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Is water baptism a requirment to be saved
- Thread starter AJTruth
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OpenYourBibles
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There are so many different opinions, theories, and philosophies about baptism it is ridiculous! But just go back to the beginning.
Mark 16:16 - he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, he that beliveth not shall be damned. There are two very simple recipies here - if you want to bake a "saved cake" add together belief and baptism. If you want to bake a "damned cake" just use one single ingredient. So what kind of cake do you get if you only use belief but not baptism??? Mark 16 doesn't address that, but I will reiterate to get a "saved cake" it takes two ingredients belief AND baptism.
Now in Acts 2 - Peter tells the people that baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is essential for them to be saved, and then only them that glady received his word were baptized.
In Acts 8 - Philip preaches to the city of Samaria and when they believe they are baptized.
Also in Acts 8 - Philip preaches to the Ethipian Eunuch and after the eunuch had already declared that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, he still needed to be baptized.
In Acts 9 - after Annanias lays hands on Paul and restores his sight Paul is baptized and begins learning of Christ.
In Acts 10 - Peter teaches the house of Cornelious (gentiles) and while he is teaching the Holy Ghost falls on them. And yet even after the Holy Spirit of God has fallen on them Peter commands them to be baptized in water.
In Acts 16 - When Lydia believe Paul's teaching and attended to the things he had taught she was baptized along with all of her house.
Also in Acts 16 - When Paul and Silas are freed from thier shackles in prison they witness to the jail keeper and when he requests what he must do to be saved, They tell him to believe on Jesus, and within that same hour he takes them to his home helps clean them up and is baptized along with the rest of his house.
In Acts 18 - Paul teaches in he synagogue in Corinith and persuades Crispus the chief ruler of the synagogue to believe and Crispus and many of the Corinthians believe and are baptized.
In Acts 19 - Paul finds believers who have only heard of John the Baptists baptism. Upon teaching them and confirming their belief he does two things, he baptizes them, and then he lays his hands on them and they receive the Holy Ghost.
In Acts 22 - When Paul is recounting his conversion unto the Jews of Jerusalem he tells them that Annanias commanded him to be baptized to wash away his sins.
All of these are the first examples of the church, and in each case baptism is a necessary requirement. In each case the individuals beleive first. Sometimes they receive the Holy Ghost before baptism sometimes they receive it afterwards, but in each case the believe, they are baptized, and they receive the Holy Ghost.
Mark 16:16 - he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, he that beliveth not shall be damned. There are two very simple recipies here - if you want to bake a "saved cake" add together belief and baptism. If you want to bake a "damned cake" just use one single ingredient. So what kind of cake do you get if you only use belief but not baptism??? Mark 16 doesn't address that, but I will reiterate to get a "saved cake" it takes two ingredients belief AND baptism.
Now in Acts 2 - Peter tells the people that baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is essential for them to be saved, and then only them that glady received his word were baptized.
In Acts 8 - Philip preaches to the city of Samaria and when they believe they are baptized.
Also in Acts 8 - Philip preaches to the Ethipian Eunuch and after the eunuch had already declared that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, he still needed to be baptized.
In Acts 9 - after Annanias lays hands on Paul and restores his sight Paul is baptized and begins learning of Christ.
In Acts 10 - Peter teaches the house of Cornelious (gentiles) and while he is teaching the Holy Ghost falls on them. And yet even after the Holy Spirit of God has fallen on them Peter commands them to be baptized in water.
In Acts 16 - When Lydia believe Paul's teaching and attended to the things he had taught she was baptized along with all of her house.
Also in Acts 16 - When Paul and Silas are freed from thier shackles in prison they witness to the jail keeper and when he requests what he must do to be saved, They tell him to believe on Jesus, and within that same hour he takes them to his home helps clean them up and is baptized along with the rest of his house.
In Acts 18 - Paul teaches in he synagogue in Corinith and persuades Crispus the chief ruler of the synagogue to believe and Crispus and many of the Corinthians believe and are baptized.
In Acts 19 - Paul finds believers who have only heard of John the Baptists baptism. Upon teaching them and confirming their belief he does two things, he baptizes them, and then he lays his hands on them and they receive the Holy Ghost.
In Acts 22 - When Paul is recounting his conversion unto the Jews of Jerusalem he tells them that Annanias commanded him to be baptized to wash away his sins.
