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Featured Is Trump the first horseman of the apocalypse?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by friend of, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    Maybe you are correct here then, but I'm not sure though. I can somewhat see the logic in what you are saying. And in my mind, if there is at least logic to something, it makes it a possibility then.
     
  2. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    Go back and read chapter 5, with timing in mind. What TIME was it when Jesus sent the Holy Spirit down? What TIME was it when Jesus then got the book into His hands?
     
  3. Mark51

    Mark51 Newbie Supporter

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  4. Mark51

    Mark51 Newbie Supporter

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  5. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well jumping in kind of late- No Trump cannot be the rider of the white horse. Ina ll prbability that rider is the antichrist! He wears a stephanos crown which is not a royal crown but a victors crown. and he goes out to conquer

    We know that the antichrist (who is Satan's physical son) conquers 3 of the ten rulers of the world after the one world govt. fails and the other 7 give their allegiance ot him so he rules the world. The seals could very well be pre-tribulational events that lead up to the beginning of the tribulation or Daniels 70th week. The seven year period begins when Israel signs a treaty with the antichrist which means the antichrist must be in a political power position to enforce that treaty!
     
  6. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    But the rider goes out conquering and to conquer. He militarily overthrows three of the 10 world rulers to become the world ruler.

    I am more convinced that the seals are pretribulationjal events that lead the world to the signing of the 7 year covenant with Israel (WHETHER IT IS THE TWO STATE SOLUTION OR A TREATY AFTER THE RUSSIAN COALITION INVASION REMAINS TO BE SEEN)

    But I am convinced that the start of the tribulation is after the antichrist goes out here as the rider of the white horse. He has to be in a position of real authority to sign and enforce a treaty with Israel.
     
  7. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Agree.............


    ==================
    Is Trump the first horseman of the apocalypse?
    It would be even more interesting seeing him on a horse drawn chariot..........
    ==================
    Zechariah 1:8I looked out into the night and saw a man riding on a red horse that stood among the myrtle trees in the hollow. Behind him were red, sorrel, and white horses.
    11And the riders answered the angel of the LORD who stood among the myrtle trees, “We have patrolled the earth, and behold, all the earth is at rest and tranquil.”
    Zec 6:1
    Then I turned and raised my eyes and looked, and behold, four chariots were coming from between two mountains, and the mountains were mountains of bronze.
    =====================================
    I would bet he is the rider on the black horse

    Revelation 6:

    2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.
    5 When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and He who sat on it had a yoke in his hand.
    Rev 9:9
    And they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots with many horses running into battle.
    Rev 18:13
    “and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies and souls of men.

    [​IMG]


    ............................................
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
  8. iamlamad

    iamlamad Lamad

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    First, we must follow the text, not human imagination or reasoning. If we really do study the text, in chapter 4 we see a throne room without Jesus (Only the Father on the throne, Jesus NOT SEEN at His right hand), We see the Holy Spirit still there in the throne room (When Jesus said He would send Him down as soon as He ascended), and finally, we see a search for one worthy to open the seals that ended in failure. All this is to show us TIMING; WHEN was Jesus not at the right hand of the Father? Of course, while He was on the earth. WHEN was the Holy Spirit still in the throne room? Of course, before Jesus ascended? WHEN was a time when Jesus would NOT have been worthy to open the seals? Of course, before He rose from the dead. It was Him prevailing over death that made Him worthy.

    John then "clinches" this timing by showing us the moment Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down. WHEN was that? Around 32 AD. So the CONTEXT of the first seal is 32 AD. It cannot be the Antichrist.

    Note that John used the color white 17 times in Revelation, and 16 times to represent righteousness. There is siimply NO WAY God is going to have John use white in this verse for the first seal for any other purpose than righteousness.

    The first seal is to represent the CHURCH taking the GOSPEL to the nations.

    If we read the commentators, we find that this crown really means ultimate victory. Final victory. That does not fit the Antichrist, but certainly fits the church.

    Where in John's narrative does he begin to see a vision? I submit, it is Rev. 4:2. A vision can be of the past, present, future or a mixture. Here God begins the vision at a time before Jesus rose from the dead. Then to the exact time He rose from the dead, then to the time He ascended, and then through chapter 6 up to seal 5 as the time of the church, and then to sea; 6 He begins the end times with the start of the Day of the Lord. Chapters 8 through 16 take us through the 70th week, and chapters 17 on is after the 70th week. In other words, John takes us in a very straight line through time.
     
  9. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Conquering and winning are not synonymous. Trump may have accomplished much, but the best information I can find gives the territory of the USA as being the same size as it was in 2016.
     
  10. Jipsah

    Jipsah Blood Drinker

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    The AntiChrist is actually Thomas (Tommy) Andersen of Grand Junction Colorado. You'll see.
     
