Is this a silly question?

[charligirl]

Dr. Feel Good says: "You are trying to use the wrong application of this passage."

What is the point of us trying to read the Bible for ourselves if we are always going to interpret it wrong? Should we go back to the days when common folk aren't allowed to read the Bible, and we should just let authorities like you tell us what the Bible really says?

I'm not trying to discredit the use of outside opinions and studies. But, we are always supposed to look back to the Bible as our main source of wisdom. Otherwise, why would the Bereans be commended for studying the Scriptures to make sure what they had been taught was true? (Acts 17:11)

Absolutely!

I believe the bible works on may levels, pertinent for the EXACT audience at the time (in the case of the Pauline letters) and also able to speak to us now. I usually ask God to speak to me about the bible and the Holy Spirit to reveal His chose word to me... as well as studying outside tools.

 

[charligirl]

Erica, I implore you to not fall into this trap. Biblical and scientific evidence has proven that the earth was not created in a literal seven days, as warrior poet so aptly pointed out........

Scientific evidence has also proven that the earth is not young, as literalists like Dave would like to believe. God is at work, alright, but not in the fashion being presented to you. It is a trap you don't want to be stuck in, believe me......

If you need to know any more you can go read the science forums to get the facts on how the earth was really created.

What biblical evidence do you have for this? Even many scientists now are admitting they may have it wrong, that 6-12,000 years is more likely for the earth's age.

Yes there are science forums, but there are also creationist forums

http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=faq

What do I believe? Well I believe the Word of God, it says 7 days in black and white 'and threr was evening and morning the third day' 'and there was evening and morning the fourth day' God made it pretty literal, evening and morning, not 'a million years'.

 

[hugnluvable]

I really do think that upfront words like liar and false teachings are really not needed in this conversation. There is such a risk of sugar-coating God's word and making it easier to go down.

Like Mary Poppins said "Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down in the most delightful way!" But we shouldnt add any more flavour to God's word that helps us. Yeah, it'll go down in the most delightful way but it makes it even harder to cut out the sugar when the time comes when we realise we shouldnt be having it... !

Love, hugs and prayers
Erica
xxx

 

[LadyBird]

So let me clarify.

You believe in taking the Bible literally, word for word, out of context and all.

That is your excuse for everything though. That is the way you are able to justify your actions. "Such and such is taken out of context and/or it was translated wrong therefore I don't have to follow it and/or it doesn't apply to me." And in a way, you are a hyprocrite too dr. The bible says not to unequally yoked!!! Yet you are sort of engaged to your unbelieving girlfriend .

I have countless, Christian books on relationships, marriage and dating and every single one of them DISCOURAGES unequally yoked relationships.

From "The 10 Commandments of Dating" by Ben Young and Dr. Samuel Adams there is a "commandment" thou shalt be equally yoked. Here is a paragraph from that chapter:

"In the Bible, there is a passage that exhorts Christians not to be yoked with non-Christians. A yoke was a strong wooden bar that was placed around the necks of oxen that was then connected to a plow. The trick was to yoke together two oxen of equal strength so they could move forward to plow a field in a straight line. Unequally yoked oxen would simply move around in circles because they were incompatible. The Bible uses this metaphor to warn of the dangers of believers being "yoked" together with non-believers-two people who are ultimatley headed in opposite directions. In a similar fashion, we aim to warn you of the dangers of dating someone with vast differences..." (chapter 4, page 37-38).

 

[hugnluvable]

1. How can you make a partnership out of right and wrong?

Good first question... you cant. If there are two people who have different principles/beliefs they are right in their minds yet their partner is wrong in their mind. You can, however, work things out - very challenging I know - and work out a compromise... but in my case I dont intend to compromise God again for my relationship with my boyfriend... if anyone had to compromise and respect alternative opinions then it would have to be him I'm afraid. And if he agrees and is happy to follow all what in my mind is right then nothing is really going to stop God working in me is there?

2. Is light best friends with dark?

No, light is the opposite to dark. But as I love saying no matter how much darkness there is somewhere - the light always overcomes... no matter how dim it may be.

3. Does Christ go strolling with the Devil?

You know what? I dont know the answer to that question... who am I to suggest what Jesus does in his free time? I do know that we always go strolling with him when we're away from God... and Jesus spent most his life with people who once followed the devil's evil ways... so in a way he might do.... but dont rely on me for that one... I'm kinda waffling to get the answer out!

4. Do trust and mistrust hold hands?

They can do, but very insecurely!

5. Who would think of setting up pagan idols in God's holy Temple?

Ummmm, pagans....?

 

[SirKenin]

What biblical evidence do you have for this? Even many scientists now are admitting they may have it wrong, that 6-12,000 years is more likely for the earth's age.

Yes there are science forums, but there are also creationist forums

http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=faq

What do I believe? Well I believe the Word of God, it says 7 days in black and white 'and threr was evening and morning the third day' 'and there was evening and morning the fourth day' God made it pretty literal, evening and morning, not 'a million years'.

