Is Your Prayer Language Fraudulent?

jiminpa

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He obviously had a bad experience with this subject. Let him rant, for that is what he is doing. All these forums have people with bad experiences with tongues. We won't ease their qualms with all our postings. :)
I doubt that. He just loves his traditions and doctrines and feels compelled to put down biblical doctrines.
 
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topher694

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I doubt that. He just loves his traditions and doctrines and feels compelled to put down biblical doctrines.
I've found that people who feel the need to go to these lengths, who won't let it go, who twist, mock, ridicule, and deflect the way we've seen here, often do so from a place of insecurity. The "debate/argument" makes them feel important which is why they cannot let it go.

What someone else says on the internet is not going to challenge who I am or what I believe. I'll put forth my thoughts, answer some questions, but I rarely go into great detail and back & forth unless it is coming from a place of sincere inquiry. Yet notice how when the conversation seems to be winding down folks like this seem to find the smallest little detail to exploit (this is where the twisting of words often comes in) to rekindle the debate, then continue to spew all the same opinions and mockery all over again.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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glossolalia language research

Basically, get a copy of scripture in a language that is not likely to be known in your area. Play it for all those who claim the gift of interpretation. You will not find a single person who gets the interpretation correct. This is a linguistic fact.

"In almost all instances, linguists are confident that the samples of T-speech represent no known natural language and in fact no language that was ever spoken or ever will be spoken by human beings as their native tongue. The phonological structure is untypical of natural languages. Some samples of T-speech, however, are more complex and cannot be clearly distinguished from a natural language on these grounds.15" age 372
“Glossolalia: Analyses of Selected Aspects of Phonology and Morphology,” M.A. thesis, University of Texas, 1967, p. 95" (Linguistic and Sociological Analyses of Modern Tongues-Speaking: Their Contributions and Limitations

by Vern S. Poythress

[Published in the Westminster Theological Journal 42/2 (1980) 367-388. Reprinted in Speaking in Tongues: A Guide to Research on Glossolalia. Watson E. Mills. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1986. Pp. 469-489.)


Just google: Glossolalia in Contemporary Linguistic Study or google Samarin, Tongues

The highly respected 1972 study of John P. Kildahl (The Psychology of Speaking in Tongues) concludes that "from a linguistic point of view, religiously inspired glossolalic utterances have the same general characteristics as those that are not religiously inspired." In fact, glossolalia is a "human phenomenon, not limited to Christianity nor even to religious behavior." (Dictionary of Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements by Spittler, P. 340).

Experts in the field of linguistics have diligently studied the phenomenon of glossolalia over a period of many years. One of the early investigations was made in the early 1960's by Eugene A. Nida. He provided a detailed list of reasons why glossolalia cannot be human language. Another early study, that of W.A. Wolfram in the year 1966, also concluded that glossolalia lacks the basic elements of human language as a system of coherent communication.

In a massive study of glossolalia from a linguistic perspective by Professor William J. Samarin of the University of Toronto's Department of Linguistics published after more than a decade of careful research, he rejected the view that glossolalia is xenoglossia, i.e. some foreign language that could be understood by another person who knew that language. Samarin concluded that glossolalia is a "pseudo-language." He defined glossolalia as "unintelligible babbling speech that exhibits superficial phonological similarity to language, without having consistent syntagmatic structure and that is not systematically derived from or related to known language." (William J. Samarin, "Variation and Variables in Religious Glossolalia," Language in Society, ed. Dell Haymes, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1972 pgs. 121-130)

Felicitas D. Goodman, a psychological anthropologist and linguist, engaged in a study of various English - Spanish - and Mayan-speaking Pentecostal communities in the United States and Mexico. She compared tape recordings of non-Christian rituals from Africa, Borneo, Indonesia and Japan as well. She published her results in 1972 in an extensive monograph (Speaking in Tongues: A Cross-Cultural Study in Glossolalia by Felecitas D. Goodman, University of Chicago Press, 1972).

