Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

[redleghunter]

Water baptism is a ceremonial work, and as such is separate from the sole requirement for salvation, namely faith.

In John 3 Jesus is contrasting the physical with the spiritual. Everyone is born in water - the amniotic fluid, which wikipedia notes: "The amniotic fluid, commonly called a pregnant woman's water"

To see the kingdom of God one must not only be physically born, but also born a second time - that by the Spirit.

The physical description of amniotic fluid is quite a modern machination. Before all these post-modern theology theories, most from the Evangelical position did not follow the 'amniotic fluid.' Don't think Baptists did either. Here is a respected older pre-modern theologian, Matthew Henry on John 3:5-8:



[d.] This change is illustrated by two comparisons.

• First, The regenerating work of the Spirit is compared to water, v. 5. To be born again is to be born of water and of the Spirit, that is, of the Spirit working like water, as (Mt. 3:11) with the Holy Ghost and with fire means with the Holy Ghost as with fire.
  • 1. That which is primarily intended here is to show that the Spirit, in sanctifying a soul,
    • (1.) Cleanses and purifies it as water, takes away its filth, by which it was unfit for the kingdom of God. It is the washing of regeneration, Tit. 3:5. You are washed, 1 Co. 6:11. See Eze. 36:25.
    • (2.) Cools and refreshes it, as water does the hunted hart and the weary traveller. The Spirit is compared to water, ch. 7:38, 39; Isa. 44:3. In the first creation, the fruits of heaven were born of water (Gen. 1:20), in allusion to which, perhaps, they that are born from above are said to be born of water.
  • 2. It is probable that Christ had an eye to the ordinance of baptism, which John had used and he himself had begun to use, "You must be born again of the Spirit,' which regeneration by the Spirit should be signified by washing with water, as the visible sign of that spiritual grace: not that all they, and they only, that are baptized, are saved; but without that new birth which is wrought by the Spirit, and signified by baptism, none shall be looked upon as the protected privileged subjects of the kingdom of heaven. The Jews cannot partake of the benefits of the Messiah's kingdom, they have so long looked for, unless they quit all expectations of being justified by the works of the law, and submit to the baptism of repentance, the great gospel duty, for the remission of sins, the great gospel privilege.
• Secondly, It is compared to wind: The wind bloweth where it listeth, so is every one that is born of the Spirit, v. 8. The same word (pneuma) signifies both the wind and the Spirit. The Spirit came upon the apostles in a rushing mighty wind (Acts 2:2), his strong influences on the hearts of sinners are compared to the breathing of the wind (Eze. 37:9), and his sweet influences on the souls of saints to the north and south wind, Cant. 4:16. This comparison is here used to show,
  • 1. That the Spirit, in regeneration, works arbitrarily, and as a free agent. The wind bloweth where it listeth for us, and does not attend our order, nor is subject to our command. God directs it; it fulfils his word, Ps. 148:8. The Spirit dispenses his influences where, and when, on whom, and in what measure and degree, he pleases, dividing to every man severally as he will, 1 Co. 12:11.
  • 2. That he works powerfully, and with evident effects: Thou hearest the sound thereof; though its causes are hidden, its effects are manifest. When the soul is brought to mourn for sin, to groan under the burden of corruption, to breathe after Christ, to cry Abba-Father, then we hear the sound of the Spirit, we find he is at work, as Acts 9:11, Behold he prayeth.
  • 3. That he works mysteriously, and in secret hidden ways: Thou canst not tell whence it comes, nor whither it goes. How it gathers and how it spends its strength is a riddle to us; so the manner and methods of the Spirit's working are a mystery. Which way went the Spirit? 1 Ki. 22:24. See Eccl. 11:5, and compare it with Ps. 139:14.

Bolding Ezekiel 36:25 above I believe is important. Remember Jesus is talking to a Jewish Scribe, Pharisee and Teacher. Nicodemus knew the TaNaKh, probably memorized large portions if not all of it, so Jesus is appealing to this knowledge in the discussion.

