Is transgender a lie?

[Skybringr]

With nothing to substantiate your assertion, I can refute it very simply...... No they're not.

The good thing about orthodoxy is that it's true whether you choose to believe it or not.
It vindicates those such as myself. It is also true that just because some Christians have lied to you does not mean it is so.

Laboring under the delusion that continuing in a sex reassignment is biblical and sound is just bad.
You losing religion is less important to you then your sex change, and that is why alleged Christian transgenders need to really rethink their worldview.

 

[Hetta]

It vindicates those such as myself.

The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other people--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector.'

 

[StephanieSomer]

The good thing about orthodoxy is that it's true whether you choose to believe it or not.
It vindicates those such as myself. It is also true that just because some Christians have lied to you does not mean it is so.

Laboring under the delusion that continuing in a sex reassignment is biblical and sound is just bad.
You losing religion is less important to you then your sex change, and that is why alleged Christian transgenders need to really rethink their worldview.

I agree with your pronouncement of orthodoxy. However, none of your claims regarding transsexuals fall under the banner of orthodoxy.

I have not lost religion. In fact, religion itself is of little worth as compared to the relationship with The Father, Christ, and The Holy Spirit. And that relationship is stronger than ever.

I'd also point out that your phrase "alleged Christian transgenders" is dangerously close to a violation. I wouldn't do anything about it, but then again, I'm not a mod.

 

[FireDragon76]

I have not lost religion. In fact, religion itself is of little worth as compared to the relationship with The Father, Christ, and The Holy Spirit. And that relationship is stronger than ever.

Some people privilege religious doctrines and experiences too much, and they miss the deeper truths of the Gospels in favor of man-shaped doctrines and traditions. They want to put God in boxes and try to shut people out of the Kingdom, but the only way that works is to try to make us buy into self-hatred.

 

[Skybringr]

Some people privilege religious doctrines and experiences too much, and they miss the deeper truths of the Gospels in favor of man-shaped doctrines and traditions. They want to put God in boxes and try to shut people out of the Kingdom, but the only way that works is to try to make us buy into self-hatred.

A doctrine is a perceived principle of truth.

Catholics know not to underestimate doctrine on that basis. It's a mistake to try and differentiate doctrine as being arbitrary and 'man made'.

 

[poolerboy0077]

"Mental illness" has always been a loaded subject.

I read a thing once, a long time ago, that spoke on the probability that as much as 50% of children diagnosed with ADHD actually don't have it, and 25% of children who aren't diagnosed have it.

It went on to explain that diagnosing a kid with ADHD was a bit over the top anyway, simply diagnosing those with bad upbringings.



The point is obvious- psychology has a hard time pinning anything down, and is a science in it's infancy.
If a conflict of interest or deduction exists on a matter such as that, then it exists among a lot of other things in psychology as well.

To say that transgender is factually innate is to be scientifically dishonest and arbitrary. If one were to be honest, one would admit that most of it all is propelled by emotion and forced leeway.

Well then you're being unfair when you ask for conclusive evidence since what you're basically saying here is that the entire field is questionable in its conclusions. Of course, as others have mentioned, transgender isn't something that's only been studied psychologically, but we don't even have to go there. We can make reasonable inferences from the existing data that we have. Even if we don't have "conclusive evidence" that post-traumatic stress disorder is real, we can infer that people like our men and women who serve overseas experience so many traumatic events that it can be reasonable to assume that their condition is one which is real and requires treatment, even if it's hard to establish since it occurs at the level of the brain and is intangible. Likewise, a condition which a certain percentage of the population have admitted has plagued them since infancy and has persisted way into adulthood can be reasonably relied on as being a real distress that is unlikely to be either a "liberal" conspiracy nor a petulant whim. It seems that you, like many other ardent dogmatists here on this forum, are just bothered because this issue touches on taboo subjects that you dislike: sex and gender. It's laughable that as someone who adopts outlandish extraordinary claims about the nature of reality based on the scribblings of desert nomads from centuries ago coupled with highly dubious epistemologies that rely on blind trust (i.e., faith) is also conveniently skeptical of fields like psychology because they aren't as empirically demanding as other, harder sciences. In the words of Judge Judy: "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining."

 

[Armoured]

Well then you're being unfair when you ask for conclusive evidence since what you're basically saying here is that the entire field is questionable in its conclusions. Of course, as others have mentioned, transgender isn't something that's only been studied psychologically, but we don't even have to go there. We can make reasonable inferences from the existing data that we have. Even if we don't have "conclusive evidence" that post-traumatic stress disorder is real, we can infer that people like our men and women who serve overseas experience so many traumatic events that it can be reasonable to assume that their condition is one which is real and requires treatment, even if it's hard to establish since it occurs at the level of the brain and is intangible. Likewise, a condition which a certain percentage of the population have admitted has plagued them since infancy and has persisted way into adulthood can be reasonably relied on as being a real distress that is unlikely to be either a "liberal" conspiracy nor a petulant whim. It seems that you, like many other ardent dogmatists here on this forum, are just bothered because this issue touches on taboo subjects that you dislike: sex and gender.

I would invite Sky to study just how involved it is getting a diagnosis of gender dysphoria compared to a diagnosis of ADHD. Most medical professionals will probably fairly happily concede that some psychological conditions are over diagnosed, due to high volume of candidates, limited interaction between medical staff and patients, and an understanding that for the most part, misdiagnosing something like ADHD is not the end of the world, and can be rectified later. All seriously major points of difference. Diagnosis of gender dysphoria takes a lot, and a referral for GRT even more.