All of these are the first examples of the church, and in each case baptism is a necessary requirement. In each case the individuals beleive first. Sometimes they receive the Holy Ghost before baptism sometimes they receive it afterwards, but in each case the believe, they are baptized, and they receive the Holy Ghost.
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david.d
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Some may argue the differentiation of Kingdom of heaven may indicate Christ is speaking of his church and it is an earthly salvation. Baptism represents the crucifixion and resurrection. That is why Baptism has always been the means of joining a church (in one form or another). Not differentiating the difference between an earthly salvation and eternal salvation makes the scripture confusing to understand, as this thread demonstrates.
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Christian39
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Baptism and the New Birth
by Dave Miller, Ph.D.
A major cleavage within Christendom pertains to the point at which the “new birth” occurs. Most of Christendom maintains that a person is born again, and thus has sin washed away by the blood of Christ, when that person “accepts Jesus Christ as his personal savior.” By this expression, it is meant that a person must mentally and/or orally decide to embrace Christ as the Lord of his life. Hence, the new birth is seen simply as a determination of the will—a moment in time when the person accepts Christ in his mind and couples that decision with an oral confession.
The passage in the New Testament that alludes specifically to being born again pertains to a conversation that Jesus had with a high-ranking Jewish official:
There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again’ ” (John 3:1-7, emp. added).
In an effort to avoid identifying “water” (vs. 5) as water baptism, many within Christendom in the last half century have proposed a variety of novel interpretations. For example, some have proposed that “water” is a reference to the Holy Spirit. While it certainly is true that John uses the word “water” symbolically to represent the Spirit later in his book (7:38-39), that fact had to be explained by the inspired writer. However, in chapter three, the normal, literal meaning is clearly in view, not only because water baptism throughout the New Testament is consistently associated with the salvation event (e.g., Acts 2:38; 8:12-13,36-38; 9:18; 10:47-48; 16:15,33; 18:8; 19:5; 22:16; Romans 6:3-4; Galatians 3:27; Colossians 2:12; Hebrews 10:22; 1 Peter 3:21), but even in this context, eighteen verses later, the term clearly has a literal meaning: “Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there” (John 3:23). Additionally, if “water” in John 3:5 is an allusion to the Holy Spirit, the result would be nonsensical: “unless one is born of the Spirit and the Spirit.”
Another quibble offered in an effort to avoid the clear import of John 3:5 is that “water” is a symbol for the blood of Jesus. Of course, no rationale exists for making such a connection. Elsewhere John refers explicitly to water and blood, but clearly distinguishes them from each other in their import (1 John 5:6).
Perhaps the most popular notion, advanced only in recent years, is that “water” is a reference to a pregnant woman’s “water”—i.e., the amniotic fluid that accompanies the physical birth of a child. However, this suggestion likewise fails to fit the context of Jesus’ remarks. In fact, Nicodemus himself thought that Jesus was referring to physical birth (“mother’s womb”). But Jesus corrected his misconception, and contrasted such thinking with the intended meaning of “water and Spirit.” Indeed, Jesus would not have told Nicodemus that he needed to be born physically (“water”). He would not have included the act of physical birth in His listing of prerequisites to entering the kingdom. That would make Jesus say that before a person can enter the kingdom he or she must first be a person! What would be the point of stating such a thing? [Would it perhaps be to ensure that everyone understands that non-humans (i.e., animals) cannot enter the kingdom?!] Later in the same chapter, did John baptize near Salim “because there was much amniotic fluid there”?
If one cares to consult the rest of the New Testament in order to allow the Bible to be its own best interpreter, and in order to allow the Bible to harmonize with itself, additional passages shed light on the meaning of John 3:5. According to the rest of the New Testament, spiritual conception occurs when the Gospel (i.e., the seed of the Holy Spirit—Luke 8:11) is implanted in the human heart and mind (James 1:18; 1 Corinthians 4:15; Ephesians 6:17; 1 Peter 1:23). The Word of God, in turn, generates penitent faith in the human heart (Romans 10:17) that leads the individual to obey the Gospel by being baptized in water (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Hebrews 10:22). The resulting condition of the individual is that he or she is now a child of God, a citizen of the kingdom, and member of the church of Christ (Matthew 28:19-20; Galatians 3:26-27; Romans 6:4).
