Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

[sdowney717]

The context of ALL SCRIPTURE.

We are not given all the details of what happened both in the physical and in the spirit realm in Acts 10 and 11. So we really cannot say at what point Cornelius et al were "saved." Certainly before Peter spoke, they were not, and after all the events were done, they were. For us to try and pinpoint something is reading our own doctrines and viewpoints back into scripture.

Paul said in 1 Cor 13 that we see thru a glass dimly. That is by God's design. We do not NEED to pinpoint the exact point of salvation. He controls that, not us.

And getting back to my first response to this thread - WHY do we want to know since I am sure everyone here is already believing, repentant and has been baptized. It is history.

Just remember - the next time you share the gospel and get a positive response, find water and baptize them ASAP. IT is YOUR responsibility, not theirs. If they refuse - then that is another matter altogether.

You must be born again 'first' to enter the kingdom of heaven.
That being born from above is not something we do for ourselves.
Those who believe were born of God beforehand. That is part of the work God does that allows us to believe in His Son.
This is something many people don't get. It is God who begins His work in you, He teaches us, Jesus said all who are taught by God come to Him, read John 6:43-46. Those who are born from above first are taught by the Holy Spirit and believe in Christ. There are no unbelievers who will believe unless God makes them first born again, so that He teaches them from His Spirit to our own spirit the truth.
An unspiritual person, does not receive the things of the Holy Spirit, and indeed cannot know them because they are spiritually discerned...
Note v13, 'who were born' precedes those who believe, they believe because they were born of God.
It is scripturally there the truth our heavenly birth begins with God, not of ourselves, it is His gift.

John 1
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1 John 5 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.

 

[miknik5]

Who opened the TRUE MATRIX between heaven and earth?

 

[sdowney717]

I agree...

Have any comments about what i had to say about baptism, maybe...?

Things have been moving so fast in this thread that I don't know if anyone even saw them...?

God Bless!

yes, pretty fast, hard to keep up!

 

[bcbsr]

Show me where that is stated then, and why Jesus commanded the apostles to go and baptize all nations, and why was Jesus himself baptized by John in the river if, "water" is simply referring to being birthed from the womb.

The word "baptism" is not found in his discussion with Nicodemus.

 

[Dave-W]

And you understood then why Paul was reprimanding the church at Corinth regarding baptism and why he said I don't remember baptizing any of you?

Yes I do understand. People were using baptisms and other things to generate a partisan divide "I am of Peter," "I am of Paul," etc, each one trying to say he was better than the next guy. If he had physically baptized them it would have been counted as some kind of mark that they were better than everyone else and he (Paul) wanted no part of any of that.

 

[miknik5]

When you want to discuss the TRUE VEIL (TRUE DOOR) by which a man must enter, let me know

 

[Dave-W]

TRUE MATRIX

??

I live free of the Matrix.

 

[miknik5]

Yes I do understand. People were using baptisms and other things to generate a partisan divide "I am of Peter," "I am of Paul," etc, each one trying to say he was better than the next guy. If he had physically baptized them it would have been counted as some kind of mark that they were better than everyone else and he (Paul) wanted no part of any of that.

Nah! Each one revealing right from the start their ignorance in understanding WHO
THEY WERE INDEED BAPTIZED INTO

They were....following men as if men mattered!

Men who were themselves baptized into CHRIST who knew and understood more than these babies did

 

[Wolf_Says]

I'm going to split this one up for clarity purposes.

John 3:4-5 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" (5) Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Yes, because in verse 3, Jesus said that we must be born anew. Nicodemus was confused by this and asked basically how the heck do you go back into your mothers womb?

Jesus rebuked him her saying we must be born of water and the Spirit, and only then can we enter the kingdom of God.

In context, Jesus is directly responding to Nicodemus about birth from his mother's womb, so, yes it is referring to natural birth from the mother. Nicodemus was not asking Jesus about sacramental baptism, since Nicodemus would have known about the baptism of John the Baptist, and he would ask about baptism if that is what he meant.

Jesus was rebuking Nicodemus, as stated later on in that chapter John 3:7-15, Jesus is not stating that the water is talking about our natural birth. Otherwise Jesus would not have been baptized by John the baptist.

Jesus commanded His disciples to baptize people as the sign of an already inward change.

Matthew 28:19-20 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (20) teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

You read this wrong or misunderstood it. He never stated that "as an already inward change." and the passage is read "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."

He is telling the apostles HOW to make disciples of all nations, and that starts with baptizing them.

The sequence indicates that they were to become disciples first in sequence, professing belief in Jesus Christ, then they were to be baptized secondarily, demonstrating an outward sign of an inward change. Baptism is not a requirement of salvation.

The Repentant Thief on the cross also demonstrates that water baptism is not required for salvation.

