Is YEC science? Is is even really a theory?

[rjs330]

If any creationist had something real to,say
they'd have no need to resort to such nonsense
and falsehoods.
Presumably, they'd even be too embarrassed.

They'd just submit their contrary data,
disprove the ToE, take their title as discoverer of
the century and watch as the vast wave of
Back to the Bible circled the earth.

Instead, it's made up blather like " to evolutionists
everything is evidence", an insult to the intelligence
of anything more evolved than an ammonite.

You know monkeys and humans have some similarities. Because we are designed that way. It's as easy as that. It's not evidence of evolution from a common ancestor any more that it is evidence of design. Unless you assume it is cause there still remains no way to show that it happened the way you think it did.

But you believe it anyway.

 

[rjs330]

Therein lies the problem. If someone switches off their morality meter and simply says 'If God commands it, it's OK', then if that person believes that He has commanded them to do something, there is literally nothing that cannot be done. Whether He would ask that person or not is not the point. If someone reaches a situation where they can say, as you just did 'I have no issues with what God does', then the most horrendous acts are possible. Let's face it, drowning a planetfull of babes in arms and young children and pregnant women and the bed ridden etc is about as horrific as you can get.

And you have an escape clause. It's was story told in times way past to strike the fear of God into simple people. To convince them to do good. To not sin. Otherwise the wrath of God will descend on them. It's not actually true. It's a morality tale. And I can well imagine God rolling His eyes when He hears people say 'Hey, personally speaking I think it was perfectly acceptable'.

Someone saying that if they believe it's God's will then literally anything is acceptable and that therefore excuses them from moral determination is an abnegation of personal responsibility.

Once again you prove your ignorance of God. Did you just totally ignore everything? Was it a horrendous act? How do you know it was? Do you know all things? Is there anything about you that is as all knowing and all understanding as eternal as God?

How long do you live? Do you have all the knowledge of this planet?

 

[rjs330]

You make lots of claims, but you know what you've never produced? Evidence to back up your claims.

Evolution has evidence, creation does not. So let's see you provide some.

Ever single piece of evidence of evolution is evidence for design. Creation designed to be that way. The so called evidence for the development of the eyeball is evidence of a designer.

You name it, it is evidence that it was designed and created to be that way.

It's as much evidence of that as it is evidence for evolution. It only believed by you because that's what you want to believe. Cause there is no way to show that it happened the way you believe it did.

 

[AV1611VET]

I told you what it means,

Tell me what "planet" meant, before the rigged vote?

 

[Bradskii]

Once again you prove your ignorance of God. Did you just totally ignore everything? Was it a horrendous act? How do you know it was? Do you know all things? Is there anything about you that is as all knowing and all understanding as eternal as God?

How long do you live? Do you have all the knowledge of this planet?

Do I have to explain yet again that I don't believe any of this happened and that your God did no such thing? But what I do know is that drowning children is an horrendous act. Allowing them to be born knowing that you are going to kill them for things yet not done is even more horrifying. Yet again, I know it didn't happen so I'm not blaming God for this.

But...some people believe it did happen. And that it was acceptable. And I blame those people for thinking that. Because for them, if they think that God has commanded it, there is no act so horrifying that it cannot be excused.

 

[Kylie]

Ever single piece of evidence of evolution is evidence for design. Creation designed to be that way. The so called evidence for the development of the eyeball is evidence of a designer.

You name it, it is evidence that it was designed and created to be that way.

It's as much evidence of that as it is evidence for evolution. It only believed by you because that's what you want to believe. Cause there is no way to show that it happened the way you believe it did.

But there's one big problem.

Your position is unfalsifiable.

Evolution can be falsified. There is some evidence that we can conceive of that would prove evolution to be wrong in a second if we ever found it. A fossil rabbit in Precambrian rocks is an oft-cited example. If we ever found a fossil rabbit in Precambrian rocks, then we'd have to accept that evolution is wrong, because evolutionary theory tells us that such a fossil is impossible. This is how we test science. We try to prove it wrong. If it can be proven wrong, then we must discard the idea.

An example of this is the theory of the Luminiferous aether. It was put forward as an idea to explain how light behaved like a wave in some cases, but as a particle in other cases. This idea made testable predictions, and when these predictions were put to the test, it was found that the idea failed them. So, the idea was tossed out. Einstein's ideas about relativity came along, and they explained all the same thing, and they were able to withstand all the tests that were put to them. That's why we still hold relativity to be correct, but aether theory to be wrong.

Now, it's important to notice that "falsifiable" doesn't need to mean "false." It just means that you can think of some condition that, if this condition happened, would show that the idea is wrong. It doesn't mean that this particular condition MUST happen. It could never happen. The important thing is that we can say, "If we ever found such-and-such a thing, then our idea is wrong."

So, please tell me, what kind of condition would show that creationism is wrong? Can you tell me that?

 

[Kylie]

Tell me what "planet" meant, before the rigged vote?

Stop playing childish games.

 

[Astrid]

You know monkeys and humans have some similarities. Because we are designed that way. It's ay as that. It's not evidence of evolution from a common ancestor any more that it is evidence of design. Unless you assume it is cause there still remains no way to show that it happened the way you think it did.