Additional verses in the New Testament clarify and cinch this meaning of John 3:5, pinpointing the “new birth,” while also allowing us to understand the activity of the Holy Spirit in the act of conversion. Consider the following chart (Jackson, 1988):
John 3:5 Spirit Water Kingdom
1 Corinthians 12:13 Spirit Baptized Body
Ephesians 5:26 Word Washing/Water Cleansed Church
Titus 3:5 Renewal of Spirit Washing of Regeneration Saved by Mercy
These verses demonstrate that God achieves conversion through the Gospel message authored by the Holy Spirit. When a person comes to an understanding (Acts 8:30) of the that inspired message, his penitent faith leads him to submit to water immersion for the remission of sins (Acts 8:36,38; 10:47). The result of his obedient response to the Gospel is that he is saved and cleansed from past sin and instantaneously placed into the kingdom of Christ.
Notice that submission to the divine plan of salvation does not mean that humans save themselves by effecting their own salvation. Their obedience does not earn or merit their forgiveness. Rather, the terms or conditions of salvation are stipulated by God—not by humans—and are a manifestation of His mercy! When people submit to the terms of entrance into the kingdom of Christ, they are saved by the blood of Jesus and the grace of God—not their own effort! Water immersion is not to be viewed as a “work of righteousness which we have done” (Titus 3:5). When we submit to baptism, we are being saved by “the kindness and love of God our Savior” (Titus 3:4). We are being saved “according to His mercy” (Titus 3:5).
I firmly believe that before one is saved, he or she must believe the word of God, confess that Jesus is God's only begotten Son, repent or turn from the old life of sin, and be baptized in water for the remission of sins. Then, we must remain faithful until death. God bless.
by Dave Miller, Ph.D.
A major cleavage within Christendom pertains to the point at which the “new birth” occurs. Most of Christendom maintains that a person is born again, and thus has sin washed away by the blood of Christ, when that person “accepts Jesus Christ as his personal savior.” By this expression, it is meant that a person must mentally and/or orally decide to embrace Christ as the Lord of his life. Hence, the new birth is seen simply as a determination of the will—a moment in time when the person accepts Christ in his mind and couples that decision with an oral confession.
The passage in the New Testament that alludes specifically to being born again pertains to a conversation that Jesus had with a high-ranking Jewish official:
There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again’ ” (John 3:1-7, emp. added).
In an effort to avoid identifying “water” (vs. 5) as water baptism, many within Christendom in the last half century have proposed a variety of novel interpretations. For example, some have proposed that “water” is a reference to the Holy Spirit. While it certainly is true that John uses the word “water” symbolically to represent the Spirit later in his book (7:38-39), that fact had to be explained by the inspired writer. However, in chapter three, the normal, literal meaning is clearly in view, not only because water baptism throughout the New Testament is consistently associated with the salvation event (e.g., Acts 2:38; 8:12-13,36-38; 9:18; 10:47-48; 16:15,33; 18:8; 19:5; 22:16; Romans 6:3-4; Galatians 3:27; Colossians 2:12; Hebrews 10:22; 1 Peter 3:21), but even in this context, eighteen verses later, the term clearly has a literal meaning: “Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there” (John 3:23). Additionally, if “water” in John 3:5 is an allusion to the Holy Spirit, the result would be nonsensical: “unless one is born of the Spirit and the Spirit.”
Another quibble offered in an effort to avoid the clear import of John 3:5 is that “water” is a symbol for the blood of Jesus. Of course, no rationale exists for making such a connection. Elsewhere John refers explicitly to water and blood, but clearly distinguishes them from each other in their import (1 John 5:6).
Perhaps the most popular notion, advanced only in recent years, is that “water” is a reference to a pregnant woman’s “water”—i.e., the amniotic fluid that accompanies the physical birth of a child. However, this suggestion likewise fails to fit the context of Jesus’ remarks. In fact, Nicodemus himself thought that Jesus was referring to physical birth (“mother’s womb”). But Jesus corrected his misconception, and contrasted such thinking with the intended meaning of “water and Spirit.” Indeed, Jesus would not have told Nicodemus that he needed to be born physically (“water”). He would not have included the act of physical birth in His listing of prerequisites to entering the kingdom. That would make Jesus say that before a person can enter the kingdom he or she must first be a person! What would be the point of stating such a thing? [Would it perhaps be to ensure that everyone understands that non-humans (i.e., animals) cannot enter the kingdom?!] Later in the same chapter, did John baptize near Salim “because there was much amniotic fluid there”?