 

[SkyWriting]

Is water baptism a requirement to be saved

No.
Spirit baptism is.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

#1. Born of the Spirit.
One must be born of the Spirit (Which means a person is regenerated spiritually by God after they genuinely repented of their sins to Jesus and believe He died for their past sins and was risen 3 days later on their behalf).

#2. Born of Water.
One must also be born of water. Being born of water is in reference to being being born again by God's Word. Without receiving the words of Scripture, one cannot be born again. The Parable of the Sower describes how we are born by the seed of the Word (i.e. Scripture) in how we receive the Word in our hearts. This can lead to being fruitful for God's Kingdom. If one is not fruitful, one can fall away from the faith and become unsaved again. Anyways, Ephesians 5:25-26 says that Christ sanctifies and cleanses the church with the washing of the water of the Word. So being born of water is not in reference to our physical birth nor is it in reference to baptism. Being born of water is in reference to being born again by the words of God (The Bible).



...

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Correct water baptism is a work a man does.
And it has nothing to do with having eternal life or speaking in tongues.

John the Baptizer was of the end of Old Covenant, his ministry was a time of transition, preparing the jewish people for the Christ to come who baptizes with the Holy Spirit not earthly water. His ministry ended. Christ's ministry began and supersedes John's.

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Misread or misunderstood my point. My point in referencing those Acts of the Apostles was clearly it shows that a real water Baptism that washes away sin is both required and obviously involves water and can be a distinct event event from the indweliing of the Spirit on the believer. In Acts 10 some of the people listening to Saint Peter believed and the Spirit immediately entered them. So they already had the Holy Spirit, yet Peter asks should those be denied a Baptism because they already have the Spirit. If Baptism is simply a process facilitating or indicating the presence of God in the believer, why would Peter ask if they should be denied what he clearly says they have already? The answer is given because of what he does after asking, which was to Baptize with water those who already had the Spirit.

The only way to get around what is clearly depicted happening to say otherwise would be to claim (as some have) that the leader and the rest of the Apostles immediately lost all they had been taught, fell away and began doing their own thing with water Baptisms. Which BTW Jesus told/showed them that falling away would never happen in regard to what was properly taught by His giving them His Authority to teach it.

John the Baptizer could only offer the washing away of sins as the Spirit had not yet been sent to dwell in the believer. Understandable in one sense as God was already very literally "with those" who believed, as in walking around with them (and perhaps no need to confuse them into thinking there are more than one divine being). So John's Baptism could only accomplish the remission of sins. But the remission of sins is required for the Spirit to totally dwell with a believer, as our sins obviously oppose His Presence within us.

That there is an indwelling of the Holy Spirit on the believer that can be a distinct event that is separable in time from a water Baptism is clearly shown in both Acts 10 and in 19 (perhaps to a lessor degree). The believers wanting a water Baptism in Acts 10 already had the Holy Spirit and are then Baptized. In Acts 19 we clearly have two distinct actions being performed on believers, a water Baptism and then a laying on of hands for the indwelling of the Spirit. I suppose we could assume/claim a physical touch is required (note that it was not required in Acts 10), and so the two events in 19 are simultaneous, but even so the actions are still distinctly two. Indwelling AND a Baptism.

So unless one is going to falsely claim the Apostles all immediately lost it shortly after He Ascended; we have two things. We have a water Baptism for the remission of sins (obviously remission required for salvation- so Baptism a requirement for believers). And we have an indwelling of the Comforter He said He would send after He Ascended. Two distinct and obviously separable events in the life of a believer.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

the thief on the cross was not baptized and was saved so no.

it's a outward sign pointing to an inward reality.

 

[Philip_B]

Baptism - which involves plunging or pouring water in the threefold name - is from antiquity the normative method of acceptance into the Church, the community of the redeemed. Hard cases of course make bad law, the thief on the cross was assured of salvation outside of baptism, and most would argue Matthew Ayairga (2015 kidnapping and beheading of Copts in Libya - Wikipedia) was not simply saved but also a Holy Martyr though the prospect of baptism was not on the radar.

 

[miknik5]

The other main usage of it is the name of a violent movie series - based on the computer screens looking like a math matrix.
THere are other uses of course but they all refer back to the math matrix in one way or another.

