Is this idea in any way biblical?

[pescador]

As Christians we are a BODY, a holy family, a communion of saints; we don't do "Just Jesus and Me." Although we are responsible to do the following three things on our own as well, the point is that we are not to divorce ourselves from the Church and its support in our pursuit. We offer our support to others in turn.

1. Piety. This is Worship, Prayer, Praise, Meditation on Christ, Examination of Concience and Confession etc. Breaking Bread is a necessary part of Piety.
2. Study. This is concentration on his Word mostly, although it can be topical as well.
3. Good works. True religion is helping Widows and Orphans. We are called to Good Works. Eph 2:10 Evangelization is part of Good Works.
4. Potlucks. Just kidding.

Jesus' disciples were anything but pious. They were ordinary men (and probably women) who were common people. They were flawed human beings, just like we are, who behaved normally. In Paul's letters it is clear that even AFTER the Holy Spirit was given, people in the various churches were not pious. Piety -- special formal behavior -- is derived from Old Testament priestly rituals, as well as pagan rituals. It was NOT part of the early church.

 

[pescador]

Although groups met in homes, each home group was part of a larger local church, organized under a bishop such as James, Timothy, or Peter, and under the authority of ordained presbyters/elders with ordained deacons/helpers. Eucharist was part of an Agape Feast, but Eucharist DID exist, and Real Presence was believed. The laying on of hands separated clergy from laity. Acts 6:6 The priesthood of all believers was distinct from the ordained presbytery/priesthood.

As an Evangelical, I made it a point to study the Early Church, and the more I studied it, the more I realized it was Catholic. It took a decade, because there were many doctrines in the Catholic church that I had problems with, but eventually I did become a Catholic, and was received into that Church which never broke the chain of laying on of hands.

I find no scriptural basis for what you say. 1) Where does it say that James, Timothy, or Peter were ordained bishops? 2) The laying on of hands did not separate clergy from laity. It merely commissioned church members to perform certain tasks, but it did not make them into a separate, special class. Remember, Stephen was a Hellenist and became the first martyr. Philip was not ordained when he spoke to the Ethiopian eunuch, but was directed by an angel. Ananias was not ordained before he laid hands on Paul, but directed by the Lord to do so. 3) Acts 6 describes a division of labor only. The Jewish leaders were overwhelmed with work so they chose certain Hellenists to perform certain tasks. There is no basis for saying that "the priesthood of all believers was distinct from the ordained presbytery/priesthood". If someone is chosen to perform a certain task, does that make them special? Are some people in Christ more important than others, or are we all equal in God's eyes as his beloved children?

 

[Paidiske]

You don't have to go anywhere on the planet to have an experience with God. You are the temple of the Holy Spirit. God lives in you as a Christian and you can retreat to him anytime and anywhere. (1 Corinthians 6:19, John 14:26)

In theory, I agree. In practice, I find retreat necessary, otherwise my focussed time gets intruded on by family demands (I have a young child with autism), by work demands, by life in general. Having somewhere I can go is a very very great blessing.

I agree there needs to be a plan, but I guess I have a different conception of structure. Structure to me is about getting the whole 100+ members involved in the process, which I think would look a little ridiculous. I believe in getting the whole church involved, just, if you have a mega church and get everyone involved I think that would also descend into chaos.

No, structure isn't necessarily about getting everyone involved in something. It's more about having a process and identifying responsible people and so forth. Take a small example; giving money. It works better if you have nominated a treasurer and that person is clear that he/she is responsible for the banking and the bookkeeping and so on. That's a structure. It doesn't happen spontaneously.

Okay, I'll ask, how do you know?

Let's just say, I've seen some churches of the "We don't need rules and structure variety, everything can just happen," and what happens is often very poor.

As to the unfolding argument about ministry in the early church (and this is very much my area of expertise) - I'd say neither of you are exactly right. It's clear that people were set apart for various roles, including leadership roles (deacons, elders, overseers), by the laying on of hands. It's possible to understand that as a form of ordination, although the hierarchy was much less settled than it is now (in many places churches were run by a committee of elder-overseers). While it is true that contemporary orders of ministry developed from this beginning, imagining that the very earliest church leaders would have understood themselves in the terms that we now apply to priests and bishops is not taking into account the best historical evidence.