If one cares to consult the rest of the New Testament in order to allow the Bible to be its own best interpreter, and in order to allow the Bible to harmonize with itself, additional passages shed light on the meaning of John 3:5. According to the rest of the New Testament, spiritual conception occurs when the Gospel (i.e., the seed of the Holy Spirit—Luke 8:11) is implanted in the human heart and mind (James 1:18; 1 Corinthians 4:15; Ephesians 6:17; 1 Peter 1:23). The Word of God, in turn, generates penitent faith in the human heart (Romans 10:17) that leads the individual to obey the Gospel by being baptized in water (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Hebrews 10:22). The resulting condition of the individual is that he or she is now a child of God, a citizen of the kingdom, and member of the church of Christ (Matthew 28:19-20; Galatians 3:26-27; Romans 6:4).
Additional verses in the New Testament clarify and cinch this meaning of John 3:5, pinpointing the “new birth,” while also allowing us to understand the activity of the Holy Spirit in the act of conversion. Consider the following chart (Jackson, 1988):
John 3:5 Spirit Water Kingdom
1 Corinthians 12:13 Spirit Baptized Body
Ephesians 5:26 Word Washing/Water Cleansed Church
Titus 3:5 Renewal of Spirit Washing of Regeneration Saved by Mercy
These verses demonstrate that God achieves conversion through the Gospel message authored by the Holy Spirit. When a person comes to an understanding (Acts 8:30) of the that inspired message, his penitent faith leads him to submit to water immersion for the remission of sins (Acts 8:36,38; 10:47). The result of his obedient response to the Gospel is that he is saved and cleansed from past sin and instantaneously placed into the kingdom of Christ.
Notice that submission to the divine plan of salvation does not mean that humans save themselves by effecting their own salvation. Their obedience does not earn or merit their forgiveness. Rather, the terms or conditions of salvation are stipulated by God—not by humans—and are a manifestation of His mercy! When people submit to the terms of entrance into the kingdom of Christ, they are saved by the blood of Jesus and the grace of God—not their own effort! Water immersion is not to be viewed as a “work of righteousness which we have done” (Titus 3:5). When we submit to baptism, we are being saved by “the kindness and love of God our Savior” (Titus 3:4). We are being saved “according to His mercy” (Titus 3:5).
I firmly believe that before one is saved, he or she must believe the word of God, confess that Jesus is God's only begotten Son, repent or turn from the old life of sin, and be baptized in water for the remission of sins. Then, we must remain faithful until death. God bless.
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Ron Gurley
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There is no clear scripture that says that ritual water baptism is a condition of salvation.
Luke 10...the 70 sent out...
say to them, ‘The kingdom of God (Divine Messiah) has come near to you.’
"The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me."
...rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven."
...All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and
no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and
who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him."
Shucks...nothing on ritual water baptism for the first organized mission!
"Was the baptism of John from heaven or from men?"...Trick Question to Jewish leaders!!
Neither. The Baptizer was a prophesied forerunner and messenger. He was not the promised Divine Savior.
John's baptism emphasized turning to God and be symbolically immersed in a river to cleanse from sin.
If Jesus did not receive WATER BAPTISM from John,
he would be LACKING in the fulfillment of ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS...
Mark 1:8
I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with (into?) the Holy Spirit."
Acts 1:5
for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
Acts 19:4
Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance,
telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
1 Corinthians 12:13...for believers ONLY!
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one (spiritual) body,
whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
Jesus fulfilled PROPHECY. Jesus the Divine Messiah was Deity from birth to ascension...SINLESS!
The John water baptism ceremony was for OBSERVERS who caught a glimpse of the TRI-UNE GOD..Voice + Dove + Jesus.
This was the ~30 year starting line for which He been prepared for a miraculous ~3 year ministry.
Ephesians 4...Unity of the SPIRIT
5 one Lord, one faith, one (SPIRITUAL) baptism,
===>NOT ritual water baptism.
Romans 6:3
Or do you not know that all of us (believers) who have been baptized INTO Christ Jesus
have been baptized into His death?
Galatians 3:27
For all of you who were baptized INTO Christ
have clothed yourselves with Christ.
John 3...
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again (spiritually changed) he cannot see the kingdom of God."..."Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water (normal flesh birth fluids) and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
Mark 16: verses 9-end were ADDED to the original MSS...UNRELIABLE!
