Is transgender a lie?

[abacabb3]

Again the hang up that being transexual necessitates homosexual activity.

Again, I never said that. As long as someone does not actually sin, they are not being disobedient to God when it pertains to this matter.

 

[GenetoJean]

We all have different crosses to bare. Quite frankly, God gives some more difficult problems than others. Some people are paralyzed, for example. Many die for their faith, such as in Muslim countries. God does not always make it easy, in fact, He promises us persecutions.

Personally, I am not going to judge someone who cross dresses (though I have biblical reason against outward adornment like jewelry and make up but that's a different story.) However, the Bible does not condone men having sex with other men or women having sex with other women. I don't believe in mutilating one's body. Further, if you are born with a man's voice but feel compelled to play make believe women's voice, that is also equivalent to lying.

So, it sucks to have such a mental illness but we don't want our problems to compel us to sin out of obedience to God.

I have had no sexual desire for years now. I never did really to begin with.

I understand that you feel that what I am doing is a sin but I dont. I appreciate anyone that genuinely tries to "save" me but, so far, I am convicted that I am doing the right thing.

 

[abacabb3]

The Bible also says not wear mixed fabrics, eat with foreigners, or work on the Sabbath. Yet you guys are compelled to ignore those.

Being that you are Jewish, you misunderstand how Christians view covenants. It is my firm belief that when you look at the Law, you react to it by seeing that you cannot fulfill its requirements. So, the Law points us to GOd's mercy, because apart from mercy we cannot be saved. THe Law points to Christ and CHrist has fully satisfied the Law for all who believe in Him.

 

[abacabb3]

I have had no sexual desire for years now. I never did really to begin with.

I understand that you feel that what I am doing is a sin but I dont. I appreciate anyone that genuinely tries to "save" me but, so far, I am convicted that I am doing the right thing.

My opinion does not really matter, and to be honest, you probably don't even want to understand my opinion because you want to do what is right in your own eyes. As for me, I want to do what is right in GOd's eyes, not my own, I am a bad man.

Again, it is no sin to think you are another gender, especially when it is not coupled with any other sexual sins. As long as you don't lie to people about your actual gender and speak with a fake voice, then I see nothing wrong, I just feel badly for you as it is difficult to have such feelings. Again, I know schizophrenics very close to me, it is very sad, and we all have our own crosses to bear.

 

[South Bound]

Being that you are Jewish, you misunderstand how Christians view covenants. It is my firm belief that when you look at the Law, you react to it by seeing that you cannot fulfill its requirements. So, the Law points us to GOd's mercy, because apart from mercy we cannot be saved. THe Law points to Christ and CHrist has fully satisfied the Law for all who believe in Him.

I agree. He sees the law as someone who is condemned by the law, but we see the law as people who have died to the law and made alive in Christ. Over and over in scripture, Paul explains that Christ fulfilled the law on our behalf because we were unable to do so. In Galatians, he has to warn them constantly, "Stop going back to the law. You've been freed from the law."

If righteousness could be won through observing the law, then what is the point of Christ's death?

 

[GenetoJean]

My opinion does not really matter, and to be honest, you probably don't even want to understand my opinion because you want to do what is right in your own eyes. As for me, I want to do what is right in GOd's eyes, not my own, I am a bad man.

Again, it is no sin to think you are another gender, especially when it is not coupled with any other sexual sins. As long as you don't lie to people about your actual gender and speak with a fake voice, then I see nothing wrong, I just feel badly for you as it is difficult to have such feelings. Again, I know schizophrenics very close to me, it is very sad, and we all have our own crosses to bear.

I do want to do what is right in God's eyes. IF I could have had some relief from my confusion, depression, and self hate without transitioning, I would. I feel I am doing what God wants me to do.

I am a firm believer in being truthful with people. I dont introduce myself by saying "Hi, my name is XXXX and I am transgender". However, before my friendship with people goes too far, they know I am transgender. I also would NEVER go on a date with anyone without them knowing.

