Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

[sdowney717]

By Christ's death, he secured eternal life for all who believe, because Christ came by water and blood, which means when He died out poured water and blood, pointing to His death.

The Jews were remitted sins by Moses sprinkling on them the mixture of the water and the blood, signifying the death of Christ to come, who came by the water and the blood.

None of them of the old covenant were 'born again', this is a part of being in the New Covenant.

The John 3 verses of being born of water and the Spirit is entirely pointing only to the efficacy of Christ's work on the cross, who came by water and blood.

No one would have been born from above unless Christ had come, died and was resurrected.
None of Titus 3 could have happened unless Christ came and did the will of God.

of washing (water), Holy Ghost (Spirit)
5 He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost,

6 which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

7 that, being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

John 3
5 Jesus answered, “Verily, verily I say unto thee, unless a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Water baptism does not make one born of the Spirit, we are only born again because of Christ who came to earth, died and was resurrected.

What exactly does Peter say about the ' being born again '? Nothing about water baptism.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

 

[Oliveshootsmummy]

We do not have a lead pastor however I do agree we should talk to elders, my husband intends to discuss it with brothers. I thought it would be interesting to hear some thoughts though. My husband grew up in a denomination that was so anti infant baptism that it was unheard of for belivers baptism to be allowed untill late teens. But mote recently we've seen believing sincere 9 and 11 year-olds baptised. So we've been rethinking it, we certainly would nit want to be a barrier to our Son Obeying God.

 

[EmeraldFields]

Then why did you seem to be replying to my post?

Lawd, have mercy....:::smh:::

 

[Brian Sellers]

Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

Baptism is not just a symbol as some Christians claim. According to the Bible, it is a marvelous grace--a great gift from God, which we do not deserve in the least and which washes away our sins, bestows upon us the Holy Spirit, grants us new life in Christ, and absorbs us into the Mystical Body of Christ, the Church. As even Martin Luther himself put it, baptism "works the forgiveness of sins, delivers from death and the devil, and grants eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare"

"Jesus answered Nicodemus, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.' After this conversation Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea; there he remained with them and baptized" (John 3:5, 22).

"And Peter said to them, 'Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him'" (Acts 2:38-39).

"Paul . . . came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples. And he said to them, 'Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?' And they said, 'No . . . ' And he said, 'Into what then were you baptized?'" (Acts 19:1-3).

"And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name" (Acts 22:16).

"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin" (Rom. 6:3-4, 6).

"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--Jews or Greeks, slaves or free--and all were made to drink of one Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:13).

"For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:27-28)

"In him [Christ] also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ; and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses" (Col. 2:11-13).

"[H]e [God] saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life" (Titus 3:5-7).

Now there is the baptism of desire. Historically, the Church has taught that the graces of baptism can be received not only through the administration of baptism by water but also through the desire of baptism. Baptism is not a work, it is a wonderful gift from God and our acceptance of this gift is an outward manifestation of our inner faith to not just believe in Christ as our Savior but have faith in Him and to love Him. Baptism marks the beginning of our journey with Christ who said,

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments." John 14:15.

Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them." John 14:23

If one has decided in their heart to accept and follow Christ, they must follow His command to be baptized; however, if through no fault of their own, they were to die before they were baptized they are saved just as the thief was saved though not baptized for he chose to follow Christ. If one professes to be Christian,
acknowledging Christ as the Son of God, but rejects the gift of baptism then they have no faith otherwise they would follow Christ and be baptized as, Peter, Paul and even as Christ was baptized. It is clear the Apostles and the ones whom they taught, the Apostolic Fathers believed baptism was necessary and was more than just symbolic. In 256, Cyprian of Carthage addressed the topic of baptism by desire but perhaps the most complete answer was by Thomas Aquinas in his Summa Theologia III:68:2, cf. III:66:11–12.
" If you believe what you like in the Gospel, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself."
Now let us look at the big picture. When we study God's creation and His relationship with His children an interesting pattern emerges: God begins new creations with water and spirit. Let us consider the following:

The first creation came from the earth which was covered with WATER and the SPIRIT hovered over the waters and from the water emerged land and man and God’s first creation (Gen 1:1-2).

A new humanity was started with Noah through WATER and SPIRIT. The ark went through the water and a dove (representing the Spirit) hovered overhead with an olive branch.

Peter said this represents baptism which “now saves us” (1 Peter 3:18-21).

The nation of Israel was created through the WATER of the Red Sea (baptism) with the cloud and fire of the Holy SPIRIT overhead (Ex 14).

Ezekiel then describes what the New Covenant will look like and he said we will be sprinkled with clean WATER and his SPIRIT will be placed in us (Ez 36:25).