"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17 These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
Luke 10...the 70 sent out...
say to them, ‘The kingdom of God (Divine Messiah) has come near to you.’
"The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me."
...rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven."
...All things have been handed over to Me by My Father, and
no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and
who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him."
Shucks...nothing on ritual water baptism for the first organized mission!
"Was the baptism of John from heaven or from men?"...Trick Question to Jewish leaders!!
Neither. The Baptizer was a prophesied forerunner and messenger. He was not the promised Divine Savior.
John's baptism emphasized turning to God and be symbolically immersed in a river to cleanse from sin.
If Jesus did not receive WATER BAPTISM from John,
he would be LACKING in the fulfillment of ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS...
Mark 1:8
I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with (into?) the Holy Spirit."
Acts 1:5
for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
Acts 19:4
Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance,
telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
1 Corinthians 12:13...for believers ONLY!
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one (spiritual) body,
whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
Jesus fulfilled PROPHECY. Jesus the Divine Messiah was Deity from birth to ascension...SINLESS!
The John water baptism ceremony was for OBSERVERS who caught a glimpse of the TRI-UNE GOD..Voice + Dove + Jesus.
This was the ~30 year starting line for which He been prepared for a miraculous ~3 year ministry.
Ephesians 4...Unity of the SPIRIT
5 one Lord, one faith, one (SPIRITUAL) baptism,
===>NOT ritual water baptism.
Romans 6:3
Or do you not know that all of us (believers) who have been baptized INTO Christ Jesus
have been baptized into His death?
Galatians 3:27
For all of you who were baptized INTO Christ
have clothed yourselves with Christ.
John 3...
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again (spiritually changed) he cannot see the kingdom of God."..."Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water (normal flesh birth fluids) and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
Mark 16: verses 9-end were ADDED to the original MSS...UNRELIABLE!
"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17 These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
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patdee
Active Member
Interesting question.
If you were to ask every Christian, and every pastor, this question; I suggest that upwards of 90%+ would respond with a resounding "YES".
Sadly I believed that too for almost 70 yrs of being a devout Christian. The problem is I was dead wrong.
Also; you are going to see ALL kinds and a myriad of verses that say, "YES" to the subject question.
The problem is: I believe they are dead wrong. Yes, ANY scripture, that says directly or indirectly, water baptism is a requirement to being saved is dead wrong; and I hold the following to prove my thesis on this very profoundly held belief:
1. WHEN did the thief who got saved while on a cross, get "water" baptized? Huh?
2. Are we to believe that a soldier in a foxhole; who accepts Jesus; and then has his head blown off by a rocket propelled grenade before he can get water baptized; is going to be denied salvation on "Judgment" day? Huh?
3. Are we to believe that any person at any age; who accepts Jesus in a church; and then dies from any cause before he can get water baptized; is going to be denied salvation on "Judgment" day? Huh?
4. Consider a person is an atheist all his life; but on his dying bed; he accepts Jesus; then dies instantly before being baptized in water; are we to believe that Jesus is going to deny that man salvation on "Judgment" day? Huh?
5. Etc, etc, and etcetera?
Finally consider this:
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
John 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
I rest my case.
In any case, may Jesus richly bless you and yours always.
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Christian39
Member
"Calling on the Name of the Lord"
by Eric Lyons, M.Min.
Considering how many people within “Christendom” teach that an individual can be saved merely by professing a belief in Christ, it is not surprising that skeptics claim that the Bible contradicts itself in this regard. Although Peter and Paul declared, “Whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Acts 2:21; Romans 10:13; cf. Joel 2:32), skeptics quickly remind their readers that Jesus once stated: “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven” (Matthew 7:21; cf. Luke 6:46). Allegedly, Matthew 7:21 clashes with such passages as Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13 (see Morgan, 2003; Wells, 2001). Since many professed Christians seem to equate “calling on the name of the Lord” with the idea of saying to Jesus, “Lord, save me,” Bible critics feel even more justified in their pronouncement of “conflicting testimonies.” How can certain professed followers of Christ claim that they were saved by simply “calling out to Christ,” when Christ Himself proclaimed that a mere calling upon Him would not save a person?