 

[pescador]

Paul, who describes himself as an apostle chosen by God, also describes himself and the other apostles in 1 Corinthians 4: "For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like those condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe, to angels as well as to human beings. We are fools for Christ... We are weak... we are dishonored! To this very hour we go hungry and thirsty, we are in rags, we are brutally treated, we are homeless. We work hard with our own hands....We have become the scum of the earth, the garbage of the world—right up to this moment." Does this sound like an ordained priesthood, above the laity, somehow elevated above other Christians??

 

[Meowzltov]

Can you give me a scriptural reference for saying that James was a bishop?

All apostles were considered bishops, as their successors were bishops. Bishop means overseer. Didn't James oversee the church at Jerusalem?

"James, the brother of the Lord, to whom the episcopal seat at Jerusalem had been entrusted by the apostles". (Eusebius. Church History Book II Chapter 23:1)

"James... after our Lord's passion.. ordained by the apostles bishop of Jerusalem..." and that James "ruled the church of Jerusalem thirty years" (Jerome. De Viris Illustribus (On Illustrious Men) Chapter 2)

Where do you find support for saying that "there was an organizational structure with an ordained clergy of deacons, presbyters, and bishops".

1 Timothy 3:1-13 Bishops (Overseers) and Deacons (Helpers)
Acts 14:23, Acts 6:6 Presbyters (Elders) and Laying on of Hands (ordination)

 

[Meowzltov]

Jesus' disciples were anything but pious.

I gave a definition of Piety. Do you not think they met that definition? Do you not think they worshiped, prayed, meditated on Christ, confessed their sins, broke bread? The dictionary definition of piety is reverent. Do you not think they were reverent before God?

You used a slang definition of pious, as in sanctimonious. I didn't. You really ought to read a person's post before replying. Notice the TWO very different definitions. You have to figure out from context which one a person is using:

pi·ous
ˈpīəs/
adjective

1. devoutly religious.
   synonyms: religious, devout, God-fearing, churchgoing, spiritual,prayerful, holy, godly, saintly, dedicated, reverent, dutiful,righteous
   "a pious family"
2. making a hypocritical display of virtue.
   "there'll be no pious words said over her"
   synonyms: sanctimonious, hypocritical, insincere, self-righteous, holier-than-thou, pietistic, churchy;
   informalgoody-goody
   "pious platitudes"

 

[Sola1517]

You can't get around the fact that there was an organizational structure with an ordained clergy of deacons, presbyters, and bishops, with rites such as baptism, communion, anointing of the sick, ordination, etc.

I never said that there aren't supposed to be offices in the Church. All I'm saying is you don't need a church building or a denomination.

As Christians we are a BODY, a holy family, a communion of saints; we don't do "Just Jesus and Me." Although we are responsible to do the following three things on our own as well, the point is that we are not to divorce ourselves from the Church and its support in our pursuit. We offer our support to others in turn.

Yes, it's important to get around other believers. Yet if one is truly in Christ then they are a member of the church no matter what. You don't need to go to church to be the church.

Piety. This is Worship, Prayer, Praise, Meditation on Christ, Examination of Concience and Confession etc. Breaking Bread is a necessary part of Piety.

Yes, but we can all get together and do this without a building.

Study. This is concentration on his Word mostly, although it can be topical as well.

Yes, but we can all get together and do this without a building.

Good works. True religion is helping Widows and Orphans. We are called to Good Works. Eph 2:10 Evangelization is part of Good Works.

Yes, we can serve our community without a building. We just need to rethink how it looks.

Potlucks. Just kidding.

 

[Meowzltov]

I find no scriptural basis for what you say. 1) Where does it say that James, Timothy, or Peter were ordained bishops?

James we know from context. Bishop means overseer. Clearly from Acts 15 and Acts 21 he was the Overseer of the Church at Jerusalem. We know from Early Church Fathers that Peter was first Bishop of Antioch, and then went to Rome where he became Bishop. In general, all the apostles were considered bishops, although not all of them had bishoprics. Timothy was also the bishop of Ephesus, which is why Paul writes to him and makes reference to his ordination: " Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through prophecy when the body of elders laid their hands on you." 1 Tim 4:14

2) The laying on of hands did not separate clergy from laity. It merely commissioned church members to perform certain tasks, but it did not make them into a separate, special class.

Laying on of hands was the Jewish way to ordain.

Ananias was not ordained before he laid hands on Paul, but directed by the Lord to do so.

