Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

Christian39 said:

This was a special circumstance showing that the Gentiles also could hear and obey the Gospel. They were still commanded to be baptized for the remission of their sins.

God bless

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So then there are 2 special circumstances??, the thief and the entire household of Cornelius?

Seeing Cornelius's station, his household could have been large numbers of persons.
Those things were put in scripture for effectual purpose by God for doctrine.
And you can not add in the idea the thief on the cross was baptised, as if this was important, God would have included that in His Word.
A spiritual principle throughout old and new testaments is the two or three witnesses.
2 Corinthians 13:1 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
13 This is the third time I am coming to you. “In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”

Jesus fulfilled the law because nobody else could. His baptism by John the Baptist fulfilled that part of law. His baptism made the new birth possible, not ours.

Just before his ascension, Jesus told the apostles whom he had chosen to wait for the promise of the father(Acts 1:4). He told them they would be baptised in holy spirit. He said nothing about water.

Acts 1:5,

What was the result of this baptism in holy spirit? They received power and because of that they became witnesses of Jesus (Acts 1:8). That is the witness, not water.
Baptism in holy spirit and power is good enough for me! Some might say I'm not saved because I've not been dunked or sprinkled! Really?

By the way, according to Acts 1:2, Jesus was speaking to, "apostles whom he had chosen." Was Judas one of the apostles whom he had chosen? Absolutely. But wait, traditions says he hung himself right after betraying Jesus. That can't be right if the Bible is right. It's not. Judas actually hung himself just before Jesus' ascension.

AJTruth said:

Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

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The only thing required for you to be saved isn't really a "thing"... it's a person, the Holy Spirit, living inside you.

The thief on the cross believed in Jesus' perfect self-sacrifice, and his faith in Jesus' blood, washed his soul clean, allowing God to pour the Holy Spirit into his heart. Jesus knew this had happened, and that is why He assured the man saying "This day you will be with me in paradise".

If water baptism was required for salvation, Jesus Christ is a liar and that believing thief is now in Hell, because that man was never baptized in water, only in the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, we see and know that we are saved only by Grace (God's Presence), and He comes into our hearts thru the Faith we have in Jesus Christ. Faith is the open door between us and God, and when we "open the door" (have Faith in Jesus Christ), God's Grace (His Holy Spirit) comes into us, cleansing, sealing, and perfecting our souls forever. This is Eternal Life. To be truly known by God, and He says "I will never leave you nor forsake you". We gain true immortality, and we will be delivered from our bodies of sin and death.

As Jesus said, "The one who believes in Me, even if they die, they will live. And whoever lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:25-26

Wolf_Says said:

Where did this come from?? He is not talking about works, or anything of the sort. The OP asked strictly about is water baptism necessary, and the answer is yes.

The Bible clearly states that we are to be baptized and "born again" in water and spirit.

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Sounds pretty clear to me.

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Yep, a plain and simple answer is needed here and I agree with the above. To add that baptism by water usually follows baptism by the Spirit. Some Anglicans/Episcopalians encourage water baptism and remain in that branch of Christian faith. Methodists have "the right hand of Friendship" instead of water baptism where you give your testimony and shake hands with senior church members.

Try and avoid a quick dunking under water in a paddling pool. Research the church beforehand. Does it have a good reputation? Does the minister promote water baptism?

Until I was baptised in water I felt a hole in my life. Don't delay. Be brave

Christian39 said:

This was a special circumstance showing that the Gentiles also could hear and obey the Gospel. They were still commanded to be baptized for the remission of their sins.

God bless

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Hold on now, your mixing up this story!

The Word says this
43 To Him all the prophets bear witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.”

But you said this
"They were still commanded to be baptized for the remission of their sins."

Can you not see how you have changed the Word to suit yourself?

Regarding baptism Peter says no such thing as you have said.

47 “Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Ghost, as well as we?”

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they entreated him to tarry certain days.

Will you repent of your error? Do you also teach others this error?
The doctrine at issue here is not insignificant.

Here is the entire pssage
Acts 10
40 Him God raised up the third day and showed Him openly,

41 not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before by God, even to us who ate and drank with Him after He rose from the dead.