The key to correctly understanding the phrase “calling on the name of the Lord” is to recognize that more is involved in this action than a mere verbal petition directed toward God. The “call” mentioned in Acts 2:21, Romans 10:13, and Acts 22:16 (where Paul was “calling on the name of the Lord”), is not equated with the “call” (“Lord, Lord”) Jesus spoke of in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 7:21).
First, it is appropriate to mention that even in modern times, to “call on” someone frequently means more than simply making a request for something. When a doctor goes to the hospital to “call on” some of his patients, he does not merely walk into the room and say, “I just wanted to come by and say, ‘Hello.’ I wish you the best. Now pay me.” On the contrary, he involves himself in a service. He examines the patient, listens to the patient’s concerns, gives further instructions regarding the patient’s hopeful recovery, and then oftentimes prescribes medication. All of these elements may be involved in a doctor “calling upon” a patient. In the mid-twentieth century, it was common for young men to “call on” young ladies. Again, this expression meant something different than just “making a request” (Brown, 1976, p. 5).
[Staff edit for copyright reasons. The rest of this article may be read here: "Calling on the Name of the Lord" ]
by Eric Lyons, M.Min.
Considering how many people within “Christendom” teach that an individual can be saved merely by professing a belief in Christ, it is not surprising that skeptics claim that the Bible contradicts itself in this regard. Although Peter and Paul declared, “Whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Acts 2:21; Romans 10:13; cf. Joel 2:32), skeptics quickly remind their readers that Jesus once stated: “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven” (Matthew 7:21; cf. Luke 6:46). Allegedly, Matthew 7:21 clashes with such passages as Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13 (see Morgan, 2003; Wells, 2001). Since many professed Christians seem to equate “calling on the name of the Lord” with the idea of saying to Jesus, “Lord, save me,” Bible critics feel even more justified in their pronouncement of “conflicting testimonies.” How can certain professed followers of Christ claim that they were saved by simply “calling out to Christ,” when Christ Himself proclaimed that a mere calling upon Him would not save a person?
The key to correctly understanding the phrase “calling on the name of the Lord” is to recognize that more is involved in this action than a mere verbal petition directed toward God. The “call” mentioned in Acts 2:21, Romans 10:13, and Acts 22:16 (where Paul was “calling on the name of the Lord”), is not equated with the “call” (“Lord, Lord”) Jesus spoke of in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 7:21).
First, it is appropriate to mention that even in modern times, to “call on” someone frequently means more than simply making a request for something. When a doctor goes to the hospital to “call on” some of his patients, he does not merely walk into the room and say, “I just wanted to come by and say, ‘Hello.’ I wish you the best. Now pay me.” On the contrary, he involves himself in a service. He examines the patient, listens to the patient’s concerns, gives further instructions regarding the patient’s hopeful recovery, and then oftentimes prescribes medication. All of these elements may be involved in a doctor “calling upon” a patient. In the mid-twentieth century, it was common for young men to “call on” young ladies. Again, this expression meant something different than just “making a request” (Brown, 1976, p. 5).
[Staff edit for copyright reasons. The rest of this article may be read here: "Calling on the Name of the Lord" ]
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John 3:5
(5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
"Born of water" in this verse is often said to refer to water baptism but there is no other verse in the NT which equates water baptism with birth. In Rom 6:3-4 water baptism is equated with death, twice. Can water baptism be both birth and death at the same time?(5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Romans 6:3-4
(3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
(4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
My personal opinion is that John explains what he means by "born of water" in vs. 6.(3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
(4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
John 3:5-6
(5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
"born of water and of the Spirit" vs.5 "born of the flesh""born of the Spirit" vs. 6. "Born of the spirit" is repeated in both verses. Did John introduce something different in vs. 6 or does "born of the water" 'born of the flesh" refer to the the same thing? (5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
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JESUS=G.O.A.T
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One odd doctrine would be to say, born of water means to be human.
Since only human beings can be saved as they were physically born into this current world.
However, born of water has to do with washing of water by the Word who is Christ. Water signifying being washed, made clean. Jesus is saying we must be changed, cleansed, transformed completely from what we are, which is what having a new birth is all about, become a new creation in Christ.
Titus 3, Ephesians 5 talks about this being washed with water, but the water is from above, what Christ does.
Speaking clearly about water and Spirit is here.