First of all, we don't know that.
Second, Paul's ordination as an Apostle came directly from God, not any man. Gal 1:2

Are some people in Christ more important than others, or are we all equal in God's eyes as his beloved children?

Being ordained doesn't make you more important. In fact, it makes you the servant.

 

[Sola1517]

No, structure isn't necessarily about getting everyone involved in something. It's more about having a process and identifying responsible people and so forth. Take a small example; giving money. It works better if you have nominated a treasurer and that person is clear that he/she is responsible for the banking and the bookkeeping and so on. That's a structure. It doesn't happen spontaneously.

Okay yes, there are offices in the church that need to be filled. That's Biblical. All I'm saying is I think the church needs to get outside where we're comfortable (the church building) and appoint ministers in house churches. Hope that makes sense.

In theory, I agree. In practice, I find retreat necessary, otherwise my focussed time gets intruded on by family demands (I have a young child with autism), by work demands, by life in general. Having somewhere I can go is a very very great blessing.

Well, I can't judge you there. I have no idea what that's like.

Let's just say, I've seen some churches of the "We don't need rules and structure variety, everything can just happen," and what happens is often very poor.

I bet.

 

[Meowzltov]

I never said that there aren't supposed to be offices in the Church. All I'm saying is you don't need a church building or a denomination.

Who cares about a building? You can do it with a network of house churches if you like. What you can't do it with is a home church with ten people, which is more like a Bible study. IMHO, even a non-denominational church is largely cut off.

Yes, it's important to get around other believers. Yet if one is truly in Christ then they are a member of the church no matter what. You don't need to go to church to be the church.

Oh, of course you need to go to Church. How else do you be a part of it? It's not some ideal that exists only in your head. It's a reality that exists in space and time.

Yes, but we can all get together and do this without a building.

Like I've said in other posts. You can and should even do this alone. But it's no excuse not to do this as part of the BODY, and a home church of 10 people is not the BODY. It's too isolated. 10 people is a Bible study, not a local church.

Even a building with 200 people is not really a local church. If you REALLY want to be like the Apostolic Church, a local church is a territory like a city or metropolitan area and all the Christians in it. It is made up of the smaller assemblies within it. In my Church, we call it a Diocese and the smaller assemblies are called Parishes. Although we meet at the Parish level to break bread, they are too large to fellowship, so we have small faith groups that meet in people's homes.

Yes, we can serve our community without a building. We just need to rethink how it looks.

You need to think LONG AND HARD about the issues I've raised. A home church simply can't do the Good Works that a large and organized institution can handle.

 

[Meowzltov]

In theory, I agree. In practice, I find retreat necessary, otherwise my focussed time gets intruded on by family demands (I have a young child with autism), by work demands, by life in general. Having somewhere I can go is a very very great blessing.



No, structure isn't necessarily about getting everyone involved in something. It's more about having a process and identifying responsible people and so forth. Take a small example; giving money. It works better if you have nominated a treasurer and that person is clear that he/she is responsible for the banking and the bookkeeping and so on. That's a structure. It doesn't happen spontaneously.



Let's just say, I've seen some churches of the "We don't need rules and structure variety, everything can just happen," and what happens is often very poor

Excellent post! I totally get ya about unorganized churches having poor quality.

 

[Paidiske]

Does this sound like an ordained priesthood, above the laity, somehow elevated above other Christians??

Erm... as a member of the ordained priesthood, I don't understand myself as above the laity or other Christians. I have a particular role but I'm not better or more important than anyone else.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Wow this discussion is still going! I didn't think there would be more replies. I'm mostly going to reply to posts directed at me personally and not the debates going around between people although, I've read all of the replies in this topic.

If I missed your post I apologize, and just let me know and I'll try to be more active on the thread.

It's okay. You have time to do the work you need to do now. Your path might have been a bit irregular but God will still be able to do something useful with it!

I just wanted to say - you don't need to be able to answer all questions you get asked. And in fact it's important to realise that there will always be questions which you can't answer. Sometimes that will be the start of a process of you and the person asking exploring the question together (if it's a faith-related question).

But sometimes the right thing to do will be to refer that person on to someone else with more expertise in an appropriate area. I refer people to doctors, counsellors and the like often, even lawyers sometimes, or whatever, because I'm not any of those things and it would be dangerous for me to pretend to be competent in that area.