Goodman concludes that "when all features of glossolalia were taken into consideration--that is, the segmental structure (such as sounds, syllables, phrases) and its suprasegmental elements (namely, rhythm, accent, and especially overall intonation)-- she concluded that there is no distinction in glossolalia between Christians and the followers of non-Christian (pagan) religions. The "association between trance and glossolalia is now accepted by many researchers as a correct assumption," writes Goodman in the prestigious Encyclopedia of Religion (1987).

Goodman also concludes that glossolalia "is, actually, a learned behavior, learned either unawarely or, sometimes consciously." Others have previously pointed out that direct instruction is given on how to "speak in tongues," ie. how to engage in glossolalia.

In fact, it has been found that the "speaking in tongues" practiced in Christian churches and by individual Christians is identical to the chanting language of those who practice voodoo on the darkest continents of this world.

Let us briefly examine the results of eight linguists:

Eugene A. Nida, Secretary of Translations for the American Bible Society and world renowned expert in linguistics, concluded from his studies that the phonemic strata indicates that the phonomes of glossolalic utterances are closely associated with the language background of the speaker's native language.7

Felicitas D. Goodman made phonetic analysis of glossolalia from recordings she taped for her Master's Degree in Mexico and different sections of the United States. She concludes that the glossolalia she analyzed was not productive and noncommunicative.8

James Jaquith from Washington University in his research among English speaking tongue-speakers concludes that "There is no evidence that these glossolalic utterances have been generated by constituent subcodes of any natural language other than English."9

Ernest Bryant and Daniel O'Connell of St. Louis University studied nine tapes of glossolalia taken from among their respondents. The results of their studies proved that "all glossolalic phonemes are within the normal phonemic repertoire of the native speaker of English."10 He says, "If a foreign language system were used a much greater divergence of phonemes would be expected, but the opposite is the case."

Dr. Donald Larson of Bethel College in St. Paul, Minnesota, began analyzing glossolalic samples in Toronto, Canada, in 1957. Since then he has analyzed many samples and observed glossolalic behavior in different parts of the world. His research also concludes that the phonological features of the native speaker's language carried over into his glossolalia experience.11

In a letter to Dr, William Welmers of U.C.L.A., I asked him, "In your studies of modern glossolalia have you detected any known language?" His reply was, "In short, absolutely not." He goes on to say that "Glossolalic utterances are consistently in important respects unlike human languages. They are characterized by a great deal of recurrences of closely similar sequences of syllables and usually employ a restricted number of different sounds." Dr. Welmers said that the same thing is true of hundreds of other utterances studied by Christian linguistics of his acquaintance.12

Dr. Samarin, by far the most thorough, says, "There is no mystery about glossolalia. Tape recorded samples are easy to obtain and to analyze. They always turn out to be the same things: strings of syllables made up of sounds taken from among all those that the speaker knows, put together more or less haphazardly but which nevertheless emerge as word-like or sentence-like units.13

F. Goodman, "Phonetic Analysis of Glossolalia in Four Cultural Settings," Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion (1969), Pages 227 to 239.
F. Goodman, "Speaking in Tongues. A Cross-Cultural Study of Glossolalia," University of Chicago Press, (1972).
W. Samarin, "Tongues of Men and Angels. The Religious Language of Pentecostalism," Macmillan (1972).
W. Samarin, "Variation and Variables in Religious Glossolalia," Language in Society, (1972), 1:121-130.
W. Samarin, "Glossolalia as Regressive Speech," Language and Speech (1973), 16:77-89.
W. Samarin, "Review of Goodman (1972)," Language (1974), 5:207-213.
D. J. Janes, "Glossolalia: The Gift of Gibberish," available at the Institute for First Amendment Studies
J.G. Melton, Ed., "The Encyclopedia of American Religions," Volume 1, Triumph Books, Tarrytown, NY, (1991), Page 41 to 47.
Jussi Karlgren, "Speaking in tongues," The Linguist List, #6.385. A compilation of responses by linguists to a question on the structure of Glossolalia.
Jeff Wehr, "Speaking in Tongues," Our Firm Foundation, Vol. 11, #11, 1996-NOV-11.
Steve Paulson, "Divining the Brain," Templeton-Cambridge Journalism, 2006-SEP-20,
Andrew Newberg, Nancy Wintering, Donna Morgan, and Mark Waldman, "The Measurement of Regional Cerebral Blood Flow During Glossolalia: a Preliminary SPECT Study." Psychiatry Research: Neuroimaging for 2006-NOV. This is the official publication of the International Society for Neuroimaging in Psychiatry.
"Language Center of the Brain Is Not Under the Control of Subjects Who 'Speak in Tongues'," University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, 2006-OCT-30,