Ephesians 5:25-2721st Century King James Version (KJ21)
25 Husbands, love your wives even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it,
26 that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word,
27 that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Titus 3 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
3 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready for every good work,
2 to speak evil of no man, not to be brawlers, but gentle, showing all meekness unto all men.
3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.
4 But after the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
5 He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost,
6 which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 that, being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
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This response seems to be anachronistic. When Jesus said "Amen, Amen I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." to Nicodemus, a Jew, would Nicodemus have understood it to mean "cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word." Which was something written by Paul to a Christian audience several years later?
Is there is anything in Jewish teaching which could have been understood as "born of water/washing of water by the Word?"
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The answer is very clear - and yes you can be dammed for failure to properly baptize in time.
Mark 16:15 "And he said to them, Go you into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned.
Real baptism is when YOU come to a reasonable knowledge of God's truth.
Then you get baptized to show God a demark point in life where your are repenting unto total conversion, and then unto eternal life.
The "believe" part is NOT just faith alone, but a recieving a love of God's true ways of life and AGREEING with God's principles.
Hence, an AGREEING person IS a BELIEVING person.
So yes you will be dammed if you don't believe (agree with God) and are baptized (demark point)
Mark 16:15 "And he said to them, Go you into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned.
Real baptism is when YOU come to a reasonable knowledge of God's truth.
Then you get baptized to show God a demark point in life where your are repenting unto total conversion, and then unto eternal life.
The "believe" part is NOT just faith alone, but a recieving a love of God's true ways of life and AGREEING with God's principles.
Hence, an AGREEING person IS a BELIEVING person.
So yes you will be dammed if you don't believe (agree with God) and are baptized (demark point)
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spruikah
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It's an interesting discussion, and I am pleased that it has not got out of hand with people yelling "heretic!" at each other.
I am convinced that John 3:5 is talking of a physical birth and a spiritual birth, because, as pointed out Jesus himself clarifies it in verse 6.
The centurian in Acts 10 was saved and received the Holy Spirit before being water baptised. Peter himself later confesses in chapter 11 that the situation reminded him that Jesus had told them that John baptized with water but they would be baptized with the Holy Spirit.
It was hard for the first Jewish Cristians to let go fo many of their previous outward traditions. Peter found it hard to accept that God was telling him that unclean food was clean, that he could eat with Gentiles, etc. And many hung on tightly to circumcision as a necessary act of salvation.
I believe a similar thing happened with water baptism. Jesus himself did not water baptize anyone, which in itself should sound strange if He is the Saviour and water baptism is necessary for salvation. He did, however, permit his disciples to water baptize, and they obviously continued with the tradition.
However, Paul came to the realization (see 1 Corinthians 1) that he was not sent to baptize people but to preach the Gospel. Again, that would be a contradiction if water baptism was necessary for salvation.
Finally, we are so steeped in tradition ourselves that whenever we read the word "baptism" we automatically assume it means "with water" even in cases where the verse itself is telling us otherwise.
Take for example the verse most quoted when trying to argue that water baptism is the rite we all must go through to belong to the body of Christ:
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. For in fact the body is not one member but many. 1 Corinthians 12:13-14
I have always heard this verse used to support water baptism. But the verse itself says the contrary. It is talking about baptism with the Holy Spirit. "For by one Spirit we were all baptized..."
There is more to say on this, but this is probably enough for a first post.
I am convinced that John 3:5 is talking of a physical birth and a spiritual birth, because, as pointed out Jesus himself clarifies it in verse 6.
The centurian in Acts 10 was saved and received the Holy Spirit before being water baptised. Peter himself later confesses in chapter 11 that the situation reminded him that Jesus had told them that John baptized with water but they would be baptized with the Holy Spirit.
It was hard for the first Jewish Cristians to let go fo many of their previous outward traditions. Peter found it hard to accept that God was telling him that unclean food was clean, that he could eat with Gentiles, etc. And many hung on tightly to circumcision as a necessary act of salvation.
I believe a similar thing happened with water baptism. Jesus himself did not water baptize anyone, which in itself should sound strange if He is the Saviour and water baptism is necessary for salvation. He did, however, permit his disciples to water baptize, and they obviously continued with the tradition.
However, Paul came to the realization (see 1 Corinthians 1) that he was not sent to baptize people but to preach the Gospel. Again, that would be a contradiction if water baptism was necessary for salvation.
Finally, we are so steeped in tradition ourselves that whenever we read the word "baptism" we automatically assume it means "with water" even in cases where the verse itself is telling us otherwise.