42 And He commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be the Judge of the quick and dead.

43 To Him all the prophets bear witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.”

44 While Peter was yet speaking these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all those who heard the Word.

45 And those of the Circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Ghost was poured out also on the Gentiles.

IF BAPTISM IS NOT REQUIRED FOR SALVATION, WHY DID GOD SAY THIS?
1. baptism now saves you
2. he who believes and is baptized will be saved
3. arise and be baptized and wash away your sins
4. repent and be baptized everyone of you for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift
5. Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
6. ...having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins....

Daniel Keeran said:

IF BAPTISM IS NOT REQUIRED FOR SALVATION, WHY DID GOD SAY THIS?
1. baptism now saves you
2. he who believes and is baptized will be saved
3. arise and be baptized and wash away your sins
4. repent and be baptized everyone of you for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift
5. Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
6. ...having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins....

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John 1:33
And I knew Him not. But He that sent me to baptize with water, the Same said unto me, ‘Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and remaining on Him, the Same is He that baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.’

A water baptism that men do, comes after the baptism of the Holy Spirit that Christ does.
Christ saves us first, all water baptisms are done to saved persons as a believer's baptism and does not save anyone.

Christ who is God also clearly says it like this and no mention whatsoever of water baptism.
John 5
24 Verily, verily I say unto you, he that heareth My Word and believeth in Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life.

No condemnation at all! None, if your not water baptized.

But why not be water baptized as the sign of a good consciousness towards God and as a testifying witness to others..Man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord on the heart. All His believers, He has given to them the NEW HEART.

Christian39 said:

This was a special circumstance showing that the Gentiles also could hear and obey the Gospel. They were still commanded to be baptized for the remission of their sins.

God bless

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What did Jesus Christ exactly say meets the requirement for the remission of sins?

Christian39 said:

First, the thief may well have been baptized prior to being placed on the cross. Considerable scriptural evidence points to this conclusion (Matthew 3:5-6; Mark 1:4-5; Luke 3:21; 7:29-30). If he was, in fact, baptized, he would have been baptized with the baptism administered by John the baptizer. John’s baptism was temporary (i.e., in force only during his personal ministry, terminating at the death of Christ). However, even John’s baptism was “for the remission of sins” (Mark 1:4) and, hence, essential for salvation for those to whom it was addressed.

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John's baptism was not our Christian baptism. Jesus commanded we be baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

If baptism is in response to and infact almost inseparable to salvation is it something that should take place soon after? My little seven year old son has asked the Lord Jesus to save him. He fully understands the Gospel the cross and repentance, he hungers for Bible teaching and takes it to heart and his prayerful approach to life puts my own prayer life to shame. He has asked if he should be baptised It would seem young but if he is sincerely seeking baptism would it be wrong to delay him in this. I am all new to this as I grew up Presbyterian and did not receive belivers baptism till my 20's. I will prayerfuly take my husbands lead but at present he is unsure as we are both suprised at how J is growing in his faith, his Bible knowlage and although he is of course a energetic and at times cheeky little boy esspeslly when roughhousing his siblings and cousins and grumpy at times about doing school (which he finds very hard due to dyslexia and ADHD) we have seen a real change in character. I even came across him having very sinceare serious conversations about scripture with an elderly man at the Gospel Hall. Then today rather than running around with kids his own age which I've never seen him pass on at the home school group he chose to disscuss the Bible with older Children. I keep being suprised yet delighted this is a cheaky active boy with learning disabilities no where near learning to read despite all our efforts yet he is so Hungry for the Word of God. Really need to get him an audio Bible Cd set.
an

OpenYourBibles said:

There are so many different opinions, theories, and philosophies about baptism it is ridiculous! But just go back to the beginning.

Mark 16:16 - he that believeth and is baptized shall

miknik5 said:

I understand

And what matters is a clear conscience before GOD

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miknik5 said:

I understand

And what matters is a clear conscience before GOD

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be saved, he that beliveth not shall be damned. There are two very simple recipies here - if you want to bake a "saved cake" add together belief and baptism. If you want to bake a "damned cake" just use one single ingredient. So what kind of cake do you get if you only use belief but not baptism??? Mark 16 doesn't address that, but I will reiterate to get a "saved cake" it takes two ingredients belief AND baptism.