As I said, you read the passage wrong. Also, the thief is NOT the rule for us to follow, as Jesus had already laid down what we must do, be born again, the thief is an exception to the rule because Jesus allowed it.

 

[miknik5]

Nah! Each one revealing right from the start their ignorance in understanding WHO
THEY WERE INDEED BAPTIZED INTO

??

I live free of the Matrix.

If you do then how did you enter in?

What was the tradition of a first born ( Jewish) son?

 

[Rick Otto]

Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

No.
Jesus did what was required.

 

[Wolf_Says]

The word "baptism" is not found in his discussion with Nicodemus.

The word trinity is found nowhere in the Bible, yet we know it to be true. Your point being.....?

Baptism is being born again is "water and the Spirit.", and "water and the Spirit" and certainly there in the discussion with Nicodemus.

 

[miknik5]

He earned the full birthright over HIS FATHERS HOUSE

ONE HOUSE
ONE DOOR
ONE WAY

 

[sdowney717]

......what?

We are talking about the new covenant, not the old.

You are talking about how first born are consecrated to God, this is not the same thing as baptism. Is this really where you are pulling this idea of "water means birth from our mother."?

Jesus saying you must be born of water and the Holy Spirit, Paul explains in Titus as the 'water of regeneration (water Christ speaks of)and renewal of the Holy Ghost (the Spirit Christ speaks of).

Judge with right and sound understanding the scriptures.

Note please, this doctrine is not about the 'womb' being the water.

4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

The Holy Spirit blows wherever He will and they are born of God from above, without observation, meaning nothing you can see! No observable act of baptism by water.

Luke 17:20
[ The Coming of the Kingdom ] Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation;

Titus 3New King James Version (NKJV)
Graces of the Heirs of Grace
1 Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men. 3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

I challenge all to beleive what Christ says and not be swayed from the simple truth of Christ. read John 5, 6. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

 

[geiroffenberg]

Jesus said:

"
Luk_12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
"

He was already baptized in water, so what baptism was he talking about?
Specially interesting since Paul claims there is "one baptism"

Jesus was of course talking of his death and resurection. Anyone who is baptized into christ is baptized into his death and resuretcio and can live a new life...as paul teachies in romans 6.

The water does not add or take anything from this.

 

[miknik5]

I'm going to split this one up for clarity purposes.



Yes, because in verse 3, Jesus said that we must be born anew. Nicodemus was confused by this and asked basically how the heck do you go back into your mothers womb?

Jesus rebuked him her saying we must be born of water and the Spirit, and only then can we enter the kingdom of God.



Jesus was rebuking Nicodemus, as stated later on in that chapter John 3:7-15, Jesus is not stating that the water is talking about our natural birth. Otherwise Jesus would not have been baptized by John the baptist.



You read this wrong or misunderstood it. He never stated that "as an already inward change." and the passage is read "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."

He is telling the apostles HOW to make disciples of all nations, and that starts with baptizing them.


As I said, you read the passage wrong. Also, the thief is NOT the rule for us to follow, as Jesus had already laid down what we must do, be born again, the thief is an exception to the rule because Jesus allowed it.

John 13

If HE does not wash us we have no part with HIM

THE disciples were already declared clean because they had believed THE WORD which they had received

 

[Wolf_Says]

He earned the full birthright over HIS FATHERS HOUSE

ONE HOUSE
ONE DOOR
ONE WAY

I think you are off topic right now, as your posts are very incoherent and they are hard to follow, plus exactly who are you posting to here??

 

[miknik5]

I'm out of here
Too much noise

 

[miknik5]

I think you are off topic right now, as your posts are very incoherent and they are hard to follow, plus exactly who are you posting to here??

No one. To those who understand that all the lower things which God laid out throughout His Word was to point us to ALL THE REALITIES found in CHRIST

But you are still working on things and I think I have come to understand that all these things are passing

One needs to be baptized into CHRIST
No man can do that but GOD

But when GOD reveals the TRUTH by opening the eyes and ears of the heart to the knee-buckling revelation of THE GIFT of HIS GRACE in HIS SON, no man or woman who has heard and believed will reject water baptism

 

[sdowney717]

Sufficient is the Word regarding believing being what saves you is clearly spoken of by Christ.
If your interpreting scriptures to include water baptism performed by a man then you are in error, and adding on to what the Christ of GOD has said, not a godly idea. Interpret all the apostles letters by submitting first priority to the doctrines of Christ!

John 3:15
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
John 3:18
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
John 5:24
[ Life and Judgment Are Through the Son ] “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
John 6:35
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
John 6:40
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
John 6:47
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
John 7:38
He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
John 11:26
And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
John 12:44
Then Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
John 12:46
I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.