You're right, I didn't mean to state that I needed to know everything. I just, wanted to be as educated as I possibly could be before I started preaching on the main stream. The word of God isn't to be taken lightly and I wouldn't, want to preach the wrong word to the world. That's mostly what I meant.

I mean, I wouldn't want to tell a woman that came to me who wanted to abort her baby that Abortion was okay and that she could abort her baby. When, the bible clearly states that Abortion, is wrong and that, killing her baby would be the last thing she'd want to do. It's commonly known throughout Christianity that Abortion is wrong but, you'd be surprised how many Christians are fooled and still debate it to this day. I wouldn't want to be one of those fooled people.

You know I thought about doing something similar, the Church in the first century was no where near as institutional as the church of today. As a matter of fact I think that the church should de-institutionalize.

How do you plan on getting members? Door to door?

I don't think it should go that far but, I do think that Church should not become such a large part of Christians lives anymore. There are many other ways to live a biblical lifestyle and, like many people have pointed out, 2 centuries ago many people did what I'm planning to do. Just because, it's over 2,000 years later doesn't automatically mean that we HAVE to adapt to what Christianity has become today.

After all, the modernized bibles have been changed. Some bibles have even added to the bible that Homosexuality is okay and encouraged Christians to "embrace their homosexuality" to fit the demonic world that we all live in.

God accepted these Churches over 2,000 years ago. You can't convince me that he would change his mind today just because, the world around him is changing. I'm sorry, you can't convince me of that. As long as Home Churches fit all of scripture, they're biblical in my opinion and, New Testament Churches made that a reality. I will be working to make that a reality in the world today.

As for getting members? I could post an ad in the local paper, and have a Facebook page and whatnot. There are also church search engines available on the internet that I could get my church added to.

I think it depends on the kind of person leading it. As long as it's based on the Bible (specifically Christ's example) it's what I want to model.

Exactly what I stated above. I 100% agree with you. As long as it has the fundamental and most important parts of the bible

Mainly,

(Colossians 1:18) (Esphians 5:25-27) (Colossians 3:16) (Luke 22:19) (2 Timothy 4:2) (Matthew 28:19-20)

It's a church.

You are right, small churches that are working together can accomplish much. One small church, be it a home church or so, can barely function to meet their own needs, and one or two other small needs. But there are some ingrown churches that stay stagnate and fester using up so called members, as one family controls everything! I know I pastored one for barely one year. They lied about the salary, the insurance, and refused to grow! That is NOT a church! Christ needs none of these types of ingrowned family worship centers.

So, you're saying that all of them are corrupt? It sounds like you're only talking about the Westboro Baptist Church.

And, we are not living in a first-century world. Two millennia later, we are in a very different place, socially and culturally, and trying to make ourselves like the first-century church would be pretty inauthentic at best.

I'd argue that we're much better off starting from where we are, and being the best church we can be now, without trying to idolise a particular (often misconstrued) moment in the past.

I disagree. Just because it was two centuries ago doesn't necessarily mean that it was a wrong way to practice church. It also doesn't mean that it can't be done today or, shouldn't be done today. And yeah, we're in a different place socially and culturally but, is that a good thing? I mean, the rapture is getting closer and closer and is very near. Don't you think that a bunch of false Churches will be rising from the ground in an attempt to deceive Christians? If anything, I argue that the way of the old should come back and the way of the new should be avoided at all costs.

I'm not saying Church isn't very important. I'm just saying, many Churches do NOT preach the word of God and we have to be exceptionally careful when choosing a church. I think, if the Churches of old returned it would make that choice, easier for Christians.

So, I'm sorry. I don't mean to judge you or wrongly judge you but, whenever someone basically says "I would get with the times?" I head for the hills. Because, the times changing aren't usually a good thing. We were warned in scripture to stay away from the times and to stay away from the modernized world or the world, will tear us apart.

Which, is fulfilling itself. Homosexuality is now being accepted in more and more parts of the world. Money, and power are corrupting many modernized churches around the world and are deceiving several Christians around the globe. Abortion is now a topic that's encouraged and legalized among a majority of the world and sadly, Christians as well. There's the changes in marriage and divorce and... the list goes on and on. These are not good things, these are signs of corruption and that the rapture is drawing closer.