Now in Acts 2 - Peter tells the people that baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is essential for them to be saved, and then only them that glady received his word were baptized.

In Acts 8 - Philip preaches to the city of Samaria and when they believe they are baptized.

Also in Acts 8 - Philip preaches to the Ethipian Eunuch and after the eunuch had already declared that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, he still needed to be baptized.

In Acts 9 - after Annanias lays hands on Paul and restores his sight Paul is baptized and begins learning of Christ.

In Acts 10 - Peter teaches the house of Cornelious (gentiles) and while he is teaching the Holy Ghost falls on them. And yet even after the Holy Spirit of God has fallen on them Peter commands them to be baptized in water.

In Acts 16 - When Lydia believe Paul's teaching and attended to the things he had taught she was baptized along with all of her house.

Also in Acts 16 - When Paul and Silas are freed from thier shackles in prison they witness to the jail keeper and when he requests what he must do to be saved, They tell him to believe on Jesus, and within that same hour he takes them to his home helps clean them up and is baptized along with the rest of his house.

In Acts 18 - Paul teaches in he synagogue in Corinith and persuades Crispus the chief ruler of the synagogue to believe and Crispus and many of the Corinthians believe and are baptized.

In Acts 19 - Paul finds believers who have only heard of John the Baptists baptism. Upon teaching them and confirming their belief he does two things, he baptizes them, and then he lays his hands on them and they receive the Holy Ghost.

In Acts 22 - When Paul is recounting his conversion unto the Jews of Jerusalem he tells them that Annanias commanded him to be baptized to wash away his sins.

All of these are the first examples of the church, and in each case baptism is a necessary requirement. In each case the individuals beleive first. Sometimes they receive the Holy Ghost before baptism sometimes they receive it afterwards, but in each case the believe, they are baptized, and they receive the Holy Ghost.

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sdowney717 said:

Jesus nixed Nicodemus's question of being born again like from a womb.
Jesus also said He spoke of earthly and heavenly things and Nicodemus understood neither one, really did not understand anything at all.
So yes, Jesus would have been speaking of spiritual things having to do with being born of God from above, nothing to do with an earthly physical birthing.

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I agree, but Jesus evidently intended for Nicodemus to understand what He said to him.

The comparison is as we have born the earthly image like Adam, we must bear the heavenly image of Christ, or we will not be entering the kingdom of God.

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Again an anachronistic answer. How could Jesus expect Nicodemus to know or understand something written by Paul several years later? Is there anything in Jewish teaching that Jesus or Nicodemus could relate this to?

Adding this
1 Corinthians 15:48-50 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy; and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

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Oliveshootsmummy said:

If baptism is in response to and infact almost inseparable to salvation is it something that should take place soon after? My little seven year old son has asked the Lord Jesus to save him. He fully understands the Gospel the cross and repentance, he hungers for Bible teaching and takes it to heart and his prayerful approach to life puts my own prayer life to shame. He has asked if he should be baptised It would seem young but if he is sincerely seeking baptism would it be wrong to delay him in this. I am all new to this as I grew up Presbyterian and did not receive belivers baptism till my 20's. I will prayerfuly take my husbands lead but at present he is unsure as we are both suprised at how J is growing in his faith, his Bible knowlage and although he is of course a energetic and at times cheeky little boy esspeslly when roughhousing his siblings and cousins and grumpy at times about doing school (which he finds very hard due to dyslexia and ADHD) we have seen a real change in character. I even came across him having very sinceare serious conversations about scripture with an elderly man at the Gospel Hall. Then today rather than running around with kids his own age which I've never seen him pass on at the home school group he chose to disscuss the Bible with older Children. I keep being suprised yet delighted this is a cheaky active boy with learning disabilities no where near learning to read despite all our efforts yet he is so Hungry for the Word of God. Really need to get him an audio Bible Cd set.
an

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The New Testament testimony is baptism was done the same day or shortly after one puts on Christ.

