Is this idea in any way biblical?

[Albion]

Some who are gifted, talented and have studied much may find themselves speaking and writing about Jesus. Some people who want to form a church will appoint an outsider to lead them, if they cannot find a leader among themselves. Study groups have sprung up on the Internet. There are sermons to be listened to on TV shows or Christian radio stations. There are books to read and journals dedicated to Christian theology.

Yes, but this is not the situation or the proposal described to us in the OP.

 

[ToBeLoved]

There are real dangers in starting a church. A person, minister has a lot of power and form the spiritual lives of real people. To have this much power can be intoxicating.

I'm not saying anything about the OP, but many Christian pastors, have fallen from grace.

One must be very strong spiritually and maintain it always. Hard stuff.

 

[dqhall]

Yes, but this is not the situation or the proposal described to us in the OP.

The person writing the OP wanted to start a church as he did not have many church meetings in his area. One may start a church by leading, or appointing someone else to lead. To be a leader should mean you are better educated than those you lead, but this is not always the case in the real world.

If you want to be ordained as a preacher in an existing church hierarchy, you need to pass their test of competence and be appointed by them. You do not appoint yourself.

John the Baptist had some wisdom from God and drew crowds without being appointed by anyone in Jerusalem. He did not have a synagogue with granite pillars and marble floors either. Jesus was ordained by God. He taught in their synagogues, from a boat, on a mountain and in their homes. Many were going to him for he had authority from his father.

 

[Albion]

The person writing the OP wanted to start a church as he did not have many church meetings in his area.

To be more precise, he wanted to start on with himself as the pastor.

One may start a church by leading, or appointing someone else to lead.

I don't think we can say such a thing...just like that. There is a long history in Christianity of the importance of being called by the people. Anyway, this is a more complicated issue than just to say "start your own."

If you want to be ordained as a preacher in an existing church hierarchy, you need to pass their test of competence and be appointed by them. You do not appoint yourself.

Right.

 

[Paidiske]

To be honest, the part of the OP I found frightening was the idea of two weeks between vocation and ordination.

Where is the time for testing and discernment? For preparation and training?

OP, you might be being called to start a house church, and you might not. I can't tell that from what you've posted. But if you want it to have solid foundations, to be a safe and edifying place of learning and worship, you're going to need to think about more than the mechanics of what happens.

Think about things like: Against what standard will you measure your teaching? What will you put in place for accountability to other people in the congregation? What will you put in place for your own ongoing professional development, mentoring, spiritual direction, oversight - all of that type of stuff?

A denomination would give you a structure which would help you with a lot of that. Without a denomination you need to think of it all for yourself. And it is really really important - not secondary or trivial - because it's those things that are going to give you the support and balance to make a healthy ministry sustainable.

If nothing else, I strongly recommend that you take up some formal theological study; it almost doesn't matter where you start, but do something that will bring you into contact with wider groups of people who will be wrestling with similar issues to you, and who will feed and teach you in ways that will, in turn, benefit any congregation you might eventually lead.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Isn't it written that Jesus said:
"Where two or more gather in my Name, I am there also"?
The earliest Churches were also brethren in Christ meeting in his Name.
These were no institutions with denominational creeds, where only one guy spoke to a silent crowd.But in the last century the yoke of institutionalised religion has lifted.
In countries where there is no 'organised Christianity' or where believers feel the established denominations have lost touch with the Word, people gather in his Name on their own too.
In fact, isn't that what we are doing right here too?
We all need discernment provided by the Spirit of Truth.
Anyway you approach this, there are controversies you bump in to.
It's just how it is..

You have and bring very good points. There was no churches during old times. Christians would just gather together and study the bible together and pray together. All of the denominations didn't exist, and Christianity, was just Christianity.

And, I don't affiliate with any religious denomination. My religion denomination has ALWAYS been the bible and God deep down in myself. I trust in God to guide my life to where It's supposed to be.

And God, has lead me on a difficult path but, is ultimately slowly bringing me closer to him. He was brought me happiness, and peace of mind. The more I continue to follow the path of God, the closer I become to him.

So, why do I even think that Church is necessary in the first place?