Then Jesus, right before saying you must be born of “water and the Spirit” had just gone down into the WATER of the Jordan and the SPIRIT came down and landed on his head. Again, water and the Spirit (Mt 3:16; Jn 1:29).

Jesus teaches Nicodemus that he must be born again, or from above which is accomplished through “WATER and the SPIRIT.“ After saying these words He went down and baptized people in the Jordan with his disciples (Jn 4:1-2).

At Pentecost Peter stood up at and said, “Repent, and be baptized (WATER) every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy SPIRIT“ (Acts 2:38).

Peter also says “Baptism now saves you“ (1 Pet 3:18), and Paul is told “Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22:16), and Paul writes that we are saved “by the washing of regeneration (WATER) and renewal in the Holy SPIRIT“ (Titus 3:5).
If you have faith, accept the gift of baptism by water.

 

[sdowney717]

Where does Paul mention water baptism for all those God has predestined to be saved?

Romans 8
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover, whom He predestined, those He also called; and whom He called, those He also justified; and whom He justified, those He also glorified.

It is not there. We are justified by faith, not by water baptism...
Try to find it anywhere here. Lots of people make stuff up.

"Him God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood"

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

22 even the righteousness of God, which is by faith of Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all those who believe. For there is no difference,

23 for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,

24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

25 Him God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 to declare, I say, at this time, His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of him that believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? Nay, but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

29 Is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,

30 seeing it is one God who shall justify the Circumcision by faith, and Uncircumcision through faith.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid! Yea, we establish the law.

 

[Winken]

Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

No.

 

[TheSeabass]

One is justified by the grace of God alone, by faith alone, through Jesus Christ alone, not by works of the Law. Obedience does not make one righteous before God. Obedience follows from being righteous before God, through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. Obedience is the fruit of salvation, not the root.

Grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone is a contradictory statement.

Obedience to the will of God is the way one can ever be righteous before God. Each person is doing one of two things 1) obeying God or 2) disobeying God. Can you show were the disobedient are righteous before God while they continue in their disobedience and rebellion to God?

Romans 6:16 "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

We all serve either one of two masters, we each serve:

1) sin unto death
or
2) obedience unto righteousness

I serve #2 obedience UNTO righteousness.
You have denied above that you serve #2.

 

[TheSeabass]

Who even suggested such a thing? That is ridiculous.

You posted to me "But you are putting the command to baptize as being incumbent on the new believer; when scripture puts it on the evangelist."

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, but it appears you saying the command to be baptized is upon the evangelist to be baptized for the believer.

 

[TheSeabass]

John 3 does not speak of water baptism, but rather that which is born of the flesh and the spirit. Two births are mentioned in that chapter. The born of the flesh is to be born of water. The boy is born when the water breaks and this is flesh ,. The spiritual birth is from above by God by the word of God. This is not seen with the natural eyes. It is like the wind you front see where it comes or goes, so is everyone who is born after the spirit.

when some try to twist this chapter to make it water baptism, they confound the two births and discussion Jesus gave.

Ask yourself why Jesus answered nicodemus question about is it possible for a man to go back into his mothers womb and be b born a second time, with born of water...and that which is flesh is flesh. vs 6

John 3:5--------Spirit+++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1 Cor 12:13----Spirit+++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>in the body
Tts 3:5--------Holy Ghost+++++++laver of water>>>>>>saved

Since there is just one way to be saved/born again, than all three 'born again' verse here must say the same thing. When comparing them it become obvious that 'water' refers water baptism, a laver of water. Later in the context of Jn 3 I see that John was baptizing people in much water John 3:22-23. Pharisees, as Nicodemus, were not born again for they rejected John's water baptism, Luke 7:30.

Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Born of water & Spirit>>>>>>>>>>>>enter the kingdom
Doeth the will of the Father>>>>>>>>>enter the kingdom

There is one way to enter the kingdom/be saved. Obeying by submitting to water baptized is DOING as the Father commanded (Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47-48). There is no being born again without DOING.

 

[miknik5]

John 3:5--------Spirit+++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1 Cor 12:13----Spirit+++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>in the body
Tts 3:5--------Holy Ghost+++++++laver of water>>>>>>saved

Since there is just one way to be saved/born again, than all three 'born again' verse here must say the same thing. When comparing them it become obvious that 'water' refers water baptism, a laver of water. Later in the context of Jn 3 I see that John was baptizing people in much water John 3:22-23. Pharisees, as Nicodemus, were not born again for they rejected John's water baptism, Luke 7:30.

Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Born of water & Spirit>>>>>>>>>>>>enter the kingdom
Doeth the will of the Father>>>>>>>>>enter the kingdom

There is one way to enter the kingdom/be saved. Obeying by submitting to water baptized is DOING as the Father commanded (Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47-48). There is no being born again without DOING.