There seems to be a subcurrent of thought for many here that people can procure a sex change lightly. That they almost decide on Monday they might like a sex change, and are under the knife by Friday. If I thought anyone would take any notice I'd ask any of the trans people in the thread to elaborate just how much time and how many steps were involved between deciding they were trans and actually starting GRT.

 

[elephunky]

To understand transgender you really have to research it and look at what peer reviewed psychology says about it.

 

[Armoured]

To understand transgender you really have to research it and look at what peer reviewed psychology says about it.

Indeed. Whereas Sky seems to think a single discredited NARTH psychiatrist is the best place to get an understanding of the subject.

 

[elephunky]

Indeed. Whereas Sky seems to think a single discredited NARTH psychiatrist is the best place to get an understanding of the subject.

Eesh :/

 

[Autumnleaf]

To understand transgender you really have to research it and look at what peer reviewed psychology says about it.

Peer reviewed psychology? That is always changing with the political winds. Homosexuality used to be classified as a disorder according to the DSM, now its not. Did the truth change, or did something else happen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders

"While the DSM has been praised for standardizing psychiatric diagnostic categories and criteria, it has also generated controversy and criticism. Critics, including the National Institute of Mental Health, argue that the DSM represents an unscientific and subjective system.[1] There are ongoing issues concerning the validity and reliability of the diagnostic categories; the reliance on superficial symptoms; the use of artificial dividing lines between categories and from ‘normality’; possible cultural bias; medicalization of human distress.[2][3][4][5][6] The publication of the DSM, with tightly guarded copyrights, now makes APA over $5 million a year, historically totaling over $100 million.[7]"

 

[Armoured]

Peer reviewed psychology? That is always changing with the political winds. Homosexuality used to be classified as a disorder according to the DSM, now its not. Did the truth change, or did something else happen?

Something else happened. Science adjusts as new information comes to light. It's why we're not still bleeding people with leeches to balance the humours.

Side note: I am constantly bemused by how difficult some people find it to cope with the idea of knowledge being iteratively progressive.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Something else happened. Science adjusts as new information comes to light. It's why we're not still bleeding people with leeches to balance the humours.

Really?

HowStuffWorks "Are leeches being used in modern medicine?"

"These days, leeches are used to help heal skin grafts -- the process for treating burns in which blood tissue is transferred from one part of the body to another -- by removing blood pooled under the graft and restoring blood circulation in blocked veins. They've also been used in reattaching fingers and other body parts [sources: MSNBC, PBS]."

Side note: I am constantly bemused by how difficult some people find it to cope with the idea of knowledge being iteratively progressive.

I am constantly bemused by how difficult some people find it to cope with the idea of ancient knowledge being based on useful facts.

 

[Armoured]

Really?

HowStuffWorks "Are leeches being used in modern medicine?"

"These days, leeches are used to help heal skin grafts -- the process for treating burns in which blood tissue is transferred from one part of the body to another -- by removing blood pooled under the graft and restoring blood circulation in blocked veins. They've also been used in reattaching fingers and other body parts [sources: MSNBC, PBS]."



I am constantly bemused by how difficult some people find it to cope with the idea of ancient knowledge being based on useful facts.

Yeah, good one. Modern medical use of leeches aren't for "balancing humours", are they? There's plenty of ancient knowledge that has a sound basis and is still used in modern medicine. Take willow bark, for instance. But there is a difference between accepting that sometimes ancient knowledge is correct, and insisting that all ancient knowledge is correct and must never, ever be updated.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Yeah, good one. Modern medical use of leeches aren't for "balancing humours", are they? There's plenty of ancient knowledge that has a sound basis and is still used in modern medicine. Take willow bark, for instance. But there is a difference between accepting that sometimes ancient knowledge is correct, and insisting that all ancient knowledge is correct and must never, ever be updated.

Fine. Show me research that says transgender people are better off than they were before they were allowed to mutilate themselves and pretend to be what they are not ie live a lie.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Need some help?

Trans suicide: We aren’t stopping the epidemic.

"If any other population attempted suicide as frequently as trans people, the government would declare a public health crisis. According to a new study by the Williams Institute and the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, 46 percent of trans men and 42 percent of trans women in the United States have attempted suicide. That’s far higher than the 4.6 percent national average, and more than double the 10–20 percent of gay and lesbian people who report a suicide attempt. And the numbers only get bleaker from there, revealing that trans people also experience homelessness, domestic violence, mental illness, sexual abuse, and employment discrimination at vastly higher levels than the general population."

The lesson here seems to be that letting people who are unhappy with themselves do whatever they want doesn't help them. It enables them to get even more mixed up than they were before.

Why does it take a Christian to point this stuff out? Do the people who tell people to go ahead and get surgery and hormones care about the people they are encouraging or is it something else?

 

[Autumnleaf]

double post

 

[elephunky]

Something else happened. Science adjusts as new information comes to light. It's why we're not still bleeding people with leeches to balance the humours.

Side note: I am constantly bemused by how difficult some people find it to cope with the idea of knowledge being iteratively progressive.

This is what I would have said. More research and studies are conducted to understand psychology, health etc. As new information come to light, things need to be changed. They used to drill holes in peoples head because they thought depression was caused by evil spirits and that putting a hole in the head would let the spirit out. I sure am glad they do not do this anymore.

 

[elephunky]

double post

It is not the gender identity or sexuality that drives them to this point. It is how society and the people around them react to them and treat them.

 

[Armoured]

Fine. Show me research that says transgender people are better off than they were before they were allowed to mutilate themselves and pretend to be what they are not ie live a lie.

Enjoy.

PLOS ONE: Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden

I await your pending handwave with baited breath.