Originally posted by davo
How simple is it to believe Jesus' words -how more simple for his hearers to believe his words, unless you believe Jesus was lying to them
I'll get back to this in a moment.
Example #1 of how the preterist takes the word "YOU" and applies different rules to it than to any other word or verse in the rest of the passage.
Originally posted by davo
I'm not sure how you reason Alexander the Great from 3-4 centuries before into 70AD -but I have noticed that with Futurism many things are possible. The ALL THINGS is in referrence to ALL the verses before that Jesus just stated would occur in that generation of hearers. And not only that but other OT prophecies about the coming in of the New Covenant.
It doesn't say ALL THE PREVIOUS VERSES THAT YOU'll EVENTUALLY WRITE. It says ALL THAT HAS BEEN WRITTEN (past tense). Included in ALL THAT HAS BEEN WRITTEN is the fact that the sun will go dark, the moon will turn to the color of blood, the sky will recede like a scroll, etc., which always refers to the Day of the Lord. More on that in a moment.
Example #2 of how the preterist takes the word "YOU" and applies different rules to it than to any other word or verse in the rest of the passage.
Originally posted by davo
Once again the text in context and logic provides the answer. The THEY is none other than Jesus' audience -how simple to believe. The parallel Mt 24:30 mentions "the tribes of the earth" [Gk earth=Land, hence "tribes" -of what? -the Land of ISRAEL!
You are implying that "tribes" cannot possibly apply to any tribes other than the tribes of Israel (I'd say 12 tribes, but although there are 12 at any one time, the tribes themselves change.) There are and were other tribes besides tribes of Israel, you know. How can we know if your interpretation is correct? Well, it MIGHT be correct if it wasn't contradicted by other passages. It is. Here's a parallel passage from Revelation that gets VERY specific about who THEY are:
The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.
15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"
Example #3 of how the preterist takes the word "YOU" and applies different rules to it than to any other word or verse in the rest of the passage.
Originally posted by davo
Do a study of God's coming in judgment throughout the OT and you'll find some describe it in terms of "coming on the clouds" -they were ALL literal WITHOUT necessitating "physicality."
"How simple is it to believe Jesus' words -how more simple for his hearers to believe his words, unless you believe Jesus was lying to them."
IMO, Jesus would have been lying to them if Jesus returned in 70AD. How simple it is to believe Jesus' words that we would SEE Him coming in power and great glory on the Day of the Lord! Especially since this description of events is clearly written in both OT and NT. Yet you take TWO WORDS, "YOU" and "GENERATION" and interpret them in a way that precludes the plain and simple interpretation of a myriad of verses whose plain and simple meaning contradict your conclusions. And the contradictory verse in this case (seeing Jesus return on the Day of the Lord) has MANY MORE confirming parallel occurrances in the OT AND NT than the "YOU" and "GENERATION" to which you so frequently refer.
Does that mean you are wrong about "YOU" and "GENERATION"? Not necessarily. That's not what I'm saying. There may be a way to harmonize both - I'm not certain.
But here's the problem in a nutshell.
The Bible -- both the OT and NT -- takes many liberties with language. Isaiah records many of the prophecies about Jesus in the past tense, for example, yet we know that these were not fulfilled until after Jesus was born.
Therefore it is quite POSSIBLE that the "YOU" to which Jesus refers is his immediate audience, but it could also mean "YOU JEWS" or "YOU READERS OF THIS GOSPEL". Certainly Jesus knew it would be written -- he directs such things. Similarly, the greek word "genea" for GENERATION could easily be interpreted as "THIS LIVING GENERATION" or "RACE OF JEWS".
You can certainly claim that there is only one interpretation -- the one you think is plain and simple. But it is hypocritical to turn around and ignore the plain and simple interpretation of a verse that appears just a few verses later, especially when that verse is repeated so many times throughout the Bible in almost the same way.
So what's my point?
Please stop claiming you have the exclusive true interpretation of the Bible. You ARE interpreting the text properly in some cases but in other cases you are not only torturing the text, you're ripping it limb from limb and gouging out its spleen with a plastic fork. My advice is to just chill out. You may be right about some things, and the futurists may be right about some things, too. We'll all find out sooner or later. In the meantime, stop worrying about what others will think about Jesus and prophecy. You're not in charge, God is. I trust that God will see his plan to fruition with or without your (or my) help.
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