• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Is YAHWEH andALLAH the same person?

Is YAHWEH andALLAH the same person?

  • YES

  • NO

  • NOT SURE


Results are only viewable after voting.

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,127
33,263
✟584,002.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I must say No, they are not the same, or even different names for the same underlying concept.
I agree--and for the reason you outlined. The word itself may mean approximately the same thing, but the intention or interpretation that's in the mind of the one using it generally is totally different, and that's what matters.

It's like the use of the word "democratic" in free countries vs. the use of the word in Communist nations. Sure, both are saying that the government in some way relates to the people, but letting them vote and telling them what's good for them (and therefore what will be done to them) are two entirely different things.
 
Upvote 0

WisdomTree

Philosopher
Feb 2, 2012
4,018
170
Lincoln
✟23,579.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Just going on semantics, Allah and Yahweh are the same being in the sense that the former is spoken by an Arab while the latter by a Hebrew. They have their own meaning, but it is just a different form of name people call God.

However, if Allah is said in the context and understanding of Muslims and Yahweh in the context and understanding of the Jews, then no, they are not the same in fact both are false understanding of the one and true Triune God with Christ being the incarnate and the second person of this God.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,127
33,263
✟584,002.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Just going on semantics, Allah and Yahweh are the same being in the sense that the former is spoken by an Arab while the latter by a Hebrew. They have their own meaning, but it is just a different form of name people call God.

However, if Allah is said in the context and understanding of Muslims and Yahweh in the context and understanding of the Jews, then no, they are not the same in fact both are false understanding of the one and true Triune God with Christ being the incarnate and the second person of this God.

Yes, but the question that is asked by this thread is not about the meaning of the word, but, rather...

Is (sic) YAHWEH and ALLAH the same person?

Therefore, the simple but correct answer has to be "no."
 
Upvote 0

Mama Kidogo

Τίποτα νέο μυθιστόρημα τίποτα
Jan 31, 2014
2,944
307
USA for the time being
✟27,035.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Ok. So why did you object when I claimed that those who reject Jesus as the Messiah are not considered God's children?


PS. Not everyone belongs to God.

Because we are His. He created us. If my child rejects me does my child suddenly become not my child?
He is the Father. Not seeing Him as the Fathers doesn't change Him from being the Father.
Indeed on earth we may not be 'seen' as his children (his creation). We may even choose to make another our father in our mind and by our actions. But we belong to God and end the end we are subject to Him.
Besides that we are bought with a price. So Jesus is the savior. Our refusal to accept it doesn't change who he is or what he did for all of mankind.

All mankind belongs to God. All mankind faces God's judgement.He has that authority because he made us.
The devil isn't going to be poking folk in hell. He'll have his own problems. He does not own those in hell. He just helped lead them their. God owns him too.
 
Upvote 0

Lion King

Veni, vidi, vici
Mar 29, 2011
7,360
578
Heavenly Jerusalem- Mount Zion
✟10,388.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Because we are His. He created us. If my child rejects me does my child suddenly become not my child?
He is the Father. Not seeing Him as the Fathers doesn't change Him from being the Father.
Indeed on earth we may not be 'seen' as his children (his creation). We may even choose to make another our father in our mind and by our actions. But we belong to God and end the end we are subject to Him.
Besides that we are bought with a price. So Jesus is the savior. Our refusal to accept it doesn't change who he is or what he did for all of mankind.

All mankind belongs to God. All mankind faces God's judgement.He has that authority because he made us.
The devil isn't going to be poking folk in hell. He'll have his own problems. He does not own those in hell. He just helped lead them their. God owns him too.

Your argument is not with me.:wave:


John 8:31-47 said:
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”

39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,127
33,263
✟584,002.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married

Except that I enjoy going off on the rails with semantics way too much. :D

Ooh, I don't know that that's so. Your comments were entirely appropriate.