Maybe there are more Catholic parts to my soul left than I thought. I mean, I was raised that way, that church was necessary and you HAD to go to church. But, I also was to believe in Purgatory, I also was raised to pray to saints, and the virgin Mary, and all kinds of other deities. I also was raised in the wrong path. So, maybe there are still wrong path parts to my soul.


I mean, just my wife and I alone, would make a study group. We could have communion together, we could pray together. And, I don't even have to call what I'm doing church. There are plenty of biblical ways of taking the body and blood of Christ. Jesus never said, it had

He just broke it apart and said "Do this in remembrance of me."


Your words make me very happy and I believe you to be correct but, I can't just go off of the words of one brother I have to extensively . But, you gave me the hope that I WILL find the proper path I WILL find the proper path by the end of this. I'm confident.

There is a possibility that the Lord was calling you. But it's not at all a certainty, since it comes as you were feeling frustration over the lack of a congregation near you which you could join.

And if the Lord were calling you to the ministry, you can be certain that he was not calling you to take every shortcut that you described to us and to jump into the ministry without the tools to do the job. If you have a real call, you will become a church member, be admitted to ministerial training and Bible studies within that church body, and all of that.

By the way, what church body ordained you, considering that you appear to have no connection to any organized Christian church??


That's right. It checks the boxes but in a technical way only

No, I don't think it was my guilt and my subconsciousness, I mean what you said, made sense but, I do believe that it is God guiding my life and I do believe that it was a command from God.

You're right, this shouldn't be easy when everything else God has commanded me to do has been a hard difficult journey. Which, is why I'm questioning it. I need to go on this long and difficult journey to find the truth and find the true path of what God has told me to do.

I was ordained online through the Christian Harvest Church and was blessed by the lead minister there. So, legally I can perform everything I described, including baptism and marriage.

But, you might have a point that, it Isn't the same as being touched and ordained by a minister in person but, I thought that it was good enough for God that I was ordained in this way. There are a lot of ministers who are, and are fantastic and accurate ministers preaching the proper word.

I don't want to appear rude, but what Biblical training have you had? Do you know God's Word well enough to guide His sheep?

Pastor/Teachers are held to a high standard Biblically. You will be in a sense responsible to God for each of their spiritual growth and teaching. God is serious when it comes to shepherding His sheep.

Are you really prepared for that? Are you strong enough spiritually to do this for the rest of your life?

I'm just asking the questions that I would be thinking myself (although I'm not called to Pastor), but if I was these are a few questions I would ask.

I don't have any biblical training. I thought training and experience would come from God guiding my life and from reading God's word and studying God's word for the rest of my life. And from the training and guidance of fellow Christians.

After all, if I did a home church I'd only have to do mass once a week. I could spend an entire week studying and making sure my sermon was accurate.

I could be wrong though. I mean, you're right. I could take courses, and I wouldn't want to be preaching the wrong word for my entire life. Not just because of my soul and the souls of others, But, also I want to give off the right image of God. I love God, with all my heart. And, I wouldn't want to disgrace him in any way, shape, or form.

Yes, whether or not I want to be a minister I would have to extensively study the word of God anyway so, yes I know and, I am prepared for this kind of dedication. The last two weeks have been among the happiest two weeks of my entire life. The sermons that I wrote for practice, were good and beloved by everyone I showed them to and have made me indescribably happy. If this is possible? I'm going to be a minister. There's no way around it.

And, God probably told me to ask you guys so that I can find the right path for myself, instead of just asking him all the time. I'm supposed to find my own way to walk the path that God wants me to walk. And, THIS is the path. I have NEVER been this happy or excited in my entire life.

 

[Neostarwcc]

To be honest, the part of the OP I found frightening was the idea of two weeks between vocation and ordination.

Where is the time for testing and discernment? For preparation and training?

OP, you might be being called to start a house church, and you might not. I can't tell that from what you've posted. But if you want it to have solid foundations, to be a safe and edifying place of learning and worship, you're going to need to think about more than the mechanics of what happens.

