Is this statement about Mary blasphemous?

[boswd]

:owell this is new, I didnt know that you have been given the ability to know the thoughts of our heart, I thought that was something only God can do...

hmm pot calling kettle? You guys claim Catholics worship Mary and are idol worshippers based on what you think you see.

Just take your own llittle test. Outside of Christmas, see how many times your church Pastor brings up Mary in a positive light during his or her sermons.

I think it's quite telling.

 

[shinbits]

Thus, a remarkable thing is announced in Genesis.

"Her seed" is a possessive; it demonstrates ownership, belonging to her.

You're missing the point. "Seed" isn't being used how you think it is. Let's bring up the same passage you used:

Genesis 3:15:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;

In the same sentence, God says they both have seed. Do we take this to mean that Satan has conceived as well? Did he get pregnant, or impregnant someone? Or...does Satan have an "egg" as well?

Obviously, God isn't refering to a direct product of Mary, since He also refers to Satan's "seed" in the same sentence.

 

[boswd]

:owell this is new, I didnt know that you have been given the ability to know the thoughts of our heart, I thought that was something only God can do...

but in all fairness I do believe the lack of respect and honor toward the Blessed Mary had more to do with over compensation of the animosity most Evangelicals have towards Catholics and their views of her than with an actually dislike of her.
She is I guess is a casuality of this delusional war Evangelicals have waged against Catholics in this modern times.

 

[Thekla]

You're missing the point. "Seed" isn't being used how you think it is. Let's bring up the same passage you used:

Genesis 3:15:

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;

In the same sentence, God says they both have seed. Do we take this to mean that Satan has conceived as well? Did he get pregnant, or impregnant someone? Or...does Satan have an "egg" as well?

Obviously, God isn't refering to a direct product of Mary, since He also refers to Satan's "seed" in the same sentence.

Satan sows seeds of evil thoughts, slander, temptations. Satan indeed has "seed"; he is the father of lies.

What seed does the woman have in your view ?

 

[boswd]

Most of the posters here, including myself, are not (Roman) Catholic; we cannot answer what the Pope has said.

We are responding to the other statements made here.

The Bible clearly states that Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ, and the she conceived Him by the Holy Spirit. We believe that Jesus Christ is God, the second person of the Holy Trinity.

any other belief is unorthodox Christianity and is man made

 

[shinbits]

why are you asking? your mind is already made up and your question has been answered on the first page. But you don't like that answer because it's not your answer so you contiue to say it hasn't been answered.

There's a difference between responding to and actually giving an answer. If I asked "why are bears dangerous", and someone said "well, everyone knows bears are furry and hibernate". Does that response answer the question? Or what if someone responded "bears are dangerous because they must store enough fat to hibernate all winter"? Is that an "answer"? No.

Likewise, with the OP. The "answers" given have been pointed out to be logically fallacious, just like in the example above. Thus, no "answer" has really been given.

When in fact it actually has been by Catherianne. She showed you in context it's meaning and the reasoning behind it.
but you don't care, you have your pre conceived notion Ohh look at that word conceived and no answer but your own answer is the only one acceptable to you.

See above.

That's fact so lets just stop your charade of trying to inquire of what is behind the OP shall we.

You are proof of what I've said. Remember when it was pointed out that you misread my post? You didn't even adress your mistake. You just kept on posting fallacious arguments. And remember that circular argument that you made? When pointed out that it was circular, you adressed by MISREADING my post.

You STILL haven't acknowledged your mistake. Neither have the others on your side of the issue, who've made equally fallacious arguements.

 

[Rose_bud]

What's funny about your reasoning is that is the reasoning why she is labeled as Queen, The mother of the King is the Queen.

And also they fact the Woman in Rev. had a crown of 12 stars but that is another debate for another thread.

I wonder why they would forget to put such an important piece of information in the BIBLE... (Queen of Heaven, quite a title)


Rev... Its definitely not Mary, that's for sure...( buts thats for another thread)

 

[Unashamed Jesus Freak]

I wonder why they would forget to put such an important piece of information in the BIBLE... (Queen of Heaven, quite a title)

There is a reference to the "Queen of Heaven" in the Bible, but it is in reference to a PAGAN goddess (Jeremiah 7:18).

Also read Jeremiah 44 where God punished the children of Israel for worshiping her.

"The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the QUEEN OF HEAVEN...that they may provoke Me to anger." (Jeremiah 7:18)

 

[Thekla]

I wonder why they would forget to put such an important piece of information in the BIBLE... (Queen of Heaven, quite a title)


Rev... Its definitely not Mary, that's for sure...( buts thats for another thread)

At the time the term was used, the mother of the king was referred to as the queen.

Thus, the term "queen of heaven" is a reference to the identity of Jesus Christ, who had myriads of angels as His servants. As Jesus Christ, who pre-existed the creation of the heavens as the pre-eternal Logos, as the second person of the Holy Trinity, as God, He is the King of heaven and earth. Paul attests that all is "re-capitulated" in Him; ie He has "headship/capit" of all things.

To call Mary queen of heaven is - in Semitic and eastern Christian terms - to identify Jesus Christ as King of Heaven, ie. the Son of God.

In more modern times, and in the west, this terminology is not understood and needs to be explained.

 

[Rose_bud]

but in all fairness I do believe the lack of respect and honor toward the Blessed Mary had more to do with over compensation of the animosity most Evangelicals have towards Catholics and their views of her than with an actually dislike of her.
She is I guess is a casuality of this delusional war Evangelicals have waged against Catholics in this modern times.