 

[South Bound]

I do want to do what is right in God's eyes. IF I could have had some relief from my confusion, depression, and self hate without transitioning, I would. I feel I am doing what God wants me to do.

Christ offers you relief. But you have to be willing to repent and put down your sin.

Why would you feel you're doing what God wants you to do, when God calls it a sin? Why would Jesus say that God made them male and female, but then say God wants you to live as if there is no distinction?

 

[FireDragon76]

Those cases in Denvet's post are extremely rare and do not represent all cases

If I am a male, I am a male regardless of what I identify as.

So what if they are rare? Does that justify a hardness of heart where we do not seriously look at these issues?

 

[GenetoJean]

Christ offers you relief. But you have to be willing to repent and put down your sin.

Why would you feel you're doing what God wants you to do, when God calls it a sin? Why would Jesus say that God made them male and female, but then say God wants you to live as if there is no distinction?

I lived 43 years of my life trying to repent for feelings and thoughts and no relief came.

I dont believe God calls it a sin and if Jesus said that then I guess God made them male and female. He also made them without any numerous other problems that humans have now.

 

[Cute Tink]

I suggest you read up on history.

Are you suggesting that he performed GRS operations for people who were under the care of psychologists and who were diagnosed as gender dysphoric who sought him out and received the care that they asked for?

 

[Cute Tink]

First and foremost, you need to acknowledge your sin and repent.

Its harmful to you, personally, for several reasons.

The one I believe is most relevant to our conversation is that it's a sin that puts you in spiritual jeopardy. Biblically, transgenderism is in the same category of homosexuality and the Bible is very clear that homosexuals, or variants thereof, will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I would honestly like to know how transsexuality and homosexuality are the same (short of the core term "sexuality").

I don't believe so. I believe that when we repent of our sin and receive Christ and submit to His Lordship, that brings joy and freedom, not depression.

You're already in bondage to your sin. Is repentance really worse than that?

What was I repenting before (or in need of repentance) before I started transition? At that point I was living, expressing myself and dressing as a male in relationships with females. Other than being suicidally depressed (not acting on it at the time), please tell me what I needed to repent.

Lots of people believe. The problem is that your previous post shows that, while you may have had a belief in God, you didn't understand the Gospel and it's the Gospel that is the mechanism by which God saves sinners.

I didn't actually state here why I stopped believing.

 

[FireDragon76]

Christ offers you relief. But you have to be willing to repent and put down your sin.

Why would you feel you're doing what God wants you to do, when God calls it a sin? Why would Jesus say that God made them male and female, but then say God wants you to live as if there is no distinction?

South, your behavior, not hers, is what should be questioned as sinful. You don't know GenetoJean and you are not her pastor, so it's not your place to point out her sins. I've interacted with her on the forums and exchanged messages with her several times, and I see no evidence that she has not repented. She's struggled for years playing by your standards about how it should work, just "pray it away", and it didn't. So why don't you cut her some slack? Maybe your ideas about how God works needs some reconsideration.

 

[South Bound]

I lived 43 years of my life trying to repent for feelings and thoughts and no relief came.

You say you tried to repent, but the fact that you now say you've embraced your sin shows that you didn't.

You seem to have this idea that repentance just means, "Well, I'll just try to do better tomorrow". It doesn't. If that's all you've been doing, then it's no wonder that you describe emotional distress and mental anguish.

Anybody would feel those things if they tried to carry the burden of their sin on themselves. That's why Jesus tells us that He will give us His light yoke for our heavy yoke.

I dont believe God calls it a sin

Thus, further showing that you didn't repent.

South, your behavior, not hers, is what should be questioned as sinful. You don't know GenetoJean and you are not her pastor, so it's not your place to point out her sins.

First of all, don't worry. The irony of you criticizing me for calling behavior sinful, while calling my behavior sinful, wasn't lost on me.

Second, I'm not pointing out his sin. He's made his sin very public and has talked about it in numerous posts.