Think about things like: Against what standard will you measure your teaching? What will you put in place for accountability to other people in the congregation? What will you put in place for your own ongoing professional development, mentoring, spiritual direction, oversight - all of that type of stuff?

A denomination would give you a structure which would help you with a lot of that. Without a denomination you need to think of it all for yourself. And it is really really important - not secondary or trivial - because it's those things that are going to give you the support and balance to make a healthy ministry sustainable.

If nothing else, I strongly recommend that you take up some formal theological study; it almost doesn't matter where you start, but do something that will bring you into contact with wider groups of people who will be wrestling with similar issues to you, and who will feed and teach you in ways that will, in turn, benefit any congregation you might eventually lead.

It's concerning to me as well, I'm so far away from my goal at the moment It's unreal.

But, I do not call myself a minister yet, and if I gave off that aura, I apologize. I call myself an aspiring minister and a minister in training. I'm not performing baptisms at the moment, or marriages, or sermons or anything of the ilk. (Although I'm writing sermons for practice) I need training, I need God to help me, I need to brush up on God's word more, and I need to work more on my personal life before I do ANY of the above. I didn't mean to call myself a minister. Because, I'm far from that goal at the moment.

Thank you for your advice and for your encouragement though! It's giving me strength and hope.

*edit*

Oops, accidentally double posted meant to put that in my original reply.

 

[Paidiske]

It's concerning to me as well, I'm so far away from my goal at the moment It's unreal.

But, I do not call myself a minister yet, and if I gave off that aura, I apologize. I call myself an aspiring minister and a minister in training. I'm not performing baptisms at the moment, or marriages, or sermons or anything of the ilk. (Although I'm writing sermons for practice) I need training, I need God to help me, I need to brush up on God's word more, and I need to work more on my personal life before I do ANY of the above. I didn't mean to call myself a minister. Because, I'm far from that goal at the moment.

Thank you for your advice and for your encouragement though! It's giving me strength and hope.

You're welcome. I didn't want to sound too harsh. You're trying to do the right thing, and that's always a good thing.

Okay. Here's something I suggest as a good next step. Make a list of the things you think you might need to learn, the skills you might need to gain, and the supports you need to have in place, before you're ready to think about actually starting a church. Ask here or others in real life or whatever, what they've found really necessary preparation for their ministry. And start to put together a bit of a plan for how to learn those things. You don't have to do it all at once, but having a plan will give you a way forward, and a way to channel all that enthusiasm.

 

[Hieronymus]

There are real dangers in starting a church. A person, minister has a lot of power and form the spiritual lives of real people. To have this much power can be intoxicating.

In a traditional setting, being the leader and speaker, indeed, humility is replaced by a power-trip easily...

I'm not saying anything about the OP, but many Christian pastors, have fallen from grace.

because they end up above the brethren in the power structure.

 

[RDKirk]

You have and bring very good points. There was no churches during old times. Christians would just gather together and study the bible together and pray together. All of the denominations didn't exist, and Christianity, was just Christianity..

This is incorrect. There were no church buildings, but there were definitely churches--congregations--that did far, far, far more than merely gathering, studying the bible, and praying together.

All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. -- Acts 2

We need to stop and truly think about intimate level of human organization it takes to make those two sentences possible.

 

[Hieronymus]

This is incorrect.

It is incomplete, not incorrect.

There were no church buildings, but there were definitely churches--congregations--that did far, far, far more than merely gathering, studying the bible, and praying together.

All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. -- Acts 2

We need to stop and truly think about intimate level of human organization it takes to make those two sentences possible.

Of course.
But it starts with the gathering of brethren (and sisters of course, but "brethren" is the lingo).

 

[Hieronymus]

In a traditional setting, being the leader and speaker, indeed, humility is replaced by a power-trip easily...

Let me rephrase that...
Pride, it's pride, not necessarily a power-trip, although....

 

[joshua 1 9]

Okay, so here's the problem.

I and my wife recognize the need and necessity to go to Church. However there are only two non denominational churches in our area and, one is in town. The church in town, does not follow the word of God. They don't even practice communion (A very important part of a Christian church) in their church.

So, I've marked it as a church for us to avoid. There is one other church within 60 miles of here that I have not checked out yet.

