Is this statement about Mary blasphemous?

[boswd]

and in case you missed it again see Theklas Post #169

 

[shinbits]

You kinda did say that in post #126

In the post you quoted, it's obvious I mean "conceived" through human means. Why else would I bring up the fact that Mary was a virgin?

So no, I didn't say that ("insting" that she didn't conceive), not even "kinda".

 

[Thekla]

If she did, that would mean Christ got traits from a sinner. The reason why God didn't want human sperm involved, is because Joseph was a sinner, like the rest of humanity. It's for this same reason that God wouldn't want to use Mary's egg.

Where do the Holy Scriptures state that Mary did not provide an egg ?

The meaning of conceive is used consistently throughout the Scriptures; it is not used synonymously with pregnant - conception results in pregnancy (hence in your provided definition 'to get pregnant').

Search the Scriptures ...

 

[shinbits]

Please provide support from the Holy Scriptures that this happened.
I have provided passages from the Scriptures that:
Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ
Mary conceived Jesus Christ

You have failed to demonstrate that conceive means that an egg is not involved.

1) You've failed to demonstrate an egg was involved. So why don't you take your own advice?

2) I explained thoroughly from the Scriptures why an egg wasn't involved: in the same way Joseph's sperm wasn't involved because Scriptures say he was a sinner, Mary's egg wasn't involved, because being human, she also was a sinner, since Scripture says that all humans descended from Adam are sinners.

So basically, you A) Are being hypocritical in asking me to do something you refuse to do, and B) Are wrong in claiming I haven't demonstrated, using Scripture, that Mary's egg wasn't involved. I did this repeatedly in this thread.

 

[Thekla]

In the post you quoted, it's obvious I mean "conceived" through human means. Why else would I bring up the fact that Mary was a virgin?

So no, I didn't say that ("insting" that she didn't conceive), not even "kinda".

I did not understand you then, sorry.
Because you also asked for a passage to demonstrate that she conceived, it seemed you were saying that Jesus was not conceived.
She did conceive, by the Holy Spirit.

Now, I am asking you to provide a passage that supports your position that the Virgin Mary did not provide an egg.

Note that the promise of the coming of Jesus Christ in Genesis 3 refers to the incarnate Jesus Christ as "her seed".
"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. " verse 15

 

[Thekla]

1) You've failed to demonstrate an egg was involved. So why don't you take your own advice?

2) I explained thoroughly from the Scriptures why an egg wasn't involved: in the same way Joseph's sperm wasn't involved because Scriptures say he was a sinner, Mary's egg wasn't involved, because being human, she also was a sinner, since Scripture says that all humans descended from Adam are sinners.

So basically, you A) Are being hypocritical in asking me to do something you refuse to do, and B) Are wrong in claiming I haven't demonstrated, using Scripture, that Mary's egg wasn't involved. I did this repeatedly in this thread.

I have provided the passages you asked for to support my position, I thought this meant you would provide the passages to support your position...
I will reiterate my previous post:

The promise of the coming of Christ in Genesis 3:15 uses the term "her seed". Conception requires a sperm and an egg; the Genesis passage refers not to an ordinary conception (typically the OT speaks of "his seed" when referring to conception).

 

[shinbits]

Where do the Holy Scriptures state that Mary did not provide an egg ?

The meaning of conceive is used consistently throughout the Scriptures; it is not used synonymously with pregnant - conception results in pregnancy (hence in your provided definition 'to get pregnant').

Search the Scriptures ...

Throughout Scripture, "conceive" has consistently meant the use of sperm. Obviously, "conceive" is used differently in the case of Mary, so obviously, you can't use the "consistently" used definitions the Bible had been using up until that point.

So what you say here doesn't matter.

 

[Rose_bud]

The reason why Mary was "the childs mother", is because God needed her to be, he called her Blessed and highly favoured, ... Jesus needed to be of a the lineage of David, so she needed to be the husband of Joseph, (Matthew1:16) so He could take up the throne of David ....The angel also says Joseph son of David... the Jewish lineage.. "salvation is of the Jews"... His lineage stems from being the Son of Mary(Luke 23-37),...when we give Mary a God like status and think that she is our High Priestess, or Mediator... it becomes a problem. Not the Queen of Heaven,but Mary wife of Joseph, Mother to Jesus... Who is the Son of Man, Son of God...

 

[boswd]

I did not understand you then, sorry.
Because you also asked for a passage to demonstrate that she conceived, it seemed you were saying that Jesus was not conceived.
She did conceive, by the Holy Spirit.

Now, I am asking you to provide a passage that supports your position that the Virgin Mary did not provide an egg.

Note that the promise of the coming of Jesus Christ in Genesis 3 refers to the incarnate Jesus Christ as "her seed".
"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. " verse 15

yeah that's the smoking gun when he wanted you to Prove it that is says she was conceived via scripture.

this is nothing more than spinning at it's finest.

 

[boswd]

The reason why Mary was "the childs mother", is because God needed her to be, he called her Blessed and highly favoured, ... Jesus needed to be of a the lineage of David, so she needed to be the husband of Joseph, (Matthew1:16) so He could take up the throne of David ....The angel also says Joseph son of David... the Jewish lineage.. "salvation is of the Jews"... His lineage stems from being the Son of Joseph (Luke 23-37),...when we give Mary a God like status and think that she is our High Priestess, or Mediator... it becomes a problem. Not the Queen of Heaven,but Mary wife of Joseph, Mother to Jesus... Who is the Son of Man, Son of God...

the only ones giving Mary God like status are you evangelicals who accuse what not you understand about others theology and their understanding of the place and roll Mary plays.

Mary is honored in Apostolic Church's and some traditional Protestant Churchs.