I was just getting at this fact: the question is hinting that there are two sides to this issue when, in reality, that's not so. All that the different religions have in common when they say "Allah" is that the same word is being used for different gods. We could just as easily say that for the word "God," too. Zeus, Odin, and Amon-Ra have all been described as someone's god, but that doesn't make them the same.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Yes, but the question that is asked by this thread is not about the meaning of the word, but, rather...
Is (sic) YAHWEH and ALLAH the same person?

Therefore, the simple but correct answer has to be "no."
Hmmm...

Should that have been "diety" instead?

I have seen debates go on for years just concerning the use of the word "Yahweh", as can be seen on this thread :

http://www.christianforums.com/t7826207/

Originally Posted by CherubRam
God's personal name, the only name given by Him, is Yahwah; also spelled Yahuah. There is no vowel in between His first and last name. His name means: Life Began, or, Life's Beginning. His name backwards means: Foundation of Life. That is one reason He is called the "Rock." God is the Foundation Rock, and Christ is the Capstone.
Nonsense! See my post above quoting the Jewish Encyclopedia [JE]. The JE was written and reviewed by more than 30 Jewish scholars, that is what is known as credible, verifiable, historical evidence.
Originally Posted by Gibs
Our God's name Is represented by four Hebrew characters that is transliterated to YHWH in English. Known then as the Tetragrammaton.

Why harp on this subject here in this thread, what non Trinitarians believe?

All scholars are still fighting about it and never will their be agreeing, this has been going on for most of the years of man.
Largely because various religious groups and leaders make up their own transliterations for their own reasons and don't go directly to the source.
Jewish Encyclopedia-Names of God

In appearance, Yhwh (יהוה) is the third person singular imperfect "kal" of the verb ( הוה ("to be"), meaning, therefore, "He is," or "He will be," or, perhaps, "He lives," the root idea of the word being,probably, "to blow," "to breathe," and hence, "to live." With this explanation agrees the meaning of the name given in Ex. iii. 14, where God is represented as speaking, and hence as using the first person—"I am" (אהיה, from ( היה, the later equivalent of the archaic stem ( הוה). The meaning would, therefore, be "He who is self-existing, self-sufficient," or, more concretely, "He who lives," the abstract conception of pure existence being foreign to Hebrew thought. There is no doubt that the idea of life was intimately connected with the name Yhwh from early times. He is the living God, as contrasted with the lifeless gods of the heathen, and He is the source and author of life (comp. I Kings xviii.; Isa. xli. 26-29, xliv. 6-20; Jer. x. 10, 14; Gen. ii. 7; etc.). So familiar is this conception of God to the Hebrew mind that it appears in the common formula of an oath, "hai Yhwh" (= "as Yhwh lives"; Ruth iii. 13; I Sam. xiv. 45; etc.).
If the explanation of the form above given be the true one, the original pronunciation must have been Yahweh ((יהוה) or Yahaweh (יהוה). From this the contracted form Jah or Yah (יה ) is most readily explained, and also the forms Jeho or Yeho (יהו ), and Jo or Yo (יו contracted from יהו , which the word assumes in combination in the first part of compound proper names, and Yahu or Yah (יהו ) in the second part of such names. The fact may also be mentioned that in Samaritan poetry יהוה rimes with words similar in ending to Yahweh, and Theodoret ("Quæst. 15 in Exodum") states that the Samaritans pronounced the name Iαβέ. Epiphanius ascribes the same pronunciation to an early Christian sect. Clement of Alexandria, still more exactly, pronounces 'Iαουέ or 'Iαουαί, and Origen, 'Iα. Aquila wrote the name in archaic Hebrew letters. In the Jewish-Egyptian magic-papyri it appears as Ιαωουηε. At least as early as the third century B.C. the name seems to have been regarded by the Jews as a "nomen ineffabile," on the basis of a somewhat extreme interpretation of Ex. xx. 7 and Lev. xxiv. 11 (see Philo, "De Vita Mosis," iii. 519, 529). Written only in consonants, the true pronunciation was forgotten by them. The Septuagint, and after it the New Testament, invariably render κύριος ("the Lord").