I've interacted with her on the forums and exchanged messages with her several times, and I see no evidence that she has not repented.

Then why is he embracing his sin?

She's struggled for years playing by your standards about how it should work, just "pray it away", and it didn't.

Actually, that's not my standard and it certainly isn't God's. "Pray the gay away" isn't a Biblical concept. It's something homosexuals came up with to mock Christians.

You might try listening to what I say, rather than attributing words to me because I disagree with you.

So why don't you cut her some slack? Maybe your ideas about how God works needs some reconsideration.

When God changes His Word, then I'll change my ideas.

 

[Paradoxum]

It's not important to me, it has to do with X and Y chromosomes and hormonal balance.

That's a relatively new definition of male and female. It isn't necessary to define sex/gender that way. For example, if someone, who is clearly female in other ways, is born without a womb, we would still consider them female.

What if the XX genes don't express what is typical of them? Which gene expressions are necessary to be female? Remember that there is always variation in our chromosomes, so there are no perfectly 'correct' XX chromosomes.

If that is the case, then it seems there are certain genes in the XX that you consider defining of being female... not the whole thing (because difference X chromosomes are different).

It is indisputable and ignorant to same there is no such thing as males and females. Females are born with a uterus for example, men aren't.

Not all females are... but they can still be female in every other way.

It is the epitmoe of ignorance to say otherwise, it is like calling a dog a lion or something like that. Is veritably false.

A dog born with three legs (if that is possible) is still a dog. A dog with no legs would probably still be considered a dog. We allow for variation in our definitions.

 

[GenetoJean]

You say you tried to repent, but the fact that you now say you've embraced your sin shows that you didn't.

You seem to have this idea that repentance just means, "Well, I'll just try to do better tomorrow". It doesn't. If that's all you've been doing, then it's no wonder that you describe emotional distress and mental anguish.

Anybody would feel those things if they tried to carry the burden of their sin on themselves. That's why Jesus tells us that He will give us His light yoke for our heavy yoke.

Thus, further showing that you didn't repent.

At the time, I did feel that I was a living sin. From the age of about 12 until around age 43, I lived life knowing I was going to Hell because of my thoughts and my being effiminate. I learned to hate myself because of it.

I know trying to discuss salvation with a fundamental Christian is a failing endevour because of the self-fulfilling prophecy of "you dont think the way I do so therefore you arent saved/repentant/have-the-Holy-Ghost" so I keep such discussions short.

 

[FireDragon76]

What makes people think being transgender is sinful at all? The "bodily mutilation" aspect is not Scriptural. The Bible talks about eunuchs and it was an accepted custom in Israel... how is that any different from someone taking hormones and undergoing surgery? Both are taking something that was there at birth and getting rid of it or changing it.

We could extend this logic further... wearing glasses is going against God's creation, because obviously he "created" the nearsightetd that way. Maybe we should not have hearing aids either. This sort of reasoning is a faulty use of natural law ethics, as is condemning someone for literally trying to be more comfortable in their own skin (doesn't everyone try to do this?)

 

[GenetoJean]

Actually, that's not my standard and it certainly isn't God's. "Pray the gay away" isn't a Biblical concept. It's something homosexuals came up with to mock Christians.

You might try listening to what I say, rather than attributing words to me because I disagree with you.

When God changes His Word, then I'll change my ideas.

I know this was more directed at someone else but I listen to other Christians all the time. Anytime one wants to discuss topics with me I listen. I keep challenging my belief to make sure I am doing what God wants me to.

 

[South Bound]

At the time, I did feel that I was a living sin. From the age of about 12 until around age 43, I lived life knowing I was going to Hell because of my thoughts and my being effiminate. I learned to hate myself because of it.

"Effeminate" is subjective, so let's put that one aside for right now.

I know trying to discuss salvation with a fundamental Christian is a failing endevour because of the self-fulfilling prophecy of "you dont think the way I do so therefore you arent saved/repentant/have-the-Holy-Ghost" so I keep such discussions short.