It's not just affecting countries and the world we live in, It's affecting religion as well. Slowly Churches are turning away from the word of God and are turning towards the word of Satan. And, It concerns me. As a future minister and as a caring Christian.

 

[pescador]

I gave a definition of Piety. Do you not think they met that definition? Do you not think they worshiped, prayed, meditated on Christ, confessed their sins, broke bread? The dictionary definition of piety is reverent. Do you not think they were reverent before God?

You used a slang definition of pious, as in sanctimonious. I didn't. You really ought to read a person's post before replying. Notice the TWO very different definitions. You have to figure out from context which one a person is using:

pi·ous
ˈpīəs/
adjective

1. devoutly religious.
   synonyms: religious, devout, God-fearing, churchgoing, spiritual,prayerful, holy, godly, saintly, dedicated, reverent, dutiful,righteous
   "a pious family"
2. making a hypocritical display of virtue.
   "there'll be no pious words said over her"
   synonyms: sanctimonious, hypocritical, insincere, self-righteous, holier-than-thou, pietistic, churchy;
   informalgoody-goody
   "pious platitudes"

Does "piety" mean being able to read somebody's mind? I know both meanings of the word pious and used the word correctly.

You are projecting your own idea of what these men were like, only it has no scriptural basis. Those people bore no resemblance to the portrayal in medieval art of older men, for example, standing quietly in ornate robes with their hands clasped, as do many of the clergy today. They were young "country folk" who were disciples of Christ (who himself was "country folk") dressed in coarse tunics, eating bread with their hands, arguing among themselves, walking the dusty roads with staffs in their hands, sleeping on the ground, etc. They bear no resemblance to the pious clergy of today. That image is derived from the Roman and Greek upper classes and was adopted after the disciples and apostles had died. Didn't Jesus warn many times about the pious, with their long flowing robes and "religious" behavior?

Again, can you show me anywhere in scripture where Jesus' disciples and the apostles are described as "devoutly religious"?

 

[Neostarwcc]

Does "piety" mean being able to read somebody's mind? I know both meanings of the word pious and used the word correctly.

You are projecting your own idea of what these men were like, only it has no scriptural basis. Those people bore no resemblance to the portrayal in medieval art of older men, for example, standing quietly in ornate robes with their hands clasped, as do many of the clergy today. They were young "country folk" who were disciples of Christ (who himself was "country folk") dressed in coarse tunics, eating bread with their hands, arguing among themselves, walking the dusty roads with staffs in their hands, sleeping on the ground, etc. They bear no resemblance to the pious clergy of today. That image is derived from the Roman and Greek upper classes and was adopted after the disciples and apostles had died. Didn't Jesus warn many times about the pious, with their long flowing robes and "religious" behavior?

Again, can you show me anywhere in scripture where Jesus' disciples and the apostles are described as "devoutly religious"?

I hate to say this, but I completely agree with you.

 

[Meowzltov]

As for getting members? I could post an ad in the local paper, and have a Facebook page and whatnot. There are also church search engines available on the internet that I could get my church added to.

Ahhhh, you see, you ARE adapting to life in the 21st century! Excellent.

 

[Meowzltov]

Does "piety" mean being able to read somebody's mind? I know both meanings of the word pious and used the word correctly.

You attacked my correct use of the word piety. I even described exactly what I meant to avoid this sort of thing, and you still attacked it.

Again, can you show me anywhere in scripture where Jesus' disciples and the apostles are described as "devoutly religious"?

Which of my specific examples of piety do you say the disciples didn't employ?
Did they not worship God?
Did they not pray?
Did they not praise God?
Did they not meditate on Christ?
Did they not confess their sins?
Did they not break bread?

Please be specific. Which of the above did they not do? I say they did them all because they were believers and believers do all of these things.

 

[Blade]

If GOD calls ...US... He will open all the doors. And you NEVER start a ministry HE does. I tell you only what I know. I will make this short. Our church use to go to other churches (Choir). After the morning service I went for a walk alone. Said.. I know you called me but I dont know to what. That night after we sang we would go pray for the people. I notice someone was praying for Roy (Choir member). So I new it was God, was hoping if I went over there maybe he would pray for me.. sad I know. But as I got over there he did. Put his hands on me and said.. my son I have called you but you dont know to what and I will open all the doors.. you have great faith.. so for so on. Now when some one says "God told me to tell you".. now this.. He will ALWAYS tell you 1st. You already know.