Jewish Encyclopedia online
 
Upvote 0

Jipsah

Blood Drinker
Aug 17, 2005
13,839
4,484
72
Franklin, Tennessee
✟294,259.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
if Allah is said in the context and understanding of Muslims and Yahweh in the context and understanding of the Jews, then no, they are not the same in fact both are false understanding of the one and true Triune God with Christ being the incarnate and the second person of this God.
That pretty much says it all.
 
Upvote 0

Jipsah

Blood Drinker
Aug 17, 2005
13,839
4,484
72
Franklin, Tennessee
✟294,259.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Therefore, the simple but correct answer has to be "no."
So lessee, since some folks consider our esteemed president to be a statesman, a scholar, a reformer, and a leader who is striving to steer the republic onto its true course, and others consider him a statist ideologue whose only goal is to rip up the Constitutional government of the US and replace it with a People's Republic of some sort, then they must then be talking about two different people. Right? The real President, and the Moon President. After all, they couldn't both be talking about the same guy, now could they?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Jipsah

Blood Drinker
Aug 17, 2005
13,839
4,484
72
Franklin, Tennessee
✟294,259.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
No and if you had any reading comprehension you would understand that I said I did not read all what at the time was 5 pages.
I have to admit that I lack the patience to try and decipher a lot of self-serving gibberish, especially when it contains no shred of substance or any connection at all to the truth. ;)

I really don't care what you or anyone else thinks
I translate that to the old adage "Don't try to confuse me with facts, I done made up my mind." So noted.

I know that islam is evil and of satan
Agreed. What might have made you think that I, of all people, thought otherwise? Because I reject as ridiculous and false the fable that Muslims worship a "Moon God"? Sorry, OM, but one lie is as bad as another, and answering the lies of Islam by making up one of our own is simply asinine.

Here's the trick - the "Moon God" thing is a fraud. It's untrue. Muslims have no more concept of a "Moon God" than they do a Chicken God or a Doughnut God. Let's face it, if you'd ever read the Koran you'd know that big portions of it are ripped off from the Old Testament, which (if you've ever read it) you'll note has little or nothing to say about "Moon Gods".

Mahound used the Bible as his starting point, and the rewrote it to suit himself. So guess what? God as presented in the Koran sounds a lot like God as presented in the Old Testament. Don't believe it? Probably not, it's easier to get your beliefs handed to you by some nincompoop who believes some made up claptrap about "Moon Gods".

and no amount of phony tolerance will change my mind.
I can tolerate a lot of things, but Christians propagating arrant falsehoods ain't one of them. There's plenty of bad stuff to be said out Islam without having to make up stories about it. The truth is damning enough, so lets leave off lying lest our integrity be called into question. Howzat strike you?

It is as if someone can not have an opinion without be made fun of by many here
If the opinion in question is nonsensical then I see no reason not to say so.

It is sad that Christianity has come to ruin by trying to accept that all other religions worship
So if we don't agree with the other guy's religion, the best policy is to just make up stories about it to make it look bad, right? Even if the other guy is already trying his dead level best to make his religion look as bad as he possibly can? Even is his religion is as bogus as a $17.3762 bill? Do we really need to invent stuff to accuse him of? Sorry, I ain't buying that. Just 'cause their religion is based on a lie doesn't mean I have to lie in return.

I have said my piece and you will not see me in this thread again
Hail and farewell, OM.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

SolomonVII

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2003
23,138
4,919
Vancouver
✟162,516.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
Yes, but the question that is asked by this thread is not about the meaning of the word, but, rather...



Therefore, the simple but correct answer has to be "no."

Good reasoning.

Likewise, are Jesus Christ and the Paraclete the same person?

The answer to that must be no as well.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Good reasoning.

Likewise, are Jesus Christ and the Paraclete the same person?

The answer to that must be no as well.
Good point!

