Is YEC science? Is is even really a theory?

[AV1611VET]

Since this is is the only genuine question in that post of crock, I'll answer it: for the sake of the narrative of the Exodus story (since it was not a true historical event as has been pointed out many times before) then God could have done it.

So deism can take a hike?

Or are you suddenly giving the "narrative of the Exodus story" some legitimacy, so you don't have to give me a straight answer?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

So deism can take a hike?

Or are you suddenly giving the "narrative of the Exodus story" some legitimacy, so you don't have to give me a straight answer?

I guess you missed the "(since it was not a true historical event as has been pointed out many times before)" part.

The Old Testament is not a historical text. It's a collection of stories trying to explain the world to people who didn't know a thing about history at the time except the most basic and barebones of history, as in "How did the Jews end up out of Egypt?" It's not factual.

You REALLY need to get a handle on reading people's posts better. It'll make things less embarrassing for you.

 

[driewerf]

So what is the point of creating everything so that it looks just like theory of evolution, geology and other sciences predict it would with old earth and evolution premises ?

Previous answer I got for this was that God did not want us to know the truth. This being the case I asked how we could believe anything in the Bible then ?

I do not think the poster ever returned to that point. Funny that. I expect better from AV.

Let’s start here: what would be the point of God to create Adam as a man instead of a baby? The point being there are functional reasons not deceptive reasons

Platte’s reaction to the post of Homeowner is very telling. While Homeowner refers to evolution, geology and so on, Platte limits the signs of “maturity” to and adult Adam – which is way more limited of than what Homeowner mentioned and requests already the acceptance of the creation myth from the start. While that is of course the bone of contention. Platte’s answer is hence a fallacy of circular reasoning.
Limiting the “signs of a mature creation” to Adam as an adult is ignoring a whole plethora of facts and features. And it is not only that we have objects that are older than the canonical 6000 years, we can see traces of events, of history on these features. If AV1611VET has always defined “Embedded Age Creationism” as “Maturity without History”, than his EAC doesn’t describe the real world.
Exhibit A: the Deccan Traps.
The Deccan Traps are a massive volcanic feature, caused by a whole series of volcanic eruptions approximately 66 million years ago and that lasted for more than 30.000 years. Each layer is another eruption and another lava flow. The Deccan Traps are “mature”, but with history.

Exhibit B: : the Meteor Crater in Arizona. . It was formed by a meteorite impact 50.000 years ago. Again we see a “history”, an event. Fragments of the meteorite have been found, so there is no doubt about the formation of the crater itself.

Exhibit C: Bite marks on dinosaur bones . Dinosaur bones estimated 75 million years old feature post mortem bite marks of small rodents. Again, this are traces of a certain event, of something that happened. It shows that maturity always comes with history.

These examples show that Platte’s reply to just use the mythical “Adam” as an example of a mature created earth is disingenuous. Over the 4.5 billions of years that the Earth exists, many events have occurred, that all leave their traces. From volcanic eruptions, earth quakes, sedimentation, carving of canyons, meteorite impacts, advancement and retreat of glaciers, fossil stromatolites, nests with eggs, cave paintings. The list goes on and on. And the list covers the full time line of 4.5 billion years.

 

[Astrid]

Tithing has nothing to do with the fact that you have gone on record and said: "If God came down and said that the Bible was wrong, I would say that He is not God."

Your focus on the Bie exclusion of everything else in God's creation is idolatrous, plain and simple.

We see a lot here who idolize their personal
infallibitity.

 

[AV1611VET]

I guess you missed the "(since it was not a true historical event as has been pointed out many times before)" part.

The Old Testament is not a historical text. It's a collection of stories trying to explain the world to people who didn't know a thing about history at the time except the most basic and barebones of history, as in "How did the Jews end up out of Egypt?" It's not factual.

You REALLY need to get a handle on reading people's posts better. It'll make things less embarrassing for you.

Have a nice day.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Have a nice day.

Hope you do too.

 

[AV1611VET]

If AV1611VET has always defined “Embedded Age Creationism” as “Maturity without History”, than his EAC doesn’t describe the real world.

What is "EAC"?

 

[Homeowner]

"Made them believe"? "Strange talking snake"?

Your logic is flawed.

Fix it with sensus plenior.

So whatever you dream up is sensus plenior but theistic evolution did not happen because it was not written that way ?

Also that kind of messes up your Prime directive since even if the Bible does not say anything about something like human imprinting and science says it does not work that way you still just conjure it up sensus plenior and declare it truth.

Well, you do aspire to quantity in your posting insted of logic or quality so guess I should not be surprised.

 

[AV1611VET]

We see a lot here who idolize their personal infallibitity.

Anything else I idolize?

(Ya ... I know ... the man in the mirror. )

 

[AV1611VET]

So whatever you dream up is sensus plenior but theistic evolution did not happen because it was not written that way ?

Theistic evolution didn't happen because another method was used: creationism.

If someone writes that he bought a blue car, then anyone who says his car is red is wrong.

 

[driewerf]

What is "EAC"?