I find no mention of the term in scripture:

0 Bible results for “matrix.”
Sorry, we didn’t find any results for your search. Please try the following:

• Double-check spelling, especially people and place names.
• Make sure there are spaces between words. Bible Gateway treats “nameoftheFather” and “name of the Father” differently.
• Use fewer words in your search, especially if you’re unsure of the exact phrase. For example, “baptizing name Father” and “baptizing them in the name of the Father” will both return Matthew 28:19; however, the latter leaves a greater chance for spelling and syntax errors.
• Retry your search in another translation.

Sigh!

 

[bcbsr]

Jesus is appealing to this knowledge in the discussion.

Actually if you read the discussion between Nicodemus and Jesus, the mother's womb does indeed comes up in verse just previous to the one in question.

"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!"

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Water baptism is not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh (1 Peter 3:21). The Bible defines filth (filthiness) of the flesh as "sin." (2 Corinthians 7:1). So baptism does not save in regards to the salvation of our souls. However, that does not mean that there are other things that a believer must show as a part of their faith thru out their life in order to prove Jesus lives within them (See 1 John 2:3-6) (James 2:17) (James 2:24) (Titus 1:16). For without abiding in Jesus, there is no life (1 John 5:12).



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Baptism washes away the sins of believer, that is a remission of them. And it was what the Baptizer said he was doing. The remission of sins is obviously a requirement for salvation - thus a Baptism is a requirement on a believer because by His Grace being so applied to a believer it actually washes away ALL prior sins, they are remitted. Having all sins remitted obviously makes the most room possible for the Spirit to indwell in us, so these two actions are not the same but one assists the other. So the ideas go hand in hand.

Could someone achieve Heaven without having been Baptized - absolutely. The Church has never denied that just as it has never denied that a believer is always required both initially and continually to seek remission of all their sins. That remission of prior sin can initially (and only once) be done completely by a Baptism -which is why it is required for believers.

 

[miknik5]

Then take it to another thread. The OP is about water baptism.

The OP is asking about salvation

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

And I guess the short answer, yes a water Baptism is a requirement on a believer of the Word to be saved, but it does not follow that everyone in Heaven will have had a water Baptism or even heard the Word.

Oh, And yes all those in Heaven have salvation. We are not there yet. So neither does it follow from the above that Hell will not have people in it that have been baptized.

 

[miknik5]

Baptism washes away the sins of believer, that is a remission of them. And it was what the Baptizer said he was doing. The remission of sins is obviously a requirement for salvation - thus a Baptism is a requirement on a believer because by His Grace being so applied to a believer it actually washes away ALL prior sins, they are remitted. Having all sins remitted obviously makes the most room possible for the Spirit to indwell in us, so these two actions are not the same but one assists the other. So the ideas go hand in hand.

Could someone achieve Heaven without having been Baptized - absolutely. The Church has never denied that just as it has never denied that a believer is always required both initially and continually to seek remission of all their sins. That remission of prior sin can initially (and only once) be done completely by a Baptism -which is why it is required for believers.

Yep

 

[redleghunter]

If Baptism is simply a process facilitating or indicating the presence of God in the believer, why would Peter ask if they should be denied what he clearly says they have already? The answer is given because of what he does after asking, which was to Baptize with water those who already had the Spirit.

A very good question. Best answer I have is water Baptism is the 'seal of the new covenant." Every covenant has a seal. Our New Covenant has water Baptism.

If we wanted to get down to brass tacks? Everyone who was 'cut to the heart' in Acts 2 came forward and were baptized.

I also think this has a lot to do with the faith/works discussions. Faith implies faithfulness----action. We believe, we repent, we receive the Holy Spirit and we are Baptized. Baptism is the action of our faith. Abraham believed God and his faith was accredited as righteousness. Indeed. But Abraham packed up his family and moved from his homeland to Canaan. I reject the 'comatose faith' sometimes promoted.

Paul says in Ephesians 2: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

 

[redleghunter]

Actually if you read the discussion between Nicodemus and Jesus, the mother's womb does indeed comes up in verse just previous to the one in question.