She is not honored at all in Evangelical Church's only in lip service but not in heart.

 

[Unashamed Jesus Freak]

The reason why Mary was "the child's mother", is because God needed her to be, he called her Blessed and highly favored, ... Jesus needed to be of a the lineage of David, so she needed to be the husband of Joseph, (Matthew1:16) so He could take up the throne of David ....The angel also says Joseph son of David... the Jewish lineage.. "salvation is of the Jews"... His lineage stems from being the Son of Joseph (Luke 23-37),...when we give Mary a God like status and think that she is our High Priestess, or Mediator... it becomes a problem. Not the Queen of Heaven,but Mary wife of Joseph, Mother to Jesus... Who is the Son of Man, Son of God...

Well said.

 

[shinbits]

I have provided the passages you asked for to support my position, I thought this meant you would provide the passages to support your position...
I will reiterate my previous post:

The promise of the coming of Christ in Genesis 3:15 uses the term "her seed". Conception requires a sperm and an egg; the Genesis passage refers not to an ordinary conception (typically the OT speaks of "his seed" when referring to conception).

"Seed" has always refered to male sperm. In every case where "seed" is used in the Bible, it's in regard to to male sperm. Men's "seed" would be sown into the woman.

Since you are big on "consistant" defintions, going by the Bible's consistant use of "seed", we know it's in regard to males. Mary isn't a male. So obviously, Mary doesn't have "seed" in the consistant way the Bible has used the term. So naturally, "seed" doesn't mean something that came from Mary, but a seed was placed in her.

 

[boswd]

The reason why Mary was "the childs mother", is because God needed her to be, he called her Blessed and highly favoured, ... Jesus needed to be of a the lineage of David, so she needed to be the husband of Joseph, (Matthew1:16) so He could take up the throne of David ....The angel also says Joseph son of David... the Jewish lineage.. "salvation is of the Jews"... His lineage stems from being the Son of Joseph (Luke 23-37),...when we give Mary a God like status and think that she is our High Priestess, or Mediator... it becomes a problem. Not the Queen of Heaven,but Mary wife of Joseph, Mother to Jesus... Who is the Son of Man, Son of God...

What's funny about your reasoning is that is the reasoning why she is labeled as Queen, The mother of the King is the Queen.

And also they fact the Woman in Rev. had a crown of 12 stars but that is another debate for another thread.

 

[boswd]

"Seed" has always refered to male sperm. In every case where "seed" is used in the Bible, it's in regard to to male sperm. Men's "seed" would be sown into the woman.

Since you are big on "consistant" defintions, going by the Bible's consistant use of "seed", we know it's in regard to males. Mary isn't a male. So obviously, Mary doesn't have "seed" in the consistant way the Bible has used the term. So naturally, "seed" doesn't mean something that came from Mary, but a seed was placed in her.

WHATT?????????????????? seed always refers to Sperm? Did you skip biology or something A seed gets fertilized, sperm is not the seed

the ovum is the seed the sperm is the fertilizer. that's Biology 101

 

[shinbits]

The Church on Mary's Mediation

3) Leo XIII, Encyclical, Octobri mense adventante, Sept 22, 1891, ASS 24, 1891, 196.
"... just as no one can come to the Father except through the Son, so in general, no one can come to Christ except through His Mother."


Jesus said in John 6:44:

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him..."

So wouldn't stating that we can't come to Christ except through Mary be blasphemous, since this statement puts her in the role of God?

And doesn't putting her in this role (that we MUST go through Mary) give her a godlike status, making her an idol?

No has adressed why this wouldn't be a blasphemous statement concerning mary, even though I quoted the OP multiple times as a reminder. That's very telling.

 

[Thekla]

"Seed" has always refered to male sperm. In every case where "seed" is used in the Bible, it's in regard to to male sperm. Men's "seed" would be sown into the woman.

Since you are big on "consistant" defintions, going by the Bible's consistant use of "seed", we know it's in regard to males. Mary isn't a male. So obviously, Mary doesn't have "seed" in the consistant way the Bible has used the term. So naturally, "seed" doesn't mean something that came from Mary, but a seed was placed in her.

Thus, a remarkable thing is announced in Genesis.

"Her seed" is a possessive; it demonstrates ownership, belonging to her.

 

[Unashamed Jesus Freak]

No one has addressed why this wouldn't be a blasphemous statement concerning Mary, even though I quoted the OP multiple times as a reminder. That's very telling.

Perhaps because they can't, because their beliefs concerning Mary contradict the Word of God? Just saying...

 

[Rose_bud]

She is not honored at all in Evangelical Church's only in lip service but not in heart.

:owell this is new, I didnt know that you have been given the ability to know the thoughts of our heart, I thought that was something only God can do...

 

[boswd]

No has adressed why this wouldn't be a blasphemous statement concerning mary, even though I quoted the OP multiple times as a reminder. That's very telling.

why are you asking? your mind is already made up and your question has been answered on the first page. But you don't like that answer because it's not your answer so you contiue to say it hasn't been answered.

When in fact it actually has been by Catherianne. She showed you in context it's meaning and the reasoning behind it.
but you don't care, you have your pre conceived notion Ohh look at that word conceived and no answer but your own answer is the only one acceptable to you.

That's fact so lets just stop your charade of trying to inquire of what is behind the OP shall we.

 

[Thekla]

Perhaps because they can't, because their beliefs concerning Mary contradict the Word of God? Just saying...

Most of the posters here, including myself, are not (Roman) Catholic; we cannot answer what the Pope has said.

We are responding to the other statements made here.

The Bible clearly states that Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ, and the she conceived Him by the Holy Spirit. We believe that Jesus Christ is God, the second person of the Holy Trinity.