FWIW, according to this post by a Mulim on this other thread, they believe Muhammed is the paraclete. How weird is that?

http://www.christianforums.com/t2822562-18/#post22867225

u must for forgive us. We give u too much credit sometimes. sometimes the obvious is not so obvious. Let me explain for u.
The concept of "Holy Spirit" is unequivocally negated by the following verse:
"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Paraclete shall not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you." John 16:7


This verse clearly tells us that the coming of the Paraclete was subject to the departure of Jesus(p). Whereas, the "Holy Spirit" was always & already present right?
So, how could Jesus(p) say; "but if I go, I will send Holy Spirit"?!!!!
…Very illogical

.
Mughammed(p) is this paraclete. Sorry guys.
 
Upvote 0

sculleywr

Orthodox Colitis Survivor
Jul 23, 2011
7,789
683
Starke, FL
✟30,069.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Others
I agree--and for the reason you outlined. The word itself may mean approximately the same thing, but the intention or interpretation that's in the mind of the one using it generally is totally different, and that's what matters.

It's like the use of the word "democratic" in free countries vs. the use of the word in Communist nations. Sure, both are saying that the government in some way relates to the people, but letting them vote and telling them what's good for them (and therefore what will be done to them) are two entirely different things.
But then again, that is us applying OUR stereotypes of the word Allah onto people in Arabia. That makes our argument irrelevant by the very nature of it.

If Allah is the God of Christianity to the one who says it, then that is Who it is. If Allah is the god of Mohammed, then that is who it is.
 
Upvote 0

sculleywr

Orthodox Colitis Survivor
Jul 23, 2011
7,789
683
Starke, FL
✟30,069.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Others
Satan and his cohorts did not...they rebelled....(rebellion requires freedom of will)
Past tense. They are irredeemably damned. Therefore, they do not have free will
 
Upvote 0

SolomonVII

Well-Known Member
Sep 4, 2003
23,138
4,919
Vancouver
✟162,516.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
Good point!

FWIW, according to this post by a Mulim on this other thread, they believe Muhammed is the paraclete. How weird is that?

http://www.christianforums.com/t2822562-18/#post22867225

u must for forgive us. We give u too much credit sometimes. sometimes the obvious is not so obvious. Let me explain for u.
The concept of "Holy Spirit" is unequivocally negated by the following verse:
"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Paraclete shall not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you." John 16:7


This verse clearly tells us that the coming of the Paraclete was subject to the departure of Jesus(p). Whereas, the "Holy Spirit" was always & already present right?
So, how could Jesus(p) say; "but if I go, I will send Holy Spirit"?!!!!
…Very illogical

.
Mughammed(p) is this paraclete. Sorry guys.

It is interesting in Islamic theology how Jesus is the one who worked the miracles. It is Jesus that was born of the Virgin. It is Jesus that is described as the Word of God. It is Jesus who will return in the end days to smash crosses and to carry out the end of days sort of stuff.

Mohammed really does none of these things, and is given none of these titles or dramatic spiritual distinctions.
Yet what is important about Jesus and all the prophets that have come before Mohammed is that they all exist solely to announce the Seal of the Prophets, Mohammed.

It is the kind of scenario that would have Batman, nay not just Batman but Superman and the Fantastic Four to boot, existing in order to prophecy the coming of Robin.
 
Upvote 0
Aug 19, 2014
24
3
✟282.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Single
Let's play a thought game here. What if Muhammad was writing "scripture" with his own hands and saying "this is from God"? There are evidences of this:

1. Failed prophecies in the Qur'an are pretty easily testable. One prophecy in S 30:2-4 states that the Roman Empire was defeated now, but would be victorious within "Bidh'un." Well, that word means between 3 and 9 years. But it took 14 years for the Eastern Roman Empire to defeat the Persians.

2. As I said before, we don't know which Qur'an is truly from God because of the variants. Among Shiite and Sunni circles, investigation of these variants is highly discouraged, because the Qur'an was supposedly given directly by God. So which textual version of the Qur'an is the perfect Qur'an?