Perhaps if Nicodemus was a mid-wife or doctor who delivered babies. I am sure you have seen the amniotic fluid break. Sometimes not a pretty site. The water discussed is related to the purifying God does to us spiritually. See Ezekiel 36:25 and ff.

 

[Neogaia777]

When it is laid upon your conscience or heart in your walk with the Lord, you should seek to do it then...

Whether or not it is required for salvation, would be between that individual and God, cause for some, it might be (by God), and perhaps, others, not so much...

The short answer is "we do not know?", cause it is an individual case by case basis, between that person and God alone...

And we cannot know that except for our own selves and even then it is difficult to know for sure or not...

When it is laid upon your conscience or heart in your walk with the Lord, you should seek to do it then and at that time...

God Bless!

The whole problem lies in the statement "repent and be baptized". We think of it as two things. But in jewish thinking, it is the same thing, it was called "the baptism of repentance", and john the baptiser was the first to bring the real meaning of it.

SO since we break it up into two things, this is true for us, you can definitly be baptised in water and NOT have repented, rendering the gospel useless to you. You can, like so many in the new testament, repent and NOT be baptized and by that fulfil the requirement to receive the gospel for yourself. Even if youre not baptized in water, you are still baptized into the death and resurection of christ (as in romans 6) and that is waht matters. There is no water in the world that can do this.

Which is why baptism should be able to be available and offered with any sermon or preaching for example... For when such ones feel so convicted that they greatly desire to repent and they should be able to "seal the deal" right then and there with a baptism on the spot... (This is how John the Baptist did it.)

Then you would have an "act" to solidify and be able to remember that act as a very deeply meaningful act of repenting to you personally... Separating the two is probably why baptism and repentance seem to not be as successful as they used to be...

Especially with good, effective preaching, where people throw their hands up in the air, and say "What?, What are we to do...?" Then you can say "repent" and seal the deal with the act of being baptized, right now... While the iron is hot, so to speak...

Probably be much more effective than say, an atypical "altar call"...

God Bless!

Personally, I find it incredibly frustrating that I cannot be baptized RIGHT NOW, while the iron is hot...

I am or have currently done away with my old sinful ways, but, I am worried that if I don't get baptized "right now" that I won't have a significant meaningful act to seal the deal, and am wondering, that if the iron cools, I will slip back into some of my old ways, or having to wait, will make my baptism meaningless and insignificant...

Baptism should be able to be spontaneous, not having to be scheduled, and, I do not currently belong to a specific church, but, am looking at and trying different ones, and I find it very frustrating, that I will probably have to attend regularly for a lengthy period of time and jump through all the religious hoops and not to mention theological SAT's to even be able to do it...

That is not what it is supposed to be like... Very frustrating...

God Bless!

Did anyone here even notice these...?

 

[miknik5]

John baptized with water. He was just a herald and witness to the ONE who would baptize with THE HOLY SPIRIT

GOD "seals the deal" Neogiaia777
By HIS SPIRIT through faith in JESUS CHRIST

 

[AJTruth]

Is water baptism a requirement to be saved

I received many opinions to my OP question. Thanks to all the shared. I'll share mine now.

First, I believe every believer should under go water baptism. But, I adamantly reject baptism as being required for salvation. Salvation happens when Christ Himself baptizes us into His Body via the Holy Spirit. Only Christ can baptize us via the Holy Spirit.

John the Baptist said; I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit" (Luke 3:16)
(JOHN SAY'S "HE JOHN" BAPTIZES WITH WATER)

John the Baptist said; he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, "Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit." (Jn 1:26-34; Also see Matt 3:11; Mk 1:7)
(JESUS BAPTIZES US INTO HIS BODY VIA THE HOLY SPIRIT. "NO WATER" IS USED HERE)

Acts 1:5 John truly baptized with water; but ye shall soon be baptized with the Holy Spirit
(JESUS BAPTIZES US INTO HIS BODY VIA THE HOLY SPIRIT. NO WATER IS USE HERE)

Acts 2:4 They were all filled with the Holy Spirit,
(BAPTIZED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. NO WATER WAS USED HERE)

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jew, Gentile, bond or free; & have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(BAPITIZED INTO ONE BODY. SPIRIT IS CAPITALIZED HERE. BAPTIZED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. ITS NOT TALKING ABOUT WATER BAPTISM! NO WATER IS USED HERE)

The baptism into Christ's body via the Holy Spirit. Matt 3:11 & Luke 3:16. Is a covenant of spiritual circumcision, done without hands and without water.