But you believe it anyway.

Well, you got in misrepresentation and plain old
claims of facts not in evidence, aka making things up
or falsehoods, so you've checked those boxes,
but there are many more fallacies left to go.
Here's a pretty complete list, lots of boxes to check.

Master List of Logical Fallacies

And there's more to intellectual dishonesty than
just named fallacies, so you'd best get cracking.

 

[Astrid]

Stop playing childish games.

Stop encouraging it

 

[Kylie]

Stop encouraging it

I'm not. He keeps running back to his limited bag of tricks whenever he is faced with something he can't actually respond to. Please don't blame me for it when AV's the one who can't keep up with the discussion.

 

[GenemZ]

Spoken like someone who has no idea what they are talking about.

How do you test your "God did it" idea? Go on, actually tell me. How do you test it? You can't. it's completely untestable. The science, on the other hand, is easily testable. And that's the difference. Religion gives us an untestable, unfalsifiable claim that not only are we told not to question, but has intentionally made itself untestable. Science invites investigation and welcomes the chance to be put to the test.

If I may offer something concrete for you? Wrong!

I was brought up a Jew. Jesus not taught in the home, let alone Christian biblical doctrines to know. I was like you in that regard. At least, that is how you appear to be in your thinking. I thought the Christians I knew were simply 'nice people' who had their own religion.

During the Viet Nam era (the 70's) I was attending college and being a musician for most of my income for a time. I had liberties offered to me as far as vices go which was attributed to the world of artists and musicians of the then Hippy culture that was blossoming.

To say the least, I got involved with certain things I soon learned to regret. I was loosing my happiness and a low grade depression was taking root over me.

At college one afternoon while walking between classes I noticed a clean cut young man setting up a small display in the main lobby. I walked up to him out of curiosity. I asked this shy man what it was he was there for. He glanced at me and quickly looked over what was on his table, and then handed me what turned out to be a Christian tract.

I read it while walking to my next class. I then began thinking to myself....

"My life is so messed up right now. What am I going to do to get out of the mess I am in? Stop eating bacon? " (start following Jewish kosher law)

I was being sarcastic because I saw religion as useless for solving real problems in life. Then... I found myself deciding to say the prayer. I simply desired to. Expecting nothing in return I said it quietly to myself as I walked down the hall. I then threw the tract into a waste basket in the lobby as I was walking into my music appreciation class.

I thought nothing of it. It was rather matter of fact for me. Then it was about a month later that I began to experience a series of dreams and visions which revolutionized my life. There was an intense supernatural sense to them. I reasoned it to be a delayed side effect from some drugs I had experimented with earlier (and had quit).

In the one premier dream/vision I saw myself running into a place I did not know. I saw faces and people. It was there where I found myself to have the courage to be confronting what had been wishing to oppress me. I found myself over coming it.... As a Jewish boy I had no idea what it could mean. Finding that place was always my hope for my future, but it was not to be found.

That place was found ten years later. The same place did not exist when I was given the dream. And, I was stunned to discover it was to be the bible college I was to attend, and after three years graduate with honors. My Jewish sister had invited me to a bible study she was having at her house. The study was being run by some Bible college students. I began a conversation with one of the students, and the next thing I knew was invited and took a two and half hour drive up to the school... The rest that happened was my certainty being made certain.

In case you are wondering? That incident of being at the secular college and being handed the tract? It was not something I remembered. At the time I never made a connection between accepting Christ with my prayer and having the visions and dreams/ Let alone, ending up being taken by others to the Bible college. The reading of that tract was brought back to memory only after attending to the Bible college for some time.


More to say. But for now... I KNOW it was God's hand on my life! God DID IT!

Not everyone has the same experiences. But, God makes it known when the time is right for it to be known.


Wishing you well.... grace and peace

 

[AV1611VET]

Stop playing childish games.

Then don't give me a definition of something that goes against the Bible, when the definition of other words in the dictionary was changed because scientists determined it was wrong by way of a rigged vote.

Had they not changed that definition, they would not have been able to achieve consensus of opinion; not to mention consilience across the board.

 

[Kylie]

If I may offer something concrete for you? Wrong!

I was brought up a Jew. Jesus not taught in the home, let alone Christian biblical doctrines to know. I was like you in that regard. At least, that is how you appear to be in your thinking. I thought the Christians I knew were simply 'nice people' who had their own religion.

During the Viet Nam era (the 70's) I was attending college and being a musician for most of my income for a time. I had liberties offered to me as far as vices go which was attributed to the world of artists and musicians of the then Hippy culture that was blossoming.

To say the least, I got involved with certain things I soon learned to regret. I was loosing my happiness and a low grade depression was taking root over me.

At college one afternoon while walking between classes I noticed a clean cut young man setting up a small display in the main lobby. I walked up to him out of curiosity. I asked this shy man what it was he was there for. He glanced at me and quickly looked over what was on his table, and then handed me what turned out to be a Christian tract.

I read it while walking to my next class. I then began thinking to myself....