3. It is also too convenient that a story about Christ that differed substantially from the standard could be true without having left some historical mark. Christian Scriptures can face up to the test of corroboration. There are letters written from both Christian and pagan sources that corroborate the story of Christ according to the New Testament.

4. The Islamic version of Christ does not match up completely to the Jewish picture, either. The Jewish Scriptures prophecy that Christ would defeat death in His coming. But without Jesus dying, there is no sacrifice through which death could be defeated.

.

In Orthodoxy, and Baptist circles from which I converted to Orthodoxy from, Satan is an angel. According to this understanding of Scripture, there was a time when the angels had free will to make a one time choice. Once they had made that choice, they were locked into it for life

According to Islam - the angels are a different creation to Jinns. Angels have no will - they do the will of God but Jinns are also put to the test of faith.

You're other reason is quite fishy but anyways...

1. You can test prophecies as you want but don't ignore all the ones that have been fulfilled. You cant't be seriously fishing for some definition of that word and then fishing for an account that would say otherwise - when all the rest say otherwise.

In fact hidden I could do the same to that verse to show a scientific miracle. The words really meant "in the lowest land" - and the translators did not think it made sense to translate it like that. Guess where the defeat actually took place? Yes, lowest place in the earth. It could be translated like that too - but the mainstream translated think it's a little too much.

2. I'm sure my knowledge of Islam far exceeds yours and thus I can surely say that this claim is absurd. Which textual version? There's only one textual version! Show me proof. The letters are exactly same - we can have different styles of recitation and different way of pronunciation but the text is the same.

3. Do you really know what the Koran claims about the crucifixion? I admit it's unclear as to what really happened but it says "it was made to appear so". Is this deceiving the people? No it's not. Jesus prayed to God the night before and God answered him. Why did he have to pray so much, huh, if he was god and knew what would happen? God saved him from death and thus he cheated death. The test was to see if the Church would make up their own man-made explanations of this - and they did. They failed the test. They made up their doctrine of a Lamb of sacrifice.

4. The Prophecy of Jesus was that Jesus would defeat death. Did the Islamic version of Jesus Christ defeat death? Yes, he did! They did not kill him. He was raised up and thus cheated death.

Luke 4:10-12
10 For the Scriptures say, ‘He will order his angels to protect and guard you.
11 And they will hold you up with their hands so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.’”
12 Jesus responded, “The Scriptures also say, ‘You must not test the Lord your God.’”

Matthew 4:5-10
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city, Jerusalem, to the highest point of the Temple,
6 and said, “If you are the Son of God, jump off! For the Scriptures say, ‘He will order his angels to protect you. And they will hold you up with their hands so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.’”
7 Jesus responded, “The Scriptures also say, ‘You must not test the Lord your God.’”
8 Next the devil took him to the peak of a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.
9 “I will give it all to you,” he said, “if you will kneel down and worship me.”
10 “Get out of here, Satan,” Jesus told him. “For the Scriptures say, ‘You must worship the Lord your God and serve only him.’”


So the angels saved Jesus from any fatal harm and then raised him.

Psalm 91

1 He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will rest in the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, "He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust."
3 Surely he will save you from the fowler's snare and from the deadly pestilence.
4 He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
5 You will not fear the terror of night, nor the arrow that flies by day,
6 nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness, nor the plague that destroys at midday.
7 A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you.
8 You will only observe with your eyes and see the punishment of the wicked.

9 If you make the Most High your dwelling— even the LORD, who is my refuge
10 then no harm will befall you, no disaster will come near your tent.
11 For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways;
12 they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

13 You will tread upon the lion and the cobra; you will trample the great lion and the serpent.
14 "Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.
15 He will call upon me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honor him.
16 With long life will I satisfy him and show him my salvation."


The true Jesus was saved and he had to just observe he crucifixion himself.