So some months later going to school in OK. Said good by to a old friend just happen to know someone going that way.. tehn as we were getting in to Oklahoma the driver said she new someone I could stay with but didnt know how to get to Oral Roberts UNIV. See I new NO ONE. No place to stay nothing. So at the SAME time this car behind us the guy keeps pointing up. We pull over to this info stand and the guy right behind us. Gets out comes up ask "didnt you see me pointing up? We answer yes" He said "the lord told me you dont know how to get to Oral Roberts UNIV and I am to show you the way"

WOW.. so many years later and STILL WOW. The guy was in a car way behind us.. awesome how GOD really works.

My point was not to LOOK AT ME..forgive me for that. GOD IS REAL! JESUS IS REAL! Dont look at others to see if God is or how He works. You take Him at HIS word. If HE said it..if it is WRITTEN HE WILL DO IT! And if HE called you.. HE WILL open all the doors. See I never limited God.. .be it saved to gifts as in tongues you name it. If you look to MAN you will see and hear SO many different things. JESUS IS REAL! Ask from your heart and MEAN IT! If sin repent get it right. Love ALL forgive ALL!

I do not follow any group..I follow my friend.. my brother...my savior..my GOD! If people disagree.. PRAISE GOD! Know Jesus as lord? FAMILY! ...so many like this place..so divided.. sorry

So keys? PRAYER! Always pray..always read the word. So is God real? So real we dont say good morning? Ask Him how He is doing? Do we REALLY care? Hey preaching to my self here. So need something like car what ever? ASK HIM! He supplys all your needs YES? Thats whats written just like John 3:16. If we ask the Father ANYTHING in Jesus name HE will do it. What ever you desire when you pray believe you receive it and you will have it. If we know the Father hears us when we pray we KNOW we have the petitions we asked for. <------why does this work? You are asking inline with the word. Car.. you dont have a car..you pray for one. Not what you PERSONALLY want but what you NEED! When its for OTHERS ...not for you.. He always works. Always GIVE! Never take.. never take thanks.. its never you its HIM! Always give HIM the glory. Remember your treasure is NOT HERE! This is not your home. To many spent their treasures here....praise GOD! The love the lord amen! Make sure its ALWAYS written. And DONT believe me.. lol no . YOU PRAY! He is SO REAL! He will open all the doors.. what can you believe? If you disagree or I offended forgive me please.. never meant to..

 

[StanJ]

The Bible tells us not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together. Heb 10:25
Of course then churches were very small and even then the major Centre you might only find three or four assemblies that met in homes. Today is a much different situation but we are still subject to scriptural admonition to maintain the assembling of ourselves. No this does not necessarily mean weekly although I can't see why someone would not want to meet at least weekly. When I first got saved our church would gather 3 times a week, once on Wednesday nights and twice on Sundays morning and evening. That eventually got too much for me and I quickly eliminated Sunday nights. Over the years Wednesday nights turned into home groups or Bible study which I valued much more then going to the church building. Now in my older years I might get out to church two or three times a month on Sundays and two times a month for Bible study on Wednesday nights. The point is to get regular fellowship with one another and whatever that takes should be good enough as long as you know it's where God wants you. Being with like-minded people is good but it's not the end-all and be-all. Sometimes it's better to be with people you don't always agree with so that you can learn to have broader perspectives in your life. As long as we are faithful to God and open to his leading he will always find some place for us to meet and fellowship.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Ahhhh, you see, you ARE adapting to life in the 21st century! Excellent.

I am, to the point of communication and getting God's word out there. Obviously, I'm adapting to life of the 21st century if I'm using a computer to post and reply to the forums.

But, I was talking about Religious beliefs and anything Theological. Like, Abortion. My stance shouldn't be that of which a majority of America Believes. I should be prolife and nothing else. That's mostly what I was talking about.

Yes, Technology shouldn't be a part of my life in theory. It wastes a lot of time that I could be spending with God and doing God's word. But, when you use technology to do God's bidding and get God's word out to the masses, then it becomes not so bad.

Instead of playing video games, or watching porn, or doing any other activity that could lead to sin. I replace it with, posting on here and typing out sermons and articles for my blog and prepping for my church. I think, that's much better. That's mostly what I was talking about.