But, we have no car and cannot afford to buy one and, 60 miles is a long commute to take by bus. If a bus, even exists to the town that we'd have to go to. We usually hitch a ride with my mother while she attends her Catholic Churches Sunday service.

I know, these all sound like excuses but, I don't mean them to sound so.

And, about 2 weeks ago while I was praying the Lord told me to become a minister so, I got ordained and started to work on my own Church group and doing research on becoming a minister.

At first, I was going to do the Church online but then, I realized "Oh yeah, if I do my church online on Youtube, how are we going to have communion?" and 'Having online service just isn't going to be the same as physically being there."

So, my idea is this.

I can start my own church from my own home and be the minister of that church.

And, by communicating with the masses online. I can reach out to thousands and thousands of Christians. More than I ever could in ANY church.

Obviously not to many people here on Christian Forums have a problem with that, as well... Christian Forums exists.

I also want to write my own book teaching the word of God to the world.

I can talk to fellow Christians around the world by communicating with them online, developing friendships with them, helping with them with their daily problems, and talking about Christianity and the ilk.

And, I can fill the ministerial parts of my obligations by running my Church from my own home trying to get as many members into my home as I can. And, if it ends up only being attended by my wife and family? At least I tried.

But, we could have communion, I could write up sermons and service, I could do everything that a church does, only from the privacy and comfort of my own home.

And it wouldn't be sinful because, I'm an ordained minister who both legally and biblically can perform those rites.

I also know legally speaking, I can start my own church from my home and run a church from home.

However, I want to know about biblically. I want to know if this is what the Lord was talking about when he told me to become a minister. If not? I'll continue to search for the answer.

It seems like the perfect plan and the perfect solution to our church problem, only... TOO perfect and far too easy. Usually the right and proper path that God wants you to take, is not easy. Which, is causing me to have doubts. I have asked God in prayer and he told me to post and ask for advice here. So, here I am.

And, I have one thought.

If this was a way to be Christian, why haven't Christians thought of it and practiced it before? And if they have, why haven't I noticed it before or seen anyone doing it through online research?

So, it seems like I already know the answer and this is NOT what God meant when he said he wanted me to be a minister.

And please, don't call me stupid or "not a Christian". Because, unlike many Christians out there? I'll admit my mistakes. I'll always search for the truth. I won't just pick the first answer someone suggests and then go with that. I'll do weeks and weeks of research and bible study to get the right solution to my problems. I want to weigh all of the options so that I can figure out what God meant when he told me he wanted me to be a minister and run my own church. If running my own church was even the solution. Maybe he wanted me to be a life coach minister or other kind of minister. I'm supposed to figure out this journey alone. God will not completely show me the way.

I just want a solution to this problem besides, move. I don't want to move far away from my family when my parents are as old as they are and, our entire family pretty much lives together. But, if that's what God wants? That's what he wants. I'm to obey.

Many are called to the Priesthood, few are chosen (Mat22) because they do not want to cleanse their flesh (or their garment) to be qualified. Our garment needs to be washed and cleansed in the Blood of Jesus. Rev 7:14 " have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. "

Even I have read Leviticus because there are instructions there for those who are called to the Priesthood. If we serve a Holy God then we need to be Holy. So we speak the word of God and not the word of man. Then God will watch over us to make sure what we do and say represents Him. It is not always so easy to live our life as an example for others.

The Living Stone 1 Pet 2
4 As you come to Him, the living stone, rejected by men, but chosen and precious in God’s sight, 5 you also, like living stones,are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

What can wash away my sin?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

 

[Kenny'sID]

And if the Lord were calling you to the ministry, you can be certain that he was not calling you to take every shortcut that you described to us and to jump into the ministry without the tools to do the job. If you have a real call, you will become a church member, be admitted to ministerial training and Bible studies within that church body, and all of that.

If God is calling him into the ministry and that is the only thing he is certain of then he should do that.....period. Yes, listen to others if you feel God directed you to do that but, in the end, just do it however you can.