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision """made without hands""", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(ONLY GOD CAN SEE & KNOWS OUR HEART. ONLY GOD CAN CIRCUMCISE OUR HEART -SPIRITUALLY- WITHOUT HANDS)

Water Baptism:
Is Needed to grow your faith & produce GOOD FRUIT

At Baptism, you are symbolically taking part in the Lords death, burial & resurrection (Rom 6:3)

Likewise, my brethren, you have undergone death (in Baptism) as to the Law through the crucified body of Christ, so that now you may belong to Another, to Him Who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God (Romans 7:4)

Therefore, you will fully know them by their fruits (Matt 7:20)

John 12
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground & die, "it abideth alone":
""but if it die"", """""it bringeth forth much fruit"""""

You were already saved by Grace thru faith. & have a secure place in Heavenly places (Eph 2:6). You can not produce good fruits until you have been water Symbolically died to self, buried under water & resurrected when you reemerge. You will now begin to grow to bring forth much fruit for God.

You can't baptize yourself. All things by a witness of 2 or 3. This is to be made as a public outwardly statement. Jesus didn't suffer in hiding. His death, burial & resurrection were ALL public spectacle

Conclusion:
Like a corn of wheat or any planted seed. It must first die, then with the soil, water & sunlight (4 us faith, word & spirit). It begins to rise. At first it has no fruit. With proper care, it grows into a field or a tree which bears much good fruit.

Water Baptism is a symbolic exercise of one's partaking in the Death, Burial & Resurrection of the Lord Christ. Required for Christian growth & good fruit bearing.

WATER BAPTISM IS NOT A REQUIREMENT FOR SALVATION. SALVATION COMES BY GRACE THUR FAITH. Maranatha

 

[sdowney717]

I am glad very glad AJTruth you are being taught by the Holy Spirit to know the truth about water baptism.

Another poster says water baptism washes away your sins, but does it really....
However we read the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.
If earthly water did that then it would have been mentioned by Apostle John in his letters.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

There is a washing of water by the WORD, and that WORD is Christ, who is the Word of God, which is accomplished by the baptism He does, a spiritual washing of regeneration.
Ephesians 5:25-27 King James Version (KJV)
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

"It does not say here washing of water by a man."

 

[truefiction1]

Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

Yes. One must be born anew in order to be saved. There's water in the womb, and one must come back out from the water again, cleansed of those things which became a part of oneself from the birth into corruption. Fallen, darkened minds separate the spiritual and the material. For man, spiritual Communion with God is inseparable from the use of physical matter. We are not heretics embracing dualism, but students of Christ, Who Himself taught Baptism with water and the Spirit (both). Let's not argue with our Master. We should simply obey and get our butts in the water in the Spirit, and let God take care of the unbaptized (in my humble opinion).

 

[Neogaia777]

John baptized with water. He was just a herald and witness to the ONE who would baptize with THE HOLY SPIRIT

GOD "seals the deal" Neogiaia777
By HIS SPIRIT through faith in JESUS CHRIST

He won't force us to repent or to seriously commit to being dedicated to repentance, that's on us and our part in sealing the deal... God is a gentleman... God does the sealing, yes, when we choose to commit to being obedient to repentance, and he will help, and guide and assist and support us, but not force us...

I went through an adapt rehabilitation/recovery program... And, (at the end), everyone get's a special coin to keep as a reminder in their pocket, and I looked forward to that coin and still keep it in my pocket, it's a reminder of what I accomplished (with help) but, when I'm having trouble, I'll pull it out, look at it, read it, rub it in my fingers... And, seriously think about if I really want to destroy that accomplishment...

And, I don't... And, the coin helps...

Baptism is our coin in Christianity to me...

And, I really want, and feel I need to be baptized...

God Bless!