Oliveshootsmummy said:

If baptism is in response to and infact almost inseparable to salvation is it something that should take place soon after? My little seven year old son has asked the Lord Jesus to save him. He fully understands the Gospel the cross and repentance, he hungers for Bible teaching and takes it to heart and his prayerful approach to life puts my own prayer life to shame. He has asked if he should be baptised It would seem young but if he is sincerely seeking baptism would it be wrong to delay him in this. I am all new to this as I grew up Presbyterian and did not receive belivers baptism till my 20's. I will prayerfuly take my husbands lead but at present he is unsure as we are both suprised at how J is growing in his faith, his Bible knowlage and although he is of course a energetic and at times cheeky little boy esspeslly when roughhousing his siblings and cousins and grumpy at times about doing school (which he finds very hard due to dyslexia and ADHD) we have seen a real change in character. I even came across him having very sinceare serious conversations about scripture with an elderly man at the Gospel Hall. Then today rather than running around with kids his own age which I've never seen him pass on at the home school group he chose to disscuss the Bible with older Children. I keep being suprised yet delighted this is a cheaky active boy with learning disabilities no where near learning to read despite all our efforts yet he is so Hungry for the Word of God. Really need to get him an audio Bible Cd set.
an

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My first response to questions like this is, do you have a Pastor, and what does he/she say? 1 Corinthians 14:40 says let all things be done decently and in order. God has set up an established order with a ministry in place to answer these sorts of questions and help guide us through this Christian walk. If you do not have a Pastor, seek God for direction, he promised to send you a Pastor after his heart to lead you with knowledge and understanding. God didn't leave you to have to lean on the opinions of members of a forum for such a serious subject.

That being said the prerequisite for baptism in Acts 2:38 is repentance, if a person is truly repented and ready to pursue a life following Christ who is to say they cannot be baptized? In the New Testament church repentance, baptism in Jesus Name, and being filled with the Holy Ghost are all done together. There is no record of repentance and waiting days, weeks, months, etc.. then baptism, and another waiting period and then receiving the Holy Ghost.

In fact if you have an understanding of WHY we must repent, be baptized in Jesus name, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost it makes more sense why they are all done at once. Repentance is a decision - a turning away from the way you used to do things and a looking to God for direction on how to live Holy. Baptism then applies the blood of Christ to our past sins, so that they cannot be charged to us. And the Holy Ghost is our comforter and guide to lead us into a new Holy lifestyle.

So if you think about it, what good would it be to Repent and not be baptized as soon as possible. You would be trying to lead a new life with the weight of the old one still pulling at you. Or what good is it to be baptized and have your sins remitted and not receive the Holy Ghost which is a guide to move forward in Holiness.

But as I first stated, discuss these matters with your Pastor, they are far to serious to be left to the opinions of us on the forums!

Der Alter said:

I agree, but Jesus evidently intended for Nicodemus to understand what He said to him.

Again an anachronistic answer. How could Jesus expect Nicodemus to know or understand something written by Paul several years later? Is there anything in Jewish teaching that Jesus or Nicodemus could relate this to?

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All should understand v 22 regarding it is the blood that is shed for the remission of sins, not ceremonial washings.

In the law of which Nicodemus would have been intimately familiar, (you would think so anyway), v19, scripture mentions also water that Moses was commanded along with blood to sprinkle the book and all the people. Hyssop was a fragrance mixed into the water and the blood.


Hebrews 9
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book and all the people,

20 saying, “This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.”

21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry.

22 And by the law almost all things are purged with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

So then we have the jewish understanding of the water and the blood.

AJTruth said:

Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

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No it is not, and even under the law with Johns water baptism for the Jews, it was only unto repentance and to manifest Jesus to israel. Johns water baptism in the Jordan was typified when Joshua and the Jews went over the Jordan river into the new land. The water parted and the ark typifying Christ went first. The 12 stones were taken and placed in the river and 12 stones taken and put into the land. Typifying the dying with Christ and rising with him. Jesus fulfilled this type and manifested himself to the 12 tribes of Israel. This was not for the gentiles as a whole.

Any who add water baptism to the gospel make another gospel and are in spiritual danger. Read the true saving gospel 1 Cor. 15:1-5 and notice that there is no water baptism added to it , no circumcision, no Mosaic law, no Sabbaths, no works of the law or the flesh etc.