Kildahl (1975) points out that:

"There are no reported instances of a glossolalist speaking a language which was then literally translated by an expert in that language…"

Malony & Lovekin (1985:5) conclude:

"Although tongue speakers often claim that their new language is French or Italian or Spanish, and so on – languages they never knew before – scientific studies to date have not confirmed their claims."

T. H. Spoerril has described this speech as "unsemantical conglomerations of sounds" and "as sound externalized without sense which sometimes produces the impression of coherent speech." The terms "unintelligible," "meaningless," and "jibberish" have also been applied to the entities representing this type of speech.
Boisen, A. T. Religion in Crisis and Custom: A sociological and Psychological study. New York, Harper, 1955.

On Youtube: Creationist Study, Disproves Glossolalia As Language.

Why did Jesus forbid prayer with babbling/long repetitions if he was going to give it as a special gift?

“And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition (battalogeó/battalogesete) as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.” (Mat 6:7)

If modern tongues are the same as those in Acts, why is there no verifiable xenoglossy?

“devout men from every nation under heaven” (Acts 2:5) around the first tongue speakers clearly stated “we hear them in our own tongues” (Acts 2:11).

If glossolalia is a real language, why are different interpretations given for the same phrase?

“Interpretations do in fact take place, but they are usually pious exhortations in the language of the group where the glossic utterances are made. They are often strikingly longer or shorter than the glossic utterance.” (1)

“I have heard the same glossolalic phrases repeated by the same glossolalist in different services, but each time the identical glossolalic utterances are given a different translation.“ (4)

“the interpreters gave different meanings to identical words in the same set of words. When confronted with this inconsistency, the interpreters simply said, ‘God gave different interpretations.'” (14, 23)

Why is Priming the Pump needed in Pentecostal training? I once visited Happy Church in Denver, CO. They hearded non-tongue speakers into a room and said, repeat after me. I asked what this this all about and they called it priming the pump.
I have met many people who have had the same thing happen to them in different churches in different cities.

"
A variety of linguistic analyses of glossolalia (the religious phenomenon of “speaking in tongues”) were performed to determine both the extent to which glossolalia is language-like and the extent to which it is linguistically dependent upon the glossolalist's native language. The results indicate the glossolalia is, in more ways than not, both language-like and unlike the speaker's native language. These results are contrary both to earlier studies of glossolalia and to the predictions of current psycholinguistic theory. The implication is that glossolalia manifests a unique sort of speech encoding which cannot now be, but must eventually be, accounted for by psycholinguistic theory."
(A linguistic analysis of glossolalia: Evidence of unique psycholinguistic processing
Michael T. Motley)


1 Timothy 6:20,

“O Timothy, keep that which is committed to your trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings…”

1 Corinthians 14:19-20 “Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. 20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.”

google Glossolalia Project for more research.