There is no being born again without DOING?

What did we DO the first time we were born?

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Hold on now, your mixing up this story!

The Word says this
43 To Him all the prophets bear witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.”

But you said this
"They were still commanded to be baptized for the remission of their sins."

Can you not see how you have changed the Word to suit yourself?

Regarding baptism Peter says no such thing as you have said.

47 “Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Ghost, as well as we?”

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they entreated him to tarry certain days.

Will you repent of your error? Do you also teach others this error?
The doctrine at issue here is not insignificant.

Here is the entire pssage
Acts 10
40 Him God raised up the third day and showed Him openly,

41 not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He rose from the dead.

42 And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be the Judge of the quick and dead.

43 To Him all the prophets bear witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.”

44 While Peter was yet speaking these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all those who heard the Word.

45 And those of the Circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Ghost was poured out also on the Gentiles.

It is required of the believer, upon receiving His Word and is done for the remission of sins, creating a fully clean vessel for a complete indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Put another way, if death came as one arises from the water salvation may be assured. The reason some believers at one time sought to delay Baptism until they thought they were approaching deaths door.

"On that day there shall be a fountain opened for the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to cleanse them from sin and uncleanness.'

'John the baptizer appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.'

"and he went into all the region about the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins."

"He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

"And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
...
So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls."

"And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.'

"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life."

"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--Jews or Greeks, slaves or free--and all were made to drink of one Spirit."

 

[J Stone]

Jesus is the way. He was baptized in water; so in conclusion if you believe in Jesus. Then retrieve your first sacrament.

 

[Episaw]

Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

In most cases yes. On the day of Pentecost when the church was established, the people listening asked the disciples......

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The New Testament church was founded on three things. Repentance, baptism and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit.

That should be the basis of everyone's salvation. If it is not, why did God make it a condition of joining the church on day one?

Note I said in most cases. Obviously, the thief on the cross was not and could not be baptised. But Jesus didn't say "sorry mate but you haven't been baptised."

He said, "Today you will be with me in paradise."

So in exceptional circumstances when it can't happen, no. But in the normal course of things, yes.

 

[Episaw]

The gospel indicates that salvation is by faith apart from works.

John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."

Rom 4:4-6
"Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works"

Baptism is for those who have been saved through faith and consequently are eternally secure in trusting in Christ rather in their own performance. Water baptism, being a work, is something the saved engage in to publicly identify themselves and to pledge a good conscience towards God.

I take it that those who put their faith in water baptism to save them are not putting their faith in Christ in the sense spoken of above.

That is the first time in 65 years as a Christian that I have heard baptism described as a work.

Does that mean when Jesus said to go into all the world and preach the gospel it is a work?

 

[Episaw]

And some will be water baptized who do not believe as well

Thankfully what may fool men does not fool GOD

Your point being?

 

[miknik5]

Jesus is the way. He was baptized in water; so in conclusion if you believe in Jesus. Then retrieve your first sacrament.

Thank you for the reminder

Because even as John understood that CHRIST did not need to be baptized HE was baptized

Therefore who are we to even somehow suggest that we do not need to

 

[Episaw]

Romans 10 is sufficient

Do not say who will ascend or who will descend

But what does the WORD of FAITH say:

If you confess with your mouth LORD JESUS and believe in your heart that GOD raised HIM (for our JUSTIFICATION) you will be saved

For it is with the mouth one confesses unto salvation and it is with the heart one believes unto righteousness

Romans 10 is not sufficient as you NEVER form a doctrine on one verse or passage.

 

[miknik5]

Your point being?

No point other than to say GOD sees what is hidden from men

Yet a recent poster just reminded us that JESUS was water baptized

So who are we to even suggest it is "ok" not to be water baptized

 

[miknik5]

No amount of water baptism can either bring in or deter THE HOLY SPIRIT

THAT BAPTISM is from GOD

But even Cornelius family who all were baptized by the SPIRIT FIRST still wrerbeater bsotized as an outward declaration and profession of who believed and belonged to

 

[miknik5]

Romans 10 is not sufficient as you NEVER form a doctrine on one verse or passage.

Romans 10 is sufficient as we don't have the last day as to who will ascend or who will descend

But what is preached is what should be believed and GOD who sees the heart where we confess before HIS EYES knows and is not fooled by false professions

No one needs to declare their faith to a man to be validated by a man that their faith is sufficient

Anyone who believes in CHRIST
Anyone who confesses with their mouth the Lord Jesus CHRIST and believes in their heart GOD raised HIM for our justification ( before HIS eyes where it matters most) will be saved

It doesn't matter what a man says
It matters what GOD says