If AV1611VET has always defined “Embedded Age Creationism” as “Maturity without History”, than his EAC doesn’t describe the real world.

 

[AV1611VET]

The Deccan Traps are a massive volcanic feature, caused by a whole series of volcanic eruptions approximately 66 million years ago and that lasted for more than 30.000 years. Each layer is another eruption and another lava flow. The Deccan Traps are “mature”, but with history.

This is the only part I'll accept:

The Deccan Traps are a massive volcanic feature, caused by a whole series of volcanic eruptions ... . Each layer is another eruption and another lava flow. The Deccan Traps are “mature”, but with history.

Exhibit B: : the Meteor Crater in Arizona. . It was formed by a meteorite impact 50.000 years ago. Again we see a “history”, an event. Fragments of the meteorite have been found, so there is no doubt about the formation of the crater itself.

If that is true -- (that it was indeed a meteorite impact) -- that meteor hit the earth during a cosmic rebellion in space that resulted in debris being tossed around like a giant snowball fight.

That's why the moon is so cratered.

Exhibit C: Bite marks on dinosaur bones . Dinosaur bones estimated 75 million years old feature post mortem bite marks of small rodents. Again, this are traces of a certain event, of something that happened. It shows that maturity always comes with history.

That's right. Maturity always comes with history. With a few exceptions where God was involved.

Such as the Creation Week, the terraforming of the earth after the Flood, the widow of Zarephath, turning the water into wine, the feeding of the 5000 and the 4000 and any other miracles I missed.

And for the record, where God was involved, history came without maturation.

Deuteronomy 29:5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.

 

[Homeowner]

Theistic evolution didn't happen because another method was used: creationism.

If someone writes that he bought a blue car, then anyone who says his car is red is wrong.

So imprinting was used because no other method was used and we know this how exactly ?

Just as likely they had a talking kangaroo teacher. Bible talks as much about the kangaroo teacher as it talks about any imprinting.

 

[AV1611VET]

So imprinting was used because no other method was used and we know this how exactly ?

If you have a better explanation, let's hear it please.

 

[driewerf]

If that is true -- (that it was indeed a meteorite impact) -- that meteor hit the earth during a cosmic rebellion in space that resulted in debris being tossed around like a giant snowball fight.

That's why the moon is so cratered.

Luckily the Tooth Fairy came with a big pot of freshly made chicken soup, and while eating the chicken soup all rebellious angels made peace again. Nothing is so good at restoring the peace as eating a bowl of freshly made chicken soup. And the soup of the Tooth fairy is known as the best.

 

[Frank Robert]

We have History (recorded) that confirms the date. Roman leaders when Jesus was born Caesar Augustus to Pontius Pilot (among others) when He was crucified.

Historians generally agree that Jesus lived and was crucified but there is not much on anything else about the life of Jesus.

Sources for the historicity of Jesus

Christian sources, such as the New Testament books in the Christian Bible, include detailed stories about Jesus, but scholars differ on the historicity of specific episodes described in the biblical accounts of Jesus.[1] The only two events subject to "almost universal assent" are that Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist and was crucified by the order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate.[2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]​

​

Non-Christian sources that are used to study and establish the historicity of Jesus include Jewish sources such as Josephus, and Roman sources such as Tacitus. These sources are compared to Christian sources such as the Pauline Epistles and the Synoptic Gospels. These sources are usually independent of each other (i.e., Jewish sources do not draw upon Roman sources), and similarities and differences between them are used in the authentication process.[10][11]​

​

In a review of the state of research, the Jewish scholar Amy-Jill Levine stated that "no single picture of Jesus has convinced all, or even most scholars" and that all portraits of Jesus are subject to criticism by some group of scholars.[2]​

​

​

 

[AV1611VET]

Luckily the Tooth Fairy came with a big pot of freshly made chicken soup, and while eating the chicken soup all rebellious angels made peace again. Nothing is so good at restoring the peace as eating a bowl of freshly made chicken soup. And the soup of the Tooth fairy is known as the best.

As long as you don't understand, I'm sure your fairy tale is just as legitimate.

But for the record, that is basic doctrine with the Gap Theory.

 

[AV1611VET]

Historians generally agree that Jesus lived and was crucified but there is not much on anything else about the life of Jesus.

Go figure.

Especially if it's taught He was crucified sometime between the ages of 12 and 64.

(Actually He was, but that's not what the author of that factoid meant.)

 

[driewerf]

As long as you don't understand, I'm sure your fairy tale is just as legitimate.

Once I understand it, it stays equally legitimate, i.e. equally made up.

 

[Homeowner]

If you have a better explanation, let's hear it please.

In other words your only claim to validity of your chosen method of Adam and Eve getting basic upbringing is simply that imprinting was the best one you could think of ?

So much for sensus plenior.....

All right. Better explanation.

I think they had an unmentioned companion, a talking kangaroo, that thought them the basics.

We both have great explanations then. Perhaps we want to ask other people if they have even more explanations ?

This dreaming up stuff that the Bible actually says is great. Probably why there are somewhere around 40000 Christian denominations.