Glossolalia and Linguistic Alterity: The Ontology of Ineffable Speech
Evandro Bonfim

A linguistic analysis of a corpus of glossolalia
Speer, Blanche Corder, 1922-


Journal of Contemporary Religion, Vol. 19, No. 2, 2004 pp. 171–184
Glossolalia and Altered States of Consciousnessin two New Zealand Religious Movements

"Abstract
In nine tape-recorded samples of glossolalia, there is a remarkably low correlation with English samples from the same Ss, ascribable primarily to variation in vowel frequency. Nonetheless, all glossolalic phonemes are within the normal phonemic repertoire of native speakers of English. There is a divergence of syllables per pause rates between glossolalia and English. Optional articulatory choices characteristic of glossolalic samples can evidently be studied by means of accepted scientific procedures independently of theological or religious explication."(A phonemic analysis of nine samples of glossolalic speech
Ernest BryantDaniel O’Connell)


Tags: glossolalia, language, research, tongues

linguists Glossolalia research - Norton Safe Search

Google

SPEAKING IN TONGUES: Glossia and Xenoglossia. scientific studies

Brain scans are the most interesting to tongue speakers.

"Tongues and Language: Renewing the Linguistic Study of Glossolalia Matthew Wolf Introduction Are tongues ‘language’? For most people who speak in tongues, the answer is a simple yes. Some tongues-speakers might qualify their answer by suggesting that they may be heavenly languages; others might profess not to know. 21 Yet, for the most part, linguists have concluded that Pentecostal tongues (usually called glossolalia in linguistic research) are not language. Summary statements such as the following are common in the literature: Glossolalia is of greater social and psychological than linguistic interest, since the vocalizations do not constitute language. 22 When we comprehend what language is, we must conclude that no glossa, no matter how well constructed, is a specimen of human language. 23 In spite of superfi cial similarities, glossolalia is fundamentally not language. 24"
James K.A. Smith

The linguistic and non-linguistic aspects of glossolalia and xenoglossia

[Published in the Westminster Theological Journal 42/2 (1980) 367-388. Reprinted in Speaking in Tongues: A Guide to Research on Glossolalia. Watson E. Mills. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1986. Pp. 469-489. Used with permission.]
Linguistic and Sociological Analyses of Modern Tongues-Speaking: Their Contributions and Limitations


A Linguist Looks at Glossolalia
Frederick Diaz

-pastor of the University church, East Lansing, Michigan, and a doctoral candidate at Michigan State University at the time this article was written
A Linguist Looks at Glossolalia - Ministry Magazine

Is there a systematic exegetical with historical sources Theology on "tongues" to request from a library?
 
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Daniel Marsh

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I believe in looking at subjects from all angles. That includes the research done on a topic.

Other research I have not had the time to study in depth.

Our results therefore demonstrated a substantial difference in the mentalizing activity of glossolalists (generalized hypermentalization) and patients with schizophrenia (both hypo- and hypermentalization).
https://psyarxiv.com/h85kp/
The Religious Brain: A General Introduction to the Experimental Neuroscience of Religion in: Method & Theory in the Study of Religion Volume 21 Issue 3 (2009)
Functional Neuroimaging Studies of Emotional Self-Regulation and Spiritual Experiences
Error - Cookies Turned Off

Abstract
Glossolalia (or “speaking in tongues”) is an unusual mental state that has great personal and religious meaning. Glossolalia is experienced as a normal and expected behavior in religious prayer groups in which the individual appears to be speaking in an incomprehensible language. This is the first functional neuroimaging study to demonstrate changes in cerebral activity during glossolalia. The frontal lobes, parietal lobes, and left caudate were most affected.
The measurement of regional cerebral blood flow during glossolalia: A preliminary SPECT study - ScienceDirect
Cerebral blood flow during the complex vocalization task of glossolalia
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...gatherings/links/559564a808ae5d8f3930f03e.pdf

Combined, these data suggest glossolalia experience is associated with increased physiological stress during worship and reduced stress and arousal beyond the worship context.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/2153599X.2011.639659
https://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2010/PSCF6-10Jones.pdf