If GOD calls ...US... He will open all the doors. And you NEVER start a ministry HE does. I tell you only what I know. I will make this short. Our church use to go to other churches (Choir). After the morning service I went for a walk alone. Said.. I know you called me but I dont know to what. That night after we sang we would go pray for the people. I notice someone was praying for Roy (Choir member). So I new it was God, was hoping if I went over there maybe he would pray for me.. sad I know. But as I got over there he did. Put his hands on me and said.. my son I have called you but you dont know to what and I will open all the doors.. you have great faith.. so for so on. Now when some one says "God told me to tell you".. now this.. He will ALWAYS tell you 1st. You already know.

So some months later going to school in OK. Said good by to a old friend just happen to know someone going that way.. tehn as we were getting in to Oklahoma the driver said she new someone I could stay with but didnt know how to get to Oral Roberts UNIV. See I new NO ONE. No place to stay nothing. So at the SAME time this car behind us the guy keeps pointing up. We pull over to this info stand and the guy right behind us. Gets out comes up ask "didnt you see me pointing up? We answer yes" He said "the lord told me you dont know how to get to Oral Roberts UNIV and I am to show you the way"

WOW.. so many years later and STILL WOW. The guy was in a car way behind us.. awesome how GOD really works.

My point was not to LOOK AT ME..forgive me for that. GOD IS REAL! JESUS IS REAL! Dont look at others to see if God is or how He works. You take Him at HIS word. If HE said it..if it is WRITTEN HE WILL DO IT! And if HE called you.. HE WILL open all the doors. See I never limited God.. .be it saved to gifts as in tongues you name it. If you look to MAN you will see and hear SO many different things. JESUS IS REAL! Ask from your heart and MEAN IT! If sin repent get it right. Love ALL forgive ALL!

I do not follow any group..I follow my friend.. my brother...my savior..my GOD! If people disagree.. PRAISE GOD! Know Jesus as lord? FAMILY! ...so many like this place..so divided.. sorry

So keys? PRAYER! Always pray..always read the word. So is God real? So real we dont say good morning? Ask Him how He is doing? Do we REALLY care? Hey preaching to my self here. So need something like car what ever? ASK HIM! He supplys all your needs YES? Thats whats written just like John 3:16. If we ask the Father ANYTHING in Jesus name HE will do it. What ever you desire when you pray believe you receive it and you will have it. If we know the Father hears us when we pray we KNOW we have the petitions we asked for. <------why does this work? You are asking inline with the word. Car.. you dont have a car..you pray for one. Not what you PERSONALLY want but what you NEED! When its for OTHERS ...not for you.. He always works. Always GIVE! Never take.. never take thanks.. its never you its HIM! Always give HIM the glory. Remember your treasure is NOT HERE! This is not your home. To many spent their treasures here....praise GOD! The love the lord amen! Make sure its ALWAYS written. And DONT believe me.. lol no . YOU PRAY! He is SO REAL! He will open all the doors.. what can you believe? If you disagree or I offended forgive me please.. never meant to..

You didn't offend me and, I mostly agree. I have one problem with what you stated though, while prayer,biblical study and time spent with God is very crucial, isn't prayer and biblical study also to be done with fellow Christians? Which, is the purpose of Church and bible study gatherings?

The Bible tells us not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together. Heb 10:25
Of course then churches were very small and even then the major Centre you might only find three or four assemblies that met in homes. Today is a much different situation but we are still subject to scriptural admonition to maintain the assembling of ourselves. No this does not necessarily mean weekly although I can't see why someone would not want to meet at least weekly. When I first got saved our church would gather 3 times a week, once on Wednesday nights and twice on Sundays morning and evening. That eventually got too much for me and I quickly eliminated Sunday nights. Over the years Wednesday nights turned into home groups or Bible study which I valued much more then going to the church building. Now in my older years I might get out to church two or three times a month on Sundays and two times a month for Bible study on Wednesday nights. The point is to get regular fellowship with one another and whatever that takes should be good enough as long as you know it's where God wants you. Being with like-minded people is good but it's not the end-all and be-all. Sometimes it's better to be with people you don't always agree with so that you can learn to have broader perspectives in your life. As long as we are faithful to God and open to his leading he will always find some place for us to meet and fellowship.

Right, Christians gathering together in one place is a very crucial part of being Christian. I agree with you. I also agree that attending Church 2 times on Sunday would be very stressful to keep up with. Most people have a hard time juggling church even one time a week.