Take for example the verse most quoted when trying to argue that water baptism is the rite we all must go through to belong to the body of Christ:
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. For in fact the body is not one member but many. 1 Corinthians 12:13-14
I have always heard this verse used to support water baptism. But the verse itself says the contrary. It is talking about baptism with the Holy Spirit. "For by one Spirit we were all baptized..."
There is more to say on this, but this is probably enough for a first post.
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Jesus nixed Nicodemus's question of being born again like from a womb.
Jesus also said He spoke of earthly and heavenly things and Nicodemus understood neither one, really did not understand anything at all.
So yes, Jesus would have been speaking of spiritual things having to do with being born of God from above, nothing to do with an earthly physical birthing.
The comparison is as we have born the earthly image like Adam, we must bear the heavenly image of Christ, or we will not be entering the kingdom of God.
Adding this
1 Corinthians 15:48-50 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy; and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
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Regarding washing and cleansing as understood by the Jews, this was commanded in the LAW.
The LAW was meant to lead the people to Christ as examples.
Those that were priests to minister to God were to wash or they would die.
In the OT, they washed themselves to be cleansed.
In the NT, Christ washes us by the Word to be cleansed. Read
Ephesians 5:25-27
Exodus 30:18
“Thou shalt also make a laver of brass, with his foot also of brass, for washing; and thou shalt put it between the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, and thou shalt put water therein.
Exodus 30:19
For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat.
Exodus 30:20
When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not. Or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the Lord,
Exodus 30:21
so they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not. And it shall be a statute for ever to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.”
Exodus 40:12
And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water.
Exodus 40:30
And he set the laver between the tent of the congregation and the altar, and put water there for washing.
Exodus 40:31
And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet thereat.
Exodus 40:32
When they went into the tent of the congregation and when they came near unto the altar, they washed, as the Lord commanded Moses.
In the NT, though it is this way.
Ephesians 5:25-2721st Century King James Version (KJ21)
25 Husbands, love your wives even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it,
26 that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word,
27 that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish.
The LAW was meant to lead the people to Christ as examples.
Those that were priests to minister to God were to wash or they would die.
In the OT, they washed themselves to be cleansed.
In the NT, Christ washes us by the Word to be cleansed. Read
Ephesians 5:25-27
Exodus 30:18
“Thou shalt also make a laver of brass, with his foot also of brass, for washing; and thou shalt put it between the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, and thou shalt put water therein.
Exodus 30:19
For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat.
Exodus 30:20
When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not. Or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the Lord,
Exodus 30:21
so they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not. And it shall be a statute for ever to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.”
Exodus 40:12
And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and wash them with water.
Exodus 40:30
And he set the laver between the tent of the congregation and the altar, and put water there for washing.
Exodus 40:31
And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet thereat.
Exodus 40:32
When they went into the tent of the congregation and when they came near unto the altar, they washed, as the Lord commanded Moses.
In the NT, though it is this way.
Ephesians 5:25-2721st Century King James Version (KJ21)
25 Husbands, love your wives even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it,
26 that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word,
27 that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish.
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Christian39
Member
[staff edited]
The Thief on the Cross
The Thief on the Cross
by Dave Miller, Ph.D.
Legion are those who dismiss water baptism as prerequisite to salvation on the grounds that “the thief on the cross was not baptized.” The thought is that since the thief was suspended on the cross when Jesus said to him, “Today you will be with Me in paradise” (Luke 23:43), he was being pronounced as saved by Christ without being required to be baptized. As one well-known preacher put it, “There was no water within 10 miles of the cross.” Please give consideration to two important observations.
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Christian39
Member
This was a special circumstance showing that the Gentiles also could hear and obey the Gospel. They were still commanded to be baptized for the remission of their sins.
God bless
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Christian39
Member
[staff edited]
The Thief on the Cross
The Thief on the Cross
by Dave Miller, Ph.D.
Legion are those who dismiss water baptism as prerequisite to salvation on the grounds that “the thief on the cross was not baptized.” The thought is that since the thief was suspended on the cross when Jesus said to him, “Today you will be with Me in paradise” (Luke 23:43), he was being pronounced as saved by Christ without being required to be baptized. As one well-known preacher put it, “There was no water within 10 miles of the cross.” Please give consideration to two important observations.
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