The Jews also had many diverse washings and carnal ordinances imposed upon them until the time of reformation. These washings ( or baptisms in the greek) could never make them perfect as pertaining to the conscience. But the blood of Christ who through the eternal Spirit purged believers consciences through faith. As Hebrews 9 speaks of.

The Gentiles were not to be under the law or have the things that were passing away with the jews imposed on them. That is why Paul ( the apostle to the gentiles) said that Christ sent him not to baptism but to preach the gospel.

But there were many Judaisers that tried to bring the gentiles under the law.

We even see thousands of jews that believed still under the law and zealous for it and going into the temple in Acts 21 and other places. In fact all through Acts. They even had animal sacrifices for them and were zealous of the customs also of the jews.

But these were not for the gentiles and the jews were in transition form the old to the new covenant. God was patient with them. Because they were nursed up in the law and it took time for them to come out from the old covenant 9 which was fading away and ready to vanish) to the new covenant understanding.

Jesus told his disciples that he had many things to say and to judge of them, but they're not able to bear it until the Holy Ghost came and taught them all truth.

But Jesus gave a clue to the old and new when in Acts 1 he told them that John baptized with water but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. John ( past tense) baptized, but (future tense) ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

There is a saving baptism however, and this is the "one baptism" spoken of in scripture. This saving baptism is an inward work where we have a clean conscience, and it is to be baptized into Christ by the Spirit. Baptized into one body, where the believers put on Christ. Read 1 Peter 3:21, and Galatians 3 and 1 Cor 12;13.

The water and the blood is intimately of Christ, how He came, in the power of the Holy Spirit and He came to give His people eternal life, accomplished by His death, for without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin.

I wonder how many can make the connection here, the water, the blood and the Spirit and being born of God.

1 John 5:6-8 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
6 This is He that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in Heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three agree in one.

Remember we are His workmanship in the earth.
Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love wherewith He loved us,

5 even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ (by grace ye are saved),

6 and hath raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God—

9 not by works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath beforehand ordained, that we should walk in them.

sdowney717 said:

All should understand v 22 regarding it is the blood that is shed for the remission of sins, not ceremonial washings.

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How would Nicodemus know any of this? The book of Hebrews was written many years after his encounter with Jesus.

In the law of which Nicodemus would have been intimately familiar, (you would think so anyway), v19, scripture mentions also water that Moses was commanded along with blood to sprinkle the book and all the people. Hyssop was a fragrance mixed into the water and the blood.

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None of this says anything about born of water and born of the spirit.

Hebrews 9
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book and all the people,
20 saying, “This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.”
21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And by the law almost all things are purged with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
So then we have the jewish understanding of the water and the blood.

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Nothing about being born of water and the Spirit.

John 3 does not speak of water baptism, but rather that which is born of the flesh and the spirit. Two births are mentioned in that chapter. The born of the flesh is to be born of water. The boy is born when the water breaks and this is flesh ,. The spiritual birth is from above by God by the word of God. This is not seen with the natural eyes. It is like the wind you front see where it comes or goes, so is everyone who is born after the spirit.

when some try to twist this chapter to make it water baptism, they confound the two births and discussion Jesus gave.

Ask yourself why Jesus answered nicodemus question about is it possible for a man to go back into his mothers womb and be b born a second time, with born of water...and that which is flesh is flesh. vs 6

To say who is saved or not is up to God. St.Paul wrote, if you believe Jesus is Lord you are saved. But I would think you get baptism and confirmation in your life time. We are all sinners and short of the glory.

wayfarersoul1978 said:

To say who is saved or not is up to God. St.Paul wrote, if you believe Jesus is Lord you are saved. But I would think you get baptism and confirmation in your life time. We are all sinners and short of the glory.

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water baptism is not for the New testament at all. The Jewish believers pressed it on many but they were still under the law and did not have a conscience to understand all the aspects of the new covenant, so God was patient with them. They cannot go beyond what they think is right and to go against their conscience is not safe either. Imagine Peter on pentecost standing up and saying, "by the way , the temple is no more all the sacrifices must cease now, no more priest etc etc. First of all he did not fully understand this yet, and so he could not in a good conscience says this secondly many of the people there would to be able to understand yet.

We see the jews struggling with letting go of the old all through the scriptures.