In fact there are so many similar verses to say that he'll DEFEAT death - not that he'll die.

Psalm 20:6
6 Now I know that the Lord saves his anointed king. He answers him from his holy heaven. The power of God's right hand saves the king.

Psalm 17:7
Show the wonder of your great love, you who save by your right hand those who take refuge in you from their foes.

Psalm 18:3
I call to the LORD, who is worthy of praise, and I am saved from my enemies.

Psalm 9:13
O LORD, see how my enemies persecute me! Have mercy and lift me up from the gates of death,

Psalm 30:1
I will exalt you, O LORD, for you lifted me out of the depths and did not let my enemies gloat over me.


And many a time in the Bible the word Sheol may be used for Hell or Death. Death is mainly symbolical.

Isaiah 53 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

53 Who hath given credence to that which we heard? And the arm of Jehovah, On whom hath it been revealed?
2 Yea, he cometh up as a tender plant before Him, And as a root out of a dry land, He hath no form, nor honour, when we observe him, Nor appearance, when we desire him.
3 He is despised, and left of men, A man of pains, and acquainted with sickness, And as one hiding the face from us, He is despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely our sicknesses he hath borne, And our pains -- he hath carried them, And we -- we have esteemed him plagued, Smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 And he is pierced for our transgressions, Bruised for our iniquities, The chastisement of our peace [is] on him, And by his bruise there is healing to us.
6 All of us like sheep have wandered, Each to his own way we have turned, And Jehovah hath caused to meet on him, The punishment of us all.
7 It hath been exacted, and he hath answered, And he openeth not his mouth, As a lamb to the slaughter he is brought, And as a sheep before its shearers is dumb, And he openeth not his mouth (the biblical Jesus said Eloi Eloi Ela Sabastani, hows this?).
8 By restraint and by judgment he hath been taken, And of his generation who doth meditate, That he hath been cut off from the land of the living? By the transgression of My people he is plagued,
9 And it appointeth with the wicked his grave, And with the rich [are] his high places, Because he hath done no violence, Nor [is] deceit in his mouth.
10 And Jehovah hath delighted to bruise (all other translation have corrupted the meaning) him, He hath made him sick, If his soul doth make an offering for guilt, He seeth seed -- he prolongeth days, And the pleasure of Jehovah in his hand doth prosper.
11 Of the labour of his soul he seeth -- he is satisfied, Through his knowledge give righteousness Doth the righteous one, My servant, to many, And their iniquities he doth bear.
12 Therefore I give a portion to him among the many, And with the mighty he apportioneth spoil, Because that he exposed to death his soul, And with transgressors he was numbered, And he the sin of many hath borne, And for transgressors he intercedeth. (All prophets can intercede)

Of course there were other gospels and apocalypses that state counter to what Christians believe but these were all discarded as late fabrications. Something fishy. Why would one fabricate some stuff like this as early as 100 years after Jesus? Look at the Apocalypse of Peter!

Come therefore, let us go on with the completion of the will of the incorruptible Father. For behold, those who will bring them judgment are coming, and they will be put to shame. But me they cannot touch. And you, O Peter, shall stand in their midst. Do not be afraid because of your cowardice. Their minds shall be closed, for the invisible one has opposed them."

When he said those things, I saw him seemingly being seized by them. And I said "What do I see, O Lord, that it is you yourself whom they take, and that you are grasping me? Or who is this one, glad and laughing on the tree? And is it another one whose feet and hands they are striking?"

The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is his fleshly part, which is the substitute being put to shame, the one who came into being in his likeness. But look at him and me."

But I, when I had looked, said "Lord, no one is looking at you. Let us flee this place." But he said to me, "I have told you, "Leave the blind alone!" And you, see how they do not know what they are saying. For the son of their glory instead of my servant, they have put to shame."