You realize I'm not a fundamentalist, right? Also, you realize I haven't said anything even remotely like "you dont think the way I do so therefore you aren't saved/repentant/have-the-Holy-Ghost", right?

For somebody who complains so much about being judged, you sure are quick to judge me without even listening to what I have to say.

I know this was more directed at someone else but I listen to other Christians all the time. Anytime one wants to discuss topics with me I listen. I keep challenging my belief to make sure I am doing what God wants me to.

I don't know. If you'd listened to what I said, rather than just assuming because you disagree with me, I don't think you'd have attributed words to me that I never said.

It is such a big part of my childhood in the church that it cant just be put aside.

Actually, I say that to try to cut you some slack. If you really want to go down that road, we will, but I don't think it would be fair to you.

You didnt say, "Thus, further showing that you didn't repent"?

Yep. That's exactly what I said. The problem, though, is that that's not even remotely what you claimed I said. You said that I said "you dont think the way I do so therefore you aren't saved/repentant/have-the-Holy-Ghost", which I did not.

You didnt say, "Thus, further showing that you didn't repent"?

See above.

What makes people think being transgender is sinful at all?

The Bible's teaching about sexuality and the nature and role of the sexes.

The "bodily mutilation" aspect is not Scriptural. The Bible talks about eunuchs and it was an accepted custom in Israel... how is that any different from someone taking hormones and undergoing surgery? Both are taking something that was there at birth and getting rid of it or changing it.

That's true. But the difference is that the enuch in Israel was for the purpose of serving the king, not for blurring the lines between the sexes or pretending to be another sex.

We could extend this logic further... wearing glasses is going against God's creation, because obviously he "created" the nearsightetd that way.

First of all, we know that God didn't create the nearsighted to be nearsighted because the book of Romans (Romans 5) tells us that sin, death, disease, entered the world as the result of Adam's sin, not God's design.

Second, the Bible teaches that medicine is a "common grace" and gift from God.

Third, we have numerous examples in scripture of the blind being healed.

Maybe we should not have hearing aids either.

See above.

This sort of reasoning is a faulty use of natural law ethics

I agree. However, so far, the only one using this faulty logic is you.

as is condemning someone for literally trying to be more comfortable in their own skin (doesn't everyone try to do this?)

The Bible doesn't condemn anyone for "trying to be more comfortable in their own skin". It calls homosexuality a sin and this (transgenderism) falls in that category.

And the Bible is equally clear that there is forgiveness for both the homosexual and the transgender, if they'll repent.

That's right--transgenders have a birth defect!

I disagree. Transgenderism is a mental and emotional issue, not a physical issue.

You finally get it--birth defect!!

Except that I never said it was a birth defect. I said that hermaphroditism is a birth defect, not transgenderism.

Does a 2 year old have perverted ideas?

Yes.

"The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies." - Psalm 58:3

"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." - Ps 51:5

If you don't think children are sinners, try going to a playground sometime. You'll see every sin known to man acted out.

Coveting: "I was here first!"

Greed: "Mine!"

Disobedience: "I don't wanna go home"; "NO!"

Lying: "I didn't do it!"

 

[FireDragon76]

You realize I'm not a fundamentalist, right? Also, you realize I haven't said anything even remotely like "you dont think the way I do so therefore you aren't saved/repentant/have-the-Holy-Ghost", right?.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... it's a duck.

 

[mmksparbud]

So, because a two year old had gender confusion, that means she should be indulged?

You do realize that gender confusion is very common in small children,

particularly little boys, because, in our culture, they tend to only have women caregivers, right?



That's not transgender. That's a birth defect.

That's right--transgenders have a birth defect!! Born with the wrong plumbing--like babies have been born with 2 heads--on one body--so which one is male and which one is female if the one body is female, what makes you think the other head is not male??? You finally get it--birth defect!!

What about the other questions I asked about??