This paper provides an example of the application of neuropastoral care and counseling using neuroscience research on glossolalia, that is, speaking in tongues as practiced in Pentecostal Christianity. The paper is based in part on a 2006 article by Andrew Newberg and assesses glossolalia's biogenic, psychogenic, and theogenic dimensions. The assessment concludes glossolalia is an implicitly learned sacred behavior. Unconsciously learned fears may interfere with the practice of glossolalia. A person, from a Pentecostal Christian background, might see this inability as an act of disobedience or a lack of faith. In such cases, verbal counseling would be of limited assistance. Neuropastoral care and counseling responses begin with reassurance followed by cognitive behavioral interventions such as passive extinction, cognitive emotion regulation strategies, and guided imagery.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08854726.2010.492698
Glossolalia influences on stress response among Apostolic Pentecostals - ProQuest
The role of the extrapersonal brain systems in religious activity - ScienceDirect
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-9744.2004.00627.x
http://www.iscast.org/journal/articles/Wood_A_2014-11_neuroimaging_and_sense.pdf


This paper presents a case series with preliminary data regarding the neurophysiological effects of specific prayer practices associated with the Islamic religion. Such practices, like other prayer practices, are likely associated with several coordinated cognitive activities and a complex pattern of brain physiology. However, there may also be changes specific to the goals of Islamic prayer which has, as its most fundamental concept, the surrendering of one’s self to God. To evaluate Islamic prayer practices, we measured changes in cerebral blood flow (CBF) using single photon emission computed tomography (SPECT) in three Islamic individuals while practicing two different types of Islamic prayer. In this case series, intense Islamic prayer practices generally showed decreased CBF in the prefrontal cortex and related frontal lobe structures, and the parietal lobes. However, there were also several regions that differed between the two types of prayer practices including increased CBF in the caudate nucleus, insula, thalamus, and globus pallidus. These patterns also appear distinct from concentrative techniques in which an individual focuses on a particular idea or object. It is hypothesized that the changes in brain activity may be associated with feelings of “surrender” and “connectedness with God” described to be experienced during these intense Islamic prayer practices. Overall, these results suggest that several coordinated cognitive processes occur during intense Islamic prayer. Methodological issues and implications of the results are also discussed.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0928425715000182
https://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2010/PSCF6-10Seybold.pdf
https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.e...f39e29ca99409818a26a4ddff602ee2fb35d850e50bed
https://books.google.com/books?hl=e...8YwVNtNNHacNY4PTAiXuQbDVw#v=onepage&q&f=false

I think these only show correlation, not cause.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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I've found that people who feel the need to go to these lengths, who won't let it go, who twist, mock, ridicule, and deflect the way we've seen here, often do so from a place of insecurity. The "debate/argument" makes them feel important which is why they cannot let it go.

What someone else says on the internet is not going to challenge who I am or what I believe. I'll put forth my thoughts, answer some questions, but I rarely go into great detail and back & forth unless it is coming from a place of sincere inquiry. Yet notice how when the conversation seems to be winding down folks like this seem to find the smallest little detail to exploit (this is where the twisting of words often comes in) to rekindle the debate, then continue to spew all the same opinions and mockery all over again.

deposit (a document) into a pigeonhole.
"he pigeonholed his charts and notes"

Sounds like you are just putting people in pigeonholes.

images
 
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Daniel Marsh

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cognitive-dissonance.jpg

I've found that people who feel the need to go to these lengths, who won't let it go, who twist, mock, ridicule, and deflect the way we've seen here, often do so from a place of insecurity. The "debate/argument" makes them feel important which is why they cannot let it go.

What someone else says on the internet is not going to challenge who I am or what I believe. I'll put forth my thoughts, answer some questions, but I rarely go into great detail and back & forth unless it is coming from a place of sincere inquiry. Yet notice how when the conversation seems to be winding down folks like this seem to find the smallest little detail to exploit (this is where the twisting of words often comes in) to rekindle the debate, then continue to spew all the same opinions and mockery all over again.