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  11. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Scripture?
     
  12. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Daniel 9:

    26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    The he of verse 27 has to refer back to its nearest antecedant- which is the prince of the people who will destroy the sanctuary. So it is a ruler of Rome. whether of the time of Danile, Jesus ,or when He arrives is to be seen.

    But as this is future is clear:

    Matt. 24:
    15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

    16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

    17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

    18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

    19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

    20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

    21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

    22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

    That this was not the 70 AD judgment against Israel for the unpardonable sin is clear. First in that 4 years Rome did not defile the holy place.
    Second while the destrtuction of Jerusalem was horrid, Israel was basically spared (as evidenced they could gather an army for the 130's bar Kochba revolt) and we have had worse troubles in the world since then.

    As this refers tot eh antichrist is also clear elsewhere:

    2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 King James Version (KJV)
    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    Also Rev. 12 shows the antichrist breaking the 7 year covenant with Israel midway through. Israel fleeing and being protected by God for 3 1/2 years So this is the fulfilment of Daniel 9 and Matthew 24
     
  13. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The word "antichrist" does not appear in Daniel 9, nor in the whole of the OT.

    There is in fact no ancient Hebrew word for "antichrist".

    So Daniel 9 cannot be referring to "antichrist".

    There is only one Individual in Daniel 9 identified as a prince.

    That Individual is Messiah.

    The antecedent chain points back to Him.

    Messiah is identified as a prince elsewhere in both the OT and NT (Isaiah 9:6; Revelation 1:5)

    Antichrist is identified as a prince nowhere in Scripture.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  14. grafted branch

    grafted branch New Member

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    I looked at and studied the seals some time ago and this is what I came up with.

    The book with 7 seals in Revelation 5:1 seems to be the same as the Lambs book of life in Revelation 21:27 because only the Lamb was worthy to take the book and open the seals. The writing within and on the backside would then be the names of believers. When the seals are opened certain events are revealed with each seal. These events are the requirements for opening each of the seals and are either actions done by Christ, the Lamb of God or involve him in some way.

    The first 4 seals involve the 4 horsemen and are each introduced with the words “come and see” by 1 of the 4 beasts. The 4 beasts are full of eyes and in the midst of the throne and round about the throne (Revelation 4:6). The 4 beasts each have a likeness, lion, calf, face of a man, and a flying eagle. 2 Chronicles 16:9 states the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth. In Zechariah 6:1-7 there are 4 chariots with different colored horses. The question is asked what are these. The answer in verse 5 is the 4 spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth. In verse 7 they walk to and fro through the earth. In Zechariah 1:8-11 there is a man riding a red horse and behind him are red, speckled, and white horses. They are said to be those whom the Lord hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth. The 4 beasts and 4 horsemen are closely related to each other because of the fact that they all walk to and fro through the earth. In Revelation 5:8 the 4 beasts fall down and worship the Lamb. This indicates that they are not Christ himself but there is certainly a connection while Christ is on earth.

    1st seal: Revelation 6:1-2

    When the Lamb opens the first seal, the first beast which is like a lion says come and see.

    The rider on the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer. The words conquering and conquer are Strong’s #3528 which is more commonly used as overcome. In Revelation 5:5 the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David hath prevailed (#3528) to open the book. This is Christ going forth at his birth to complete or overcome what was necessary to open the book of life and secure the salvation of those written in the book. The bow he has would then be a rainbow similar to Ezekiel 1:28. This bow or appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord is seen at the time of Christ’s birth in Luke2:9 when the glory of the Lord shone round about the shepherds in the field. In Luke 1:32 the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David. This is the crown given him. The color white is associated with purity, our sins being removed or covered. Believers are given white robes and shall be whiter than snow.


    2nd seal: Revelation 6:3-4

    The second beast is like a calf and the rider on the red horse is given power to take peace from the earth, that they should kill one another, and is given a great sword.

    In Ephesians 6:17 it states the sword of the Spirit is the word of God. In Matthew 3:16 when Jesus is baptized the Spirit of God descended on him, this is Jesus, the Lamb of God, being given the great sword and in Matthew 10:34 Jesus came not to send peace but a sword.

    Luke 12:51-53 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division. It then lists all the divisions. John 7:40-43 and John 10:19 both show that there is division based on his words or “sword”. In John 6 Jesus explains that he is the bread of life, in verse 52 the Jews strove among themselves and in verse 66 it states “from that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him”. Again it is Jesus’s words that caused the division and take peace.

