Is transgender a lie?

[abacabb3]

I'm sorry, but you need to do your research. Seriously. I don't think you will though, based on how you've stated things here.

I don't need to research XX and XY chromosomes, sorry. 1+1=2, I don't need to research that.

What, exactly, do you see as the connection to this statement and the statement it was used as a response to?

He butchered people for a living.

 

[abacabb3]

You talk about mental illness, but what if they arn't, alot of science is showing that the mental sex and physical sexes arn't always completly related, if someone is mentally female, but physically male it's not a mental illness, their brains are working 100% functionally the way it should, they just have the functionality of the brain that doesn't match the body.

Sexuality is subjective, so I distrust any "science" that tries to demonstrate things such as people being born with proclivities for anything, sexual or what not. EMotions are hard to understand and cannot be known with certainty, unlike gender, which can be known in a demonstrable and empirical way.

 

[Devnet]

Being that this is directed to me, I have to disagree. It is as simple as chromosomes, sexual organs, and hormones. Not that any of these things individually are simplisitic, but the concept of gender is and it is irrefutable unless one resorts to sophistry.

As I said before, I've provided you with many examples of where chromosomes, sex organs, and hormones don't lead to an easy identification of "man" or "woman" even by your own definition. If I thought that listing more would make a difference, I'd do so. You refuse to deal with this.

But regardless of how you feel about this, biological truths are not "sophistry." The fact that chromosomes, sex organs, and hormones can be unclear and even contradictory is a fact that even you acknowledge, for all that you want to brush it aside as unimportant. Intersexed people exist no matter how much your ideology can't incorporate them.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

Could you please list how it is negative towards the individual and society? I haven't seen anyone do that yet.

You might be able to argue that a person who is transgender who wants to change their biological sex could suffer some individual harm if they're unable to do that (not all transgender individuals want to), but other than that? I think that it just makes some people uncomfortable. That's obviously not a good enough reason to harm someone else psychologically. It might be a good enough reason to reevaluate how you look at other human beings, actually.

 

[Cute Tink]

I don't need to research XX and XY chromosomes, sorry. 1+1=2, I don't need to research that.

This isn't the first time that I've encountered someone who knows everything, but nice to meet you. It's already been explained why chromosomes aren't everything.

He butchered people for a living.

If he was the Nazi, then your comparison is a little off.

 

[abacabb3]

This isn't the first time that I've encountered someone who knows everything, but nice to meet you. It's already been explained why chromosomes aren't everything.

I certainly don't know everything, but I know that.

If he was the Nazi, then your comparison is a little off.

I suggest you read up on history.

 

[South Bound]

So what, then, should I be praying to be done about having a mismatch between my brain and body?

First and foremost, you need to acknowledge your sin and repent.

Why is my behavior harmful?

Its harmful to you, personally, for several reasons.

The one I believe is most relevant to our conversation is that it's a sin that puts you in spiritual jeopardy. Biblically, transgenderism is in the same category of homosexuality and the Bible is very clear that homosexuals, or variants thereof, will not inherit the kingdom of God.

2. Is the end result still living through crippling depression for the rest of my life?

I don't believe so. I believe that when we repent of our sin and receive Christ and submit to His Lordship, that brings joy and freedom, not depression.

You're already in bondage to your sin. Is repentance really worse than that?

I used to believe. I don't anymore.

Lots of people believe. The problem is that your previous post shows that, while you may have had a belief in God, you didn't understand the Gospel and it's the Gospel that is the mechanism by which God saves sinners.

 

[abacabb3]

As I said before, I've provided you with many examples of where chromosomes, sex organs, and hormones don't lead to an easy identification of "man" or "woman" even by your own definition. If I thought that listing more would make a difference, I'd do so. You refuse to deal with this.

SImply speaking, it is without debate that XX chromosome=female. It has nothing to do with your emotions or anything. If a doctor is choosing gender, this is how he would identify an embryo.

The fact of the matter is, in order for you to put this into question, you point to syndromes and mutations, which are not the rule or norm, but the exception. DO you deny this?

But regardless of how you feel about this, biological truths are not "sophistry."

Misattributing syndromes to be over-arching arguments against what determines gender is.

The fact that chromosomes, sex organs, and hormones can be unclear and even contradictory is a fact that even you acknowledge, for all that you want to brush it aside as unimportant. Intersexed people exist no matter how much your ideology can't incorporate them.

Hermaphrodites are not male nor female...they are hermaphrodites. They are in effect a kind of mutant. It does not make them bad people, any more than it makes someone born blind or a midget bad. However, these things are not the norm, they are exceptions and they do not dictate to us what gender is.

 

[Armoured]

The one I believe is most relevant to our conversation is that it's a sin that puts you in spiritual jeopardy. Biblically, transgenderism is in the same category of homosexuality and the Bible is very clear that homosexuals, or variants thereof, will not inherit the kingdom of God.

What possible basis is there to assume that merely being transexual is worthy of the same condemnation reserved for homosexual acts? Hmmm?

 

[Syd the Human]

First and foremost, you need to acknowledge your sin and repent.



Its harmful to you, personally, for several reasons.

The one I believe is most relevant to our conversation is that it's a sin that puts you in spiritual jeopardy. Biblically, transgenderism is in the same category of homosexuality and the Bible is very clear that homosexuals, or variants thereof, will not inherit the kingdom of God.



I don't believe so. I believe that when we repent of our sin and receive Christ and submit to His Lordship, that brings joy and freedom, not depression.

You're already in bondage to your sin. Is repentance really worse than that?