Dr. Dino has been debunked on so many levels it's laughable. Please see the science forum for more info Most creation scientists are now scrambling to rally around the gap theory to explain why the earth is actually several million years old. To explain why we are seeing stars several MILLION light years away. (it takes that long for the light to travel to hit us. It doesn't just show up)

Young Earth Creationism has been flushed down the toilet by every respectable scientist in the industry. There is no evidence for it. It's absolutely impossible. Clear scientific evidence demonstrates this. The only answers left are possible theistic evolution, which I adhere to. God having his hand in the whole evolution process.

 

[SirKenin]

Dr. Feel Good says: "You are trying to use the wrong application of this passage."

What is the point of us trying to read the Bible for ourselves if we are always going to interpret it wrong? Should we go back to the days when common folk aren't allowed to read the Bible, and we should just let authorities like you tell us what the Bible really says?

I'm not trying to discredit the use of outside opinions and studies. But, we are always supposed to look back to the Bible as our main source of wisdom. Otherwise, why would the Bereans be commended for studying the Scriptures to make sure what they had been taught was true? (Acts 17:11)

That's where the serious study comes in. It's not taking a literalist, legalist interpretation of it and trying to make it stick. It's exploring every possible resource available to you, the resources I have made available to you here, to help you gain a higher understanding.

 

[SirKenin]

That is your excuse for everything though. That is the way you are able to justify your actions. "Such and such is taken out of context and/or it was translated wrong therefore I don't have to follow it and/or it doesn't apply to me." And in a way, you are a hyprocrite too dr. The bible says not to unequally yoked!!! Yet you are sort of engaged to your unbelieving girlfriend .

I have countless, Christian books on relationships, marriage and dating and every single one of them DISCOURAGES unequally yoked relationships.

From "The 10 Commandments of Dating" by Ben Young and Dr. Samuel Adams there is a "commandment" thou shalt be equally yoked. Here is a paragraph from that chapter:

"In the Bible, there is a passage that exhorts Christians not to be yoked with non-Christians. A yoke was a strong wooden bar that was placed around the necks of oxen that was then connected to a plow. The trick was to yoke together two oxen of equal strength so they could move forward to plow a field in a straight line. Unequally yoked oxen would simply move around in circles because they were incompatible. The Bible uses this metaphor to warn of the dangers of believers being "yoked" together with non-believers-two people who are ultimatley headed in opposite directions. In a similar fashion, we aim to warn you of the dangers of dating someone with vast differences..." (chapter 4, page 37-38).

That is a right-wing fundamentalist interpretation taken out of context. A lot of fundamentalists believe that faulty interpretation and pound their Bibles and pulpits with it, even though the passage clearly says nothing about marriage. They then take it and judge people with it, as Dave has.

I'm aware of what the metaphor is used for, and I even included the Greek translation in this thread, along with three papers outlining the proper context of the passage in question. The Bible does not create a rule against dating non-Christians per-se. It warns about the Church joining forces with idol-worshippers in their temples. So that does not make me a hypocrite at all.

Legalism and literalism is a dead end path.

If you are going to be studying the Bible, and taking the responsibility upon yourself to preach at people like Dave is, you need to become much better informed. I already mentioned how.

I am saying that being married to an unbeliever will have it's issues that will make for an uphill battle, but God will bless the marriage and work it into His will for your life. You are not called to live in sin.

Yes, I have spent many an hour thinking of this and doing some reading. That's probably why I have a lot more to offer than "that's garbage."

 

[katelyn]

That is a right-wing fundamentalist interpretation taken out of context.

drfeelgood, could you please tell me what makes your "authorities" great and wonderful and our "authorities" foolish?

You seemingly dismiss things we have said without even giving them a bit of consideration. Why, when you do this, do you expect us to automatically trust your authorities? Sorry, but I've never heard of "Pastor David Guzik" and have no reason to trust him over anyone else.

It's obvious that you value studying and looking at outside authorities for correct interpretations. But what bugs me is that you act like someone who takes a "right-wing" view has not taken the time to study. Just as you have found well-studied people who agree with your view, there are "right-wing fundamentalists" who have studied the Bible, the original language of the Bible, and the context...and come to different conclusions than you have.

 

[LadyBird]

drfeelgood, could you please tell me what makes your "authorities" great and wonderful and our "authorities" foolish?

I was wondering the EXACT same thing...

 

[LadyBird]

Okay Dr, I really don't give a hoot that you are sort of engaged to a non-christian. That is not what bothers me. Because frankly, I don't care what you do.

The thing that REALLY gets to me is that you are telling people that it is okay to date and/or marry a non-Chrsitian when CLEARLY the Bible states that it is WRONG and warns us against it. I cannont believe the number of christians justifying sin on this forum. It really blows me away and makes me sick!!!

I just cannont believe that christians are now able to "justify" dating and/or marrying non-christians!!! Clearly it is wrong, and there is scripture to back it up. What will be next, will we be able to "justify" murder? Or Stealing? Or committing adultry, even though the Bible clearly states not to do those things? Or maybe we have already been able to due to bad translations or because the verses are taken out of context .