    When Jesus sent forth the 12 disciples to preach the gospel and heal the sick they are told in Matthew 10:20 when they are delivered up before governors and kings “For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you”. These are the words of God or the sword. In verse 21 it states “And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death”. This killing of one another is occurring because of the word of God and the preaching of the gospel. Christ does bring peace between believers and God as seen in Romans 5:1 and believers obviously aren’t the ones doing the killing. So while believers have assurance and peace for their souls, they don’t have physical assurance and peace for their bodies. In fact as it states in Romans 8:36 For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

    In Numbers 19:1-10 is the ordinance of the law concerning the red heifer which is to be killed without the camp. The 2nd beast that is like a calf and the red colored horse are pointing to the fact that Christ (who was innocent, without blemish) must be killed outside of Jerusalem the same as the red heifer. Peace must be taken so they would kill one another, because despite the law forbidding the taking of the life of an innocent man they would have to commit this very act.


    3rd seal: Revelation 6:5-6

    The third beast had a face like a man and the rider on the black horse has a pair of balances.

    When the statement “a measure of wheat for a penny and 3 measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine” is heard, it is the wheat and barley that are put on the balance and determined to have a cost of 1 penny.

    The wheat can certainly be viewed as believers as in Matthew 13:30 at the time of harvest the wheat is gathered into his barn but the tares are burned. In Acts 20:28 it states feed the church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood. Since believers are purchased they will not have to bear that cost. This would then cause a penny and the blood of Christ to be synonymous or have some kind of value relationship. Matthew 20:1-16 has the parable of the laborers in the vineyard. If the hired laborers are viewed as saved people, then when their work in the vineyard (our time on earth) is done they all receive a penny (the value promised to them) regardless of when they were hired (saved) or the amount of physical work they did. In Mark 12:15-17 after being asked if it’s lawful to give tribute to Caesar or not, Jesus asks them to bring him a penny. The physical penny is to be rendered unto Caesar but unto God the things that are God’s. In 1 Corinthians 6:20 it states for ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s. We render unto God the things that are God’s because we are bought with a price. While it doesn’t specifically call this price a penny, it is interesting to note that Jesus asked for a penny when discussing this matter.



    The spiritual meaning of barley is sin and specifically sin that is remembered before God. In Numbers 5:15, concerning a jealous husband, it states “then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance”. The offering of barley meal brings into remembrance iniquity. In John 6:35 Jesus states that he is the bread of life and in verse 51 it states if any man eat this bread he shall live forever. In John 6:9-13 when Jesus feeds the 5,000 with 5 barley loaves it is a picture of believers eating the bread of life. The reason barley loaves are used is because the bread of life, which is Jesus, will take on the very sins that should have been remembered on us. In Hebrews 10:17 it states and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

    If barley represents sin remembered before God, why are 3 measures of barley equal to 1 penny?

    In Hosea3:2 Hosea buys an adulteress wife for 15 pieces of silver and 1 and 1/2 homers of barley. Exodus 21:32 sets the price of a servant, male or female, at 30 shekels of silver. If Hosea’s purchase of his wife was paid half with shekels and half with barley, then this would equate 3 homers of barley with 30 shekels of silver. In Matthew 27:6 after Judas casts down the 30 pieces of silver the chief priests don’t put the money in the treasury because it is the price of blood. In Matthew 27:25 all the people answered and said, His (Jesus) blood be on us, and on our children. The 3 measures of barley represent the unsaved world because their sins are remembered and they must bear the cost. In Daniel 5:27 when the writing on the wall is interpreted by Daniel the meaning of TEKEL is thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting or deficient (Strong’s #2627). This is Belshazzar who humbled not his heart and lifted up himself against the Lord that is weighed and found deficient, lacking his sins being paid for. This is limited atonement. In Matthew 13:33 the kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven. In Matthew 16:12 leaven is equated with doctrine. This leaven or doctrine of the kingdom of heaven is hid in 3 measures of meal until the whole was leavened. Compare this with Matthew 24:14 where the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. The 3 measures of meal represent the world in this parable and the woman would then be the church or believers.


    In Hebrews 1:9 Christ is anointed by God with the oil of gladness. In Acts10:38 God anointed Jesus with the Holy Ghost and with power. Oil can certainly be synonymous with the Holy Spirit.


    In John 2:1-11 Jesus turns the water into wine. This symbolizes the scriptures (water) being fulfilled (turned to wine). In Matthew 5:17 Jesus states I am not come to destroy the law but to fulfill. In Revelation 14:10 those who worship the beast will drink of the wine of the wrath of God. This again would be those who worship the beast having Gods wrath fulfilled on them. Wine spiritually represents the scriptures being fulfilled or accomplished.