To easy? What!?? lol. If it was too hard we'd be complaining about that. For all I know is it's easy because he made it easy for you...for all *I* know. And it may not be all that easy once you get into it but for all I know, God put it in your mind just they way to do it and that's why it seems easy. and all this is my taking your word for the fact God did indeed choose you for this.

The way I see it, start it, give it your best and if God wants it to succeed it will succeed.....that simple, in essence anyway.

 

[Albion]

I was ordained online through the Christian Harvest Church and was blessed by the lead minister there. So, legally I can perform everything I described, including baptism and marriage.

In most states you can legally perform baptisms and marriages without being ordained. And this is what the Christian Harvest Church offers online--the so-called legal right to do this--not to be a pastor, but to earn money from performing weddings. The point is that this is no way to go about actualizing the call you believe you received from God. Do it the right way and don't put the cart before the horse. You wouldn't be doing yourself any favors and you surely wouldn't be doing right by any members of your congregation by preaching errors while you're teaching yourself the essentials of the faith. That would be my sincere advice.

 

[Albion]

Then what is the Biblical standard for people gathering in his Name?
What if you can only find 1 or 2 brethren?

Then, unless you three live on a deserted island, you find a good, existing, local church to join. And if that is impossible for some reason, you have a Bible Study group, but you don't have the elements for a bona fide congregation.

 

[RDKirk]

Then, unless you three live on a deserted island, you find a good, existing, local church to join. And if that is impossible for some reason, you have a Bible Study group, but you don't have the elements for a bona fide congregation.

I'm going to say that "impossible" usually requires some doing. There are very few perfect congregations. In my military travels, we were members of quite a few different ones, and one of the beneficial things I eventually learned was that the Holy Spirit is far less picky than I am.

In one case, we spent several years in a small congregation in rural Maryland (and a "long, strange trip" that was). Not only were we the only black family among that small group of retired white farmers, I was the only man besides the pastor still earning a wage. Yet...the Holy Spirit was there. They sang country gospel music--still not my favorite type--but yet, the Holy Spirit was in it.

 

[Albion]

I'm going to say that "impossible" usually requires some doing. There are very few perfect congregations. In my military travels, we were members of quite a few different ones, and one of the beneficial things I eventually learned was that the Holy Spirit is far less picky than I am.

Good point.

In one case, we spent several years in a small congregation in rural Maryland (and a "long, strange trip" that was). Not only were we the only black family among that small group of retired white farmers, I was the only man besides the pastor still earning a wage. Yet...the Holy Spirit was there. They sang country gospel music--still not my favorite type--but yet, the Holy Spirit was in it.

 

[ToBeLoved]

.
I don't have any biblical training. I thought training and experience would come from God guiding my life and from reading God's word and studying God's word for the rest of my life. And from the training and guidance of fellow Christians.

After all, if I did a home church I'd only have to do mass once a week. I could spend an entire week studying and making sure my sermon was accurate.

I could be wrong though. I mean, you're right. I could take courses, and I wouldn't want to be preaching the wrong word for my entire life. Not just because of my soul and the souls of others, But, also I want to give off the right image of God. I love God, with all my heart. And, I wouldn't want to disgrace him in any way, shape, or form.

Yes, whether or not I want to be a minister I would have to extensively study the word of God anyway so, yes I know and, I am prepared for this kind of dedication. The last two weeks have been among the happiest two weeks of my entire life. The sermons that I wrote for practice, were good and beloved by everyone I showed them to and have made me indescribably happy. If this is possible? I'm going to be a minister. There's no way around it.

And, God probably told me to ask you guys so that I can find the right path for myself, instead of just asking him all the time. I'm supposed to find my own way to walk the path that God wants me to walk. And, THIS is the path. I have NEVER been this happy or excited in my entire life.

What about if you found a pastor/teacher who could be like a mentor.

Just someone you could talk to and maybe who could help guide you? Tell you the things that are most important and just be like a sounding board for you?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Do you really think your sacraments can save you?

We are told that MANY are weak and sick and die an early death because they do not discern the Lord's body and judge themselves. So a proper understanding of the sacraments is essential. That is why we are to examine ourselves to be sure that we are worthy of the sacrifice that Jesus made for us.

11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.