Lots of people believe. The problem is that your previous post shows that, while you may have had a belief in God, you didn't understand the Gospel and it's the Gospel that is the mechanism by which God saves sinners.

Ok so it has to do with the christian god? Alright then, for that to be relevant to those outside of the christian faith that your god is real. But that's for another thread, please don't derail this I was just explaining.

Do you have any reasons outside of the belief in the christian god?

 

[Armoured]

Ok so it has to do with the christian god? Alright then, for that to be relevant to those outside of the christian faith that your god is real. But that's for another thread, please don't derail this I was just explaining.

Do you have any reasons outside of the belief in the christian god?

FWIW I have faith in the Christian God and I see nothing inherently wrong with transexuality per se.

 

[GenetoJean]

I have posted this several times and my blog goes into it in more details but here is why I am transitioning. I lived as a male for the first 43 years of my life praying that God would show me what it is that I am not understanding or how to live as a male. I failed utterly. I was constantly depressed and barely kept myself employed. I was fired several times matter of fact. I went to several preachers and they just suggested I pray and go do manly things. That didnt work. I went to a couple of Christian based therapists and they suggested I join men's groups at church and pointed out things in my childhood that might have caused it. Still no help with my depression and hate of myself. I finally found a gender therapist and she helped me understand about what transgender and transexualism is. Since I have started transitioning, I am a happier more productive person. I feel closer to God then I ever have and feel He wants me to bring His love to the LGBT community.

If I have a mental illness, then all I ever wanted was relief. Transitioning is giving me the relief nothing else has.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

FWIW I have faith in the Christian God and I see nothing inherently wrong with transexuality per se.

The issue isn't primarily whether belief in the Christian God mandates believing that being transgender is morally wrong (obviously some people believe in the Christian God and do not share that view). Really, it has more to do with the fact that literally the only argument that being transgender is harmful in itself (as opposed to being harmful as a result of discrimination, or due to a lack of access to appropriate resources) stems from religious beliefs of a sort that, if you don't share them, are really not terribly convincing.

 

[abacabb3]

If I have a mental illness, then all I ever wanted was relief. Transitioning is giving me the relief nothing else has.

We all have different crosses to bare. Quite frankly, God gives some more difficult problems than others. Some people are paralyzed, for example. Many die for their faith, such as in Muslim countries. God does not always make it easy, in fact, He promises us persecutions.

Personally, I am not going to judge someone who cross dresses (though I have biblical reason against outward adornment like jewelry and make up but that's a different story.) However, the Bible does not condone men having sex with other men or women having sex with other women. I don't believe in mutilating one's body. Further, if you are born with a man's voice but feel compelled to play make believe women's voice, that is also equivalent to lying.

So, it sucks to have such a mental illness but we don't want our problems to compel us to sin out of obedience to God.

 

[Marius27]

Well this thread is pretty depressing. Why do people deny medical conditions that the medical profession as a whole diagnose? That treatment (including but not limited to surgery) has been shown to help. The treatment works, so why judge people for it? What's the gain?

Why not just love people unconditionally?

Because far too many Christians don't actually follow Christ. See the examples of people calling transgendered diseased perverts. "By their fruits you shall know them". We know those people are not acting like Christians.

 

[Marius27]

We all have different crosses to bare. Quite frankly, God gives some more difficult problems than others. Some people are paralyzed, for example. Many die for their faith, such as in Muslim countries. God does not always make it easy, in fact, He promises us persecutions.

Personally, I am not going to judge someone who cross dresses (though I have biblical reason against outward adornment like jewelry and make up but that's a different story.) However, the Bible does not condone men having sex with other men or women having sex with other women. I don't believe in mutilating one's body. Further, if you are born with a man's voice but feel compelled to play make believe women's voice, that is also equivalent to lying.

So, it sucks to have such a mental illness but we don't want our problems to compel us to sin out of obedience to God.

The Bible also says not wear mixed fabrics, eat with foreigners, or work on the Sabbath. Yet you guys are compelled to ignore those.

 

[Armoured]

We all have different crosses to bare. Quite frankly, God gives some more difficult problems than others. Some people are paralyzed, for example. Many die for their faith, such as in Muslim countries. God does not always make it easy, in fact, He promises us persecutions.

Personally, I am not going to judge someone who cross dresses (though I have biblical reason against outward adornment like jewelry and make up but that's a different story.) However, the Bible does not condone men having sex with other men or women having sex with other women. I don't believe in mutilating one's body. Further, if you are born with a man's voice but feel compelled to play make believe women's voice, that is also equivalent to lying.

So, it sucks to have such a mental illness but we don't want our problems to compel us to sin out of obedience to God.

Again the hang up that being transexual necessitates homosexual activity.

 

[Marius27]

I certainly don't know everything, but I know that.

You apparently ignore all the other chromosomal conditions like triple X, XXY, XYY, etc.

You clearly know nothing about this topic, so I would suggest you stop pretending like you do.

 

[abacabb3]

Because far too many Christians don't actually follow Christ. See the examples of people calling transgendered diseased perverts. "By their fruits you shall know them". We know those people are not acting like Christians.

Who called them that? WHat's wrong with having a mental illness?

 

[abacabb3]

You apparently ignore all the other chromosomal conditions like triple X, XXY, XYY, etc.

You clearly know nothing about this topic, so I would suggest you stop pretending like you do.

Never pretended that I do. I think that you are for moral reasons imposing upon elementary scientific principles, pretending that exceptions dictate gender, when it is the other way around. Genetic norms dictate our understanding of the matter.