"My life is so messed up right now. What am I going to do to get out of the mess I am in? Stop eating bacon? " (start following Jewish kosher law)

I was being sarcastic because I saw religion as useless for solving real problems in life. Then... I found myself deciding to say the prayer. I simply desired to. Expecting nothing in return I said it quietly to myself as I walked down the hall. I then threw the tract into a waste basket in the lobby as I was walking into my music appreciation class.

I thought nothing of it. It was rather matter of fact for me. Then it was about a month later that I began to experience a series of dreams and visions which revolutionized my life. There was an intense supernatural sense to them. I reasoned it to be a delayed side effect from some drugs I had experimented with earlier (and had quit).

In the one premier dream/vision I saw myself running into a place I did not know. I saw faces and people. It was there where I found myself to have the courage to be confronting what had been wishing to oppress me. I found myself over coming it.... As a Jewish boy I had no idea what it could mean. Finding that place was always my hope for my future, but it was not to be found.

That place was found ten years later. The same place did not exist when I was given the dream. And, I was stunned to discover it was to be the bible college I was to attend, and after three years graduate with honors. My Jewish sister had invited me to a bible study she was having at her house. The study was being run by some Bible college students. I began a conversation with one of the students, and the next thing I knew was invited and took a two and half hour drive up to the school... The rest that happened was my certainty being made certain.

In case you are wondering? That incident of being at the secular college and being handed the tract? It was not something I remembered. At the time I never made a connection between accepting Christ with my prayer and having the visions and dreams/ Let alone, ending up being taken by others to the Bible college. The reading of that tract was brought back to memory only after attending to the Bible college for some time.


More to say. But for now... I KNOW it was God's hand on my life! God DID IT!

Not everyone has the same experiences. But, God makes it known when the time is right for it to be known.


Wishing you well.... grace and peace

This does not answer my question. I'm not interested in your personal experiences, I'm interested in you providing evidence to back up your claim that creationism is the correct explanation for what we see.

Can you answer my question or not?

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm not. He keeps running back to his limited bag of tricks whenever he is faced with something he can't actually respond to. Please don't blame me for it when AV's the one who can't keep up with the discussion.

LOL -- solid aurum.

 

[Kylie]

Then don't give me a definition of something that goes against the Bible, when the definition of other words in the dictionary was changed because scientists determined it was wrong by way of a rigged vote.

Had they not changed that definition, they would not have been able to achieve consensus of opinion; not to mention consilience across the board.

I don't care if you don't like it because it disagrees with your preconceived ideas. If the scientists' definition of abiogenesis goes against what you've decided to be true, then it doesn't matter, because those scientists aren't basing their work around your ideas. All you are doing is taking what they have done, misrepresent it for your own purposes, and then act like you've made some important point. And then when you are called out on it, you running to one of your tired old tricks as though that justifies your intellectual dishonest of misrepresenting the work of scientists for your own gain.

 

[AV1611VET]

I don't care if you don't like it because it disagrees with your preconceived ideas. If the scientists' definition of abiogenesis goes against what you've decided to be true, then it doesn't matter, because those scientists aren't basing their work around your ideas. All you are doing is taking what they have done, misrepresent it for your own purposes, and then act like you've made some important point. And then when you are called out on it, you running to one of your tired old tricks as though that justifies your intellectual dishonest of misrepresenting the work of scientists for your own gain.

Scientists are crooks when they need to be, and history bears that out.

They'll lie, cheat, ignore, and manipulate data to get their desired result, if the price is right.

So I'm going to take your post with a grain of salt.

 

[Kylie]

Scientists are crooks when they need to be, and history bears that out.

They'll lie, cheat, ignore, and manipulate data to get their desired result, if the price is right.

So I'm going to take your post with a grain of salt.

Oh, and you never misrepresent reality, do you?

 

[AV1611VET]

Oh, and you never misrepresent reality, do you?

I try not to, but science sure does, when they truncate 99.999% of it by denying the spiritual world.

 

[Homeowner]

I try not to, but science sure does, when they truncate 99.999% of it by denying the spiritual world.

So not being able to confirm something is equal to denying it ? Are you denying existence of Hindu gods by saying that you have no scientific proof of them ?

Is that a denial or simply statement of fact ?

 

[GenemZ]

This does not answer my question. I'm not interested in your personal experiences, I'm interested in you providing evidence to back up your claim that creationism is the correct explanation for what we see.

Can you answer my question or not?

I am not a a young earth creationist.

I learned from scholars who taught Genesis from the Hebrew. Not English translations. Certain ancients that knew and studied the Hebrew text would have been matter of fact about it when science finally caught up and discovered there had been other worlds created before this one. The ancients did not understand what those other worlds were exactly. But, they knew the Bible speaks of such a thing. So those who study the Scriptures can thank science for finally unveiling in detail what the Torah and some of the NT had been saying all along. Science verified the Bible.

If interested? Online a free book is offered for reading on the subject.
Written by a scientist, no less.

Without Form and Void - Frontpage

Please note in the chapter listing the title of the first chapter.

grace and peace ........