I don't see how those who believe it is okay to date and/or marry non-christians can justify their actions since the Bible tells us that it is not okay to do this. And I don't know how people can live knowing that they are going against God's word and not even caring. Personally, I think that they are the ones who take the verses out of context and twist them around to suit their own situations. That is what makes me even sicker. I just can't believe that there are some Christians who are justifying things that the Bible tells us not to and/or warns us about and those people are outwardly admitting that they are fine with what they are doing. If one's beliefs contradict what the Bible says, that person must question their beliefs and re-evaluate them.

Going against what the Bible says and not even caring at all and telling people that it is okay to do these things, is rather hypocrital and dangerous. We of all people, especially as representatives of Christ, should care how we look to other people and what our actions will do to our witness and we should put God's word into practice.

I have nothing nice left to say. This thread just makes me mad and is not even worth wasting another minute of my life posting in.

 

[SirKenin]

drfeelgood, could you please tell me what makes your "authorities" great and wonderful and our "authorities" foolish?

You seemingly dismiss things we have said without even giving them a bit of consideration. Why, when you do this, do you expect us to automatically trust your authorities? Sorry, but I've never heard of "Pastor David Guzik" and have no reason to trust him over anyone else.

It's obvious that you value studying and looking at outside authorities for correct interpretations. But what bugs me is that you act like someone who takes a "right-wing" view has not taken the time to study. Just as you have found well-studied people who agree with your view, there are "right-wing fundamentalists" who have studied the Bible, the original language of the Bible, and the context...and come to different conclusions than you have.

Start providing them. I haven't seen your authorities. The authorities I have provided have provided excellent reasoning.. Excellent Biblical references to back them up. Sound logic. Ancient history. Context. Everything you need to make a convincing argument.

I've seen Dave prattling off out of context Bible Bullets and disregarding everything else as "garbage" without a further fact to back him up. Reiterating the same Bible Bullets over and over again replete with your personal opinion does not constitute a counter argument. That's what I was saying. If that's your authority, I hope you can do better than that

 

[SirKenin]

Okay Dr, I really don't give a hoot that you are sort of engaged to a non-christian. That is not what bothers me. Because frankly, I don't care what you do.

The thing that REALLY gets to me is that you are telling people that it is okay to date and/or marry a non-Chrsitian when CLEARLY the Bible states that it is WRONG and warns us against it. I cannont believe the number of christians justifying sin on this forum. It really blows me away and makes me sick!!!

I just cannont believe that christians are now able to "justify" dating and/or marrying non-christians!!! Clearly it is wrong, and there is scripture to back it up. What will be next, will we be able to "justify" murder? Or Stealing? Or committing adultry, even though the Bible clearly states not to do those things? Or maybe we have already been able to due to bad translations or because the verses are taken out of context .

I don't see how those who believe it is okay to date and/or marry non-christians can justify their actions since the Bible tells us that it is not okay to do this. And I don't know how people can live knowing that they are going against God's word and not even caring. Personally, I think that they are the ones who take the verses out of context and twist them around to suit their own situations. That is what makes me even sicker. I just can't believe that there are some Christians who are justifying things that the Bible tells us not to and/or warns us about and those people are outwardly admitting that they are fine with what they are doing. If one's beliefs contradict what the Bible says, that person must question their beliefs and re-evaluate them.

Going against what the Bible says and not even caring at all and telling people that it is okay to do these things, is rather hypocrital and dangerous. We of all people, especially as representatives of Christ, should care how we look to other people and what our actions will do to our witness and we should put God's word into practice.

I have nothing nice left to say. This thread just makes me mad and is not even worth wasting another minute of my life posting in.

Ok. You've given your opinions. Now back up your claims. There is no law that says you are not to marry an unbeliever. It is not a sin to marry an unbeliever, and God will bless those marriages to unbelievers.

That's not to say that's the preferred way to go. I'm not going to sit here and recommend it to you, because it will be an uphill battle from the beginning. You will have to be very strong and there will have to be a lot in common in the relationship. It can cause problems in and of itself. The Israelites realized this in the Old Testament.

However, you can't go taking a passage and go applying the meaning you think it should have to suit your needs. That's why studying is so very important. Establishing the original translation, context, history surrounding the passage. Other verses in the Bible that support the thesis. Commentaries and papers. They all play an important part.

 

[LadyBird]

Ok. You've given your opinions.

That is NOT my opinion. It's what the Bible says.

Now back up your claims.

2 Corinthians 6:14

So I guess that all Christians who follow what the Bible says word for word and literally are right wing fundamentalists according to you .

 

[DaveKerwin]

Feel Good, nobody agrees with you. You are wrong. You got more than three witnesses against you, that ought to tell ya something. I asked for someone to confirm your claims, no one spoke up. That leads me to believe that I am not the pharisee you accuse me of, and that you are the liar I accuse you of. Stop misleading people, like right now Back off and quit your lies.

 

[LadyBird]

However, you can't go taking a passage and go applying the meaning you think it should have to suit your needs.

LOL. You are accusing ME of doing this? Take a look in the mirror doc. It is wrong to be unequally yoked with non-christians because