    Jesus prays in Luke 22:42 Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. We know from Isaiah 53:5 that Christ was wounded for our transgressions. We also know that after he was baptized the Spirit of God descended upon him (Matthew 3:16). When Jesus cried out my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me; the Holy Spirit is no longer with him at that time. The Holy Spirit is not hurt or wounded with Jesus. The cup or price that must be paid for the wheat is asked to be removed. The answer or Gods will would be that he must die alone, without the Holy Spirt (oil not being hurt) and what was written in the scriptures must be fulfilled (wine not being hurt).


    The third beast had a face like a man. Man is weighed in the balance and must pay for his sins or as in the case of believers, be given as a gift the cost of his sins. In Jude 13 the blackness of darkness is reserved for those, in verse 4, who are ungodly men, denying the only Lord God. Black is also the color of the horse whose rider has the balances.



    4th seal: Revelation 6:7-8

    The fourth beast was like a flying eagle and the rider on the pale or green horse has the name Death and Hell followed with him.

    In 2 Corinthians 5:21 Christ became sin for us and in Romans 6:23 the wages of sin is death. In 1 Corinthians 15:55 “O death where is thy sting? O grave (hell Strong’s #86), where is thy victory? ”. Hell follows with death in that they are both conquered or overcome by Christ.

    And power was given them over the fourth part of the earth to kill with the sword, hunger, death, and the beasts of the earth.

    In Matthew 10:28 we are told to not fear them which kill the body but are not able to kill the soul. Believers certainly aren’t the ones doing the killing, and unbelievers can only commit physical killing. This statement then has to be referring to the physical acts that unbelievers do and they have been doing them ever since Cain killed Able. Because the wheat or believers are 1 part and the barley or unsaved of the world are 3 parts, it is the world that continues to be able to physically kill the believers or 4th part despite Christ becoming death for us and overcoming it. I think this statement is simply reiterating the fact that physical acts against believers will continue until the end. When the next seal is opened those who were killed are told to rest a little season until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    In Exodus 19:3-4 the children of Israel are told the Lord bare them on eagles wings when they left the bondage of Egypt. In Isaiah 40:31 they that wait upon the Lord shall mount up with wings as eagles. The color of the horse is green (Strong’s #5515). In Jeremiah 17:7-8 the man that trusteth in the Lord and whose hope the Lord is shall be as a tree … with green leaves. Because Christ conquers death believers are carried on eagles wings and become green as a trees leaves with life.
     
  15. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Sorry, Temple is incorrect.........Ditch the KJV ........that appears to be a favorite version for Futurist Dispensationalist.

    The Jews and Dispenstionlist have a loooonnnggg wait for a Jewish Sanctuary and Temple to be built.....

    2Th 2:4

    who is opposing and is raising himself up above all called God or worshiped, so that he in the Sanctuary<3485> of God as God hath sat down, shewing himself off that he is God -- the day doth not come.

    The Court in Revelation 11:2

    Revelation 11:

    1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary<3485> of the God and the Altar[Golden Altar] and those worshiping in it
    2 and the Court/fold<833>[water lavar/Altar of Sacrifice], outside the Sanctuary, be casting-out!<1544> out-side, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the nations
    and the holy City they shall be treading<3961 forty two months.
     
  16. Bobber

    Bobber Well-Known Member

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    I think it's a real long stretch would you're suggesting but I do think you're on to one good thing. The color of the horses, white, red, black & pale are significant God didn't just put color names in their for no reason. I heard one suggest white could be Catholicism, maybe the Pope as they use white a lot....red is communism, black stands for capitalism different political systems etc.... I don't know. But one thing I do know is the colors are significant about something. Some day it'll become clear. I don't believe it is quite yet.
     
  17. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well that is what the believing mockers said about Israel ever going back to their homeland as prophesied! done- 1948

    That is what believing mockers said about Israel ever having Jerusalem back! done 1967

    I have been to Israel, I have seen the temnple instruments, the priests ephods, the plans and blueprints. The temple will be built in gods time and Satans son, the Antichrist, will enter the holy place and deeclare himself god from there and declare genocide against Jews. And Christians!
     
  18. nolidad

    nolidad Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Boy you sure do love straining gnats and swallowing camels!

    The term antichrist as used for an individual appears only once in Scripture- (1 JOhn) But the same man has many many titles

    Seed of the Serpent.
    Prince of the people to come
    man of lawless ness
    man of sin
    king of fierce countenance
    little horn
    11th horn

    and on and on they go! Daniel 9 is referring ot teh antichrist , just another of his titles.
     
  19. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Scripture strains both gnats and camels.

    The reality is that there is no Scripture to be found which associates antichrist with any of the titles above.

    Contrast that with Messiah's unmistakable title of "prince" in multiple Scriptures.

    Including Daniel 9:26.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  20. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Would you accept or agree that the following titles are all descriptors of one certain individual, or are they titles describing multiple individuals? In your view below...

     
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