I am dealing with the evidence of sound exegesis and other areas of research, you two are not.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Romans 8:26 New Revised Standard Version,
26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but that very Spirit intercedes with sighs too deep for words.

Romans 8:26 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
26 Also, the Spirit helps us. We are very weak, but the Spirit helps us with our weakness. We don’t know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit himself speaks to God for us. He begs God for us, speaking to him with feelings too deep for words.

Romans 8:26-27 J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
This is not mere theory—the Spirit helps us to find it true
26-27 The Spirit of God not only maintains this hope within us, but helps us in our present limitations. For example, we do not know how to pray worthily as sons of God, but his Spirit within us is actually praying for us in those agonising longings which never find words. And God who knows the heart’s secrets understands, of course, the Spirit’s intention as he prays for those who love God.

Romans 8:26-28 The Message (MSG)
26-28 Meanwhile, the moment we get tired in the waiting, God’s Spirit is right alongside helping us along. If we don’t know how or what to pray, it doesn’t matter. He does our praying in and for us, making prayer out of our wordless sighs, our aching groans. He knows us far better than we know ourselves, knows our pregnant condition, and keeps us present before God. That’s why we can be so sure that every detail in our lives of love for God is worked into something good.

Romans 8:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

From Commentaries:

With groanings which cannot be uttered.—When the Christian’s prayers are too deep and too intense for words, when they are rather a sigh heaved from the heart than any formal utterance, then we may know that they are prompted by the Spirit Himself. It is He who is praying to God for us.

III. These divinely-inspired longings are incapable of full expression.

They are shallow feelings that can be spoken. Language breaks down in the attempt to express our deepest emotions and our truest love. For all the deepest things in man, inarticulate utterance is the most self-revealing. Grief can say more in a sob and a tear than in many weak words; love finds its tongue in the light of an eye and the clasp of a hand. The groanings which rise from the depths of the Christian soul cannot be forced into the narrow frame-work of human language; and just because they are unutterable are to be recognised as the voice of the Holy Spirit.

στεναγμοὶ of believers find expression, adequate or inadequate, in their prayers, and in such utterances as this very passage of Romans, but there is a testimony to the glory awaiting them more profound and passionate than even this. It is the intercession of the Spirit with στεναγμοὶ ἀλάλητοι—groanings (or sighs) that baffle words. αὐτὸ τὸ πνεῦμα is undoubtedly God’s Spirit as distinguished from ours, yet what is here affirmed must fall within Christian experience, for Paul says in the next verse that He Who searches the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit in this unutterable intercession.

With groanings which cannot be uttered; with inward sighs and groans, which cannot be expressed by words. There may be prayer, where there is no speech or vocal expression. A man may cry, and that mightily to God, when he uttereth never a word: see Exodus 14:15 1 Samuel 1:13.



Romans 8:26 Commentaries: In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Except that 1 Corinthians 14:2 says exactly the opposite.

Your proof text really contradicts you friend.

1 Corinthians 14:2 Contemporary English Version (CEV)
2 If you speak languages that others don’t know, God will understand what you are saying, though no one else will know what you mean. You will be talking about mysteries that only the Spirit understands.

Yes, it must be a human language you do not speak. If it is not, it is more likely self produced.
 
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I know it can be difficult. Suggestion -renew our minds. Think on Scriptures particularly when the fraudulent thoughts begin, immediately focus on what Scriptures states such as:
I speak in tongues and magnify you Lord , I speak in tongues because it's a sign of those who believe in you, I'm not speaking to men but to you I'm speaking mysteries by the Spirit, my spirit is praying, etc

(Acts 10:46, Mark 16:17, I Cor 14,:2 14-15,)

We get to speak in tongues

Do you believe in water baptism of Mark 16 for salvation?
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Since one does not understand their prayer language how would they know it was answered? And, what the answer was?