I agree not all Catholics worship Mary as, what we know as WORSHIP, but sadly there are quite a few, that put her above Christ, and use the traditions of the church to back there claims, guess this forum is the only place too find out who honours her more than Christ, and why

 

[Thekla]

There is a reference to the "Queen of Heaven" in the Bible, but it is in reference to a PAGAN goddess (Jeremiah 7:18).

Also read Jeremiah 44 where God punished the children of Israel for worshiping her.

"The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the QUEEN OF HEAVEN...that they may provoke Me to anger." (Jeremiah 7:18)

The pagans thought of their "queen of heaven" as truly a god - ie their use of the terminology falsely identified her, and the pantheon she belonged to - as deities. IE, through this terminology, they denied that God was God. By the time of Christ, to refer to a pagan deity as a "queen of heaven" would deny that Jesus Christ was God.

 

[Rose_bud]

hmm pot calling kettle? You guys claim Catholics worship Mary and are idol worshippers based on what you think you see.

Just take your own llittle test. Outside of Christmas, see how many times your church Pastor brings up Mary in a positive light during his or her sermons.

I think it's quite telling.

I call her Blessed (and just so you know I mean that), because thats the only thing she said we should call her...

 

[shinbits]

Satan sows seeds of evil thoughts, slander, temptations. Satan indeed has "seed"; he is the father of lies.

What seed does the woman have in your view ?

I think the woman's "seed" just means children she birthed by her.

 

[boswd]

I wonder why they would forget to put such an important piece of information in the BIBLE... (Queen of Heaven, quite a title)


Rev... Its definitely not Mary, that's for sure...( buts thats for another thread)

Don't know about you but I only know of one worman has given birth to a Man Child who has ruled the world. but again another thread

 

[shinbits]

Oh yeah, boswd, here's the post from that illustrates what I've been saying about your fallacious answers, as well as some (and I say some, because not all on your side of the issue are as fallacious as you've been) posters who support your Mary doctrine. I'm reposting them exactly as it first appeard. You STILL have yet to acknowledge your mistake:

I disagree with that because Jesus's Father is God, His Father's traits are his divinity, his human traits are Mary's. Mary is his Mother . God chose Mary to combine her humanity and his divinity to become God incarnate in Christ. 100% Human (Mary) and 100% Divine (God)

See, this is what I mean. You started off with using rationale to defend your position, but then when simple logic refutes what you said, you resort to logically fallacious assertions.

You disagree that Jesus didn't get his traits from Mary...and your reasons are because God "chose" her to give Jesus human traits?

Doesn't it bother you that you're using circular reasoning?
Better yet, doesn't it bother you that your doctrines about Mary are based on circular reasoning?



^ then you responded fallaciously to this post, which I adressed here:

where did I ever say Jesus didn't get any traits from Mary? I clearly said he got his humanity from her.

Oh, wow. smh.

What I was disagree with you about is you said Jesus did not get any tratis from Mary because he didn't have a human Father to give him his traits.

That's EXACTLY what I said. That you disagree with me that Jesus DIDN'T get his traits from Mary.

On top of circular logic, your reading comprehenshion seems to be lacking.

Go back and reread my post.

 

[Thekla]

I think the woman's "seed" just means children she birthed by her.

Mary birthed Jesus Christ.

Note that "her seed" is in the singular (not plural). Who tramples the head of Satan ? Jesus Christ.

 

[MamaZ]

At the time the term was used, the mother of the king was referred to as the queen.

Thus, the term "queen of heaven" is a reference to the identity of Jesus Christ, who had myriads of angels as His servants. As Jesus Christ, who pre-existed the creation of the heavens as the pre-eternal Logos, as the second person of the Holy Trinity, as God, He is the King of heaven and earth. Paul attests that all is "re-capitulated" in Him; ie He has "headship/capit" of all things.

To call Mary queen of heaven is - in Semitic and eastern Christian terms - to identify Jesus Christ as King of Heaven, ie. the Son of God.

In more modern times, and in the west, this terminology is not understood and needs to be explained.

That is according to the flesh. Gods Kingdom is not of this world. Heaven is not structured after Earth. Therefore in the Spirit we have a King and a Father but not a mother for it is the Father who cares and tends to us.

 

[shinbits]

The Church on Mary's Mediation

3) Leo XIII, Encyclical, Octobri mense adventante, Sept 22, 1891, ASS 24, 1891, 196.
"... just as no one can come to the Father except through the Son, so in general, no one can come to Christ except through His Mother."


Jesus said in John 6:44:

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him..."

So wouldn't stating that we can't come to Christ except through Mary be blasphemous, since this statement puts her in the role of God?

And doesn't putting her in this role (that we MUST go through Mary) give her a godlike status, making her an idol?

 

[Thekla]

That is according to the flesh. Gods Kingdom is not of this world. Heaven is not structured after Earth. Therefore in the Spirit we have a King and a Father but not a mother for it is the Father who cares and tends to us.

It was a way of witnessing that Jesus Christ is God. It may not be your way, but it is a way that people then would understand.

We do have "spiritual parents" on earth; Paul referred to Timothy as his son. He referred to himself as a "father". To have a spiritual parent on earth is indeed consistent with the Holy Scriptures; these are our 'spiritual directors' in the Holy Spirit.

 

[Rose_bud]

To call Mary queen of heaven is - in Semitic and eastern Christian terms - to identify Jesus Christ as King of Heaven, ie. the Son of God.

In more modern times, and in the west, this terminology is not understood and needs to be explained.

To base Christs identity on Mary's status is a problem... (before she was, He was)