And I saw someone about to approach us resembling him, even him who was laughing on the tree. And he was filled with a Holy Spirit, and he is the Savior. And there was a great, ineffable light around them, and the multitude of ineffable and invisible angels blessing them. And when I looked at him, the one who gives praise was revealed. And he said to me, "Be strong, for you are the one to whom these mysteries have been given, to know them through revelation, that he whom they crucified is the first-born, and the home of demons, and the stony vessel, in which they dwell, of Elohim, of the cross, which is under the Law. But he who stands near him is the living Savior, the first in him, whom they seized and released, who stands joyfully looking those who did him violence, while they are divided among themselves. Therefore he laughs at their lack of perception, knowing that they are born blind. So then the one susceptible to suffering shall come, since the body is the substitute. But what they released was my incorporeal body. But I am the intellectual Spirit filled with radiant light. He whom you saw coming to me is our intellectual Pleroma , which unites the perfect light with my Holy Spirit."

"These things, then, which you saw you shall present to those of another race who are not of this age . For there will be no honor in any man who is not immortal, which has shown that it is able to contain him who gives his abundance. Therefore I said, "Every one who has, it will be given to him, and he will have plenty." But he who does not have, that is, the man of this place, who is completely dead, who is removed from the planting of the creation of what is begotten, whom, if one of the immortal essence appears, they think that they possess him - it will be taken from him and be added to the one who is. You, therefore, be courageous and do not fear at all. For I shall be with you in order that none of your enemies may prevail unto you. Peace be to you, Be strong!"

^This was way before Islam.
 
Upvote 0
Aug 19, 2014
24
3
✟282.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Single
It is interesting in Islamic theology how Jesus is the one who worked the miracles. It is Jesus that was born of the Virgin. It is Jesus that is described as the Word of God. It is Jesus who will return in the end days to smash crosses and to carry out the end of days sort of stuff.

Mohammed really does none of these things, and is given none of these titles or dramatic spiritual distinctions.
Yet what is important about Jesus and all the prophets that have come before Mohammed is that they all exist solely to announce the Seal of the Prophets, Mohammed.

.

In Islam yes - a lot of miracles are attributed to Jesus. Jesus is considered the Christ, the Messiah - the King of the Jews. He would come to fulfill his mission as King of the Jews and to unite all mankind. We depart with Christianity when you'll say he's a Savior for all of us.

Muhammad too have a lot of miracles attributed to him. Both miracle makers did miracles with the permission of God and with His Power, But what good are these miracles of the past? It won't convince someone who lacks faith in scripture. The Koran is described as the Living Miracle with all its alleged scientific, numerical miracles and its melodious recitations as well as its application (20 million or so people who have memorized the entire Quran, its daily recitation, its power to create an entire Caliphate out of some Bedouin Arab tribes)

They don't sole exist to proclaim the Seal of the Prophet. You should read the Koran for yourself and then make those claims. They were Prophets - and Muslims are told not to distinguish between any of them.

If you read the Surah of the Prophets (Anbiya) you'll know how important each and one of them are. I still can't post links.

quran.com/21
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

OrthodoxyUSA

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 6, 2004
25,292
2,868
61
Tupelo, MS
Visit site
✟187,274.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
In Islam yes - a lot of miracles are attributed to Jesus. Jesus is considered the Christ, the Messiah - the King of the Jews. He would come to fulfill his mission as King of the Jews and to unite all mankind. We depart with Christianity when you'll say he's a Savior for all of us.

That is the fact. Islam is a departure from Christianity. Christianity preexisted Islam. Many people will not see it... but there is a LOT of Christian style worship still intact within Islam. Including chanting, prostrations, a call to purity and daily prayers. Western Christianity doesn't see it, as they have been removed so far from it that they no longer recognize the value of such things. Even going so far as to call all Muslim crazy religious zealots. When all they are really doing is participating in a prayer life. Islam was created as a direct rejection of Christian Trinitarian beliefs.


:wave: I would ask that you refrain from teaching Islam here. You are a guest in this Christian only area.

God be gracious to me a sinner.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mama Kidogo
Upvote 0