We can better serve the body of Christ by seeking some of the higher gifts.
 
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Daniel Marsh

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Except that's NOT what the Bible says. I'll stick with God's Word.
1 Corinthians 14:26-28 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Your Meetings Should Be Helpful to All
26 So, brothers and sisters, what should you do? When you meet together, one person has a song, another has a teaching, and another has a new truth from God. One person speaks in a different language, and another interprets that language. The purpose of whatever you do should be to help everyone grow stronger in faith. 27 When you meet together, if anyone speaks to the group in a different language, it should be only two or no more than three people who do this. And they should speak one after the other. And someone else should interpret what they say. 28 But if there is no interpreter, then anyone who speaks in a different language should be quiet in the church meeting. They should speak only to themselves and to God.
 
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I really hate doing this back a forth thing especially on the subject of tongues. I understand this is a very important part of a Charismatic approach to prayer , but I must at least make a clarification on what I believe Paul is speaking of when he makes this statement.

What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

This is the closest Greek translation using the Greek Interlinear Bible.

What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

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" I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding."
I understand that when I pray, I should also understand what I am praying about at all times. I also believe that the Holy Spirit dwells in me and I am praying in His Spirit at all times while I have understanding.

As a reminder, I spoke in tongues upon conversion in the 80's. It was not many years later, taught to me or even pressured on me because I am a Pentecostal it simply came out.

Be blessed

Your text sounds like it has a Hebrew Parallelism structure to me.

PARALLELISM IN HEBREW POETRY - JewishEncyclopedia.com
Parallelism in Hebrew Writing
About Hebrew Parallelism called Chiasmus | AHRC
 
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Daniel Marsh

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And, of course, I NEVER SAID IT WAS about speaking in tongues, since it's clearly not.

I have seen it used by Ignorant Pentecostals as a "Proof text", along with Acts 8:18.
Acts 8:18 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
18 Simon saw that the Spirit was given to people when the apostles laid their hands on them. So he offered the apostles money.

I have no clue that I remember how they tie that verse in to all this. Thanks, daniel
 
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Daniel Marsh

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2 huge, glaring problems. There is nothing in the Bible that says that the speakers spoke in human languages. It says the the hearers all heard in their own dialects. You are assuming that it is because the speakers were speaking those languages, and then expecting us to treat your assumption as Gospel. The second huge problem is that even if the tongues in Acts 2 were known languages, there is nothing in the scripture that declares that as the only way for tongues to operate, but Paul very explicitly says that tongues speak to God with no man understanding.
Acts 2 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
The Coming of the Holy Spirit
2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a noise came from heaven. It sounded like a strong wind blowing. This noise filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw something that looked like flames of fire. The flames were separated and stood over each person there. 4 They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they began to speak different languages. The Holy Spirit was giving them the power to do this.

5 There were some godly Jews in Jerusalem at this time. They were from every country in the world. 6 A large crowd came together because they heard the noise. They were surprised because, as the apostles were speaking, everyone heard in their own language.

7 They were all amazed at this. They did not understand how the apostles could do this. They said, “Look! These men we hear speaking are all from Galilee.[a] 8 But we hear them in our own languages. How is this possible? We are from all these different places: 9 Parthia, Media, Elam, Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus, Asia, 10 Phrygia, Pamphylia, Egypt, the areas of Libya near the city of Cyrene, Rome, 11 Crete, and Arabia. Some of us were born Jews, and others have changed their religion to worship God like Jews. We are from these different countries, but we can hear these men in our own languages! We can all understand the great things they are saying about God.”

12 The people were all amazed and confused. They asked each other, “What is happening?” 13 But others were laughing at the apostles, saying they were drunk from too much wine.
 
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BNR32FAN

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For me I just seek to love, honor, and serve God and if speaking in tongues comes then it comes. If it doesn’t then I’m not blessed with this gift. It doesn’t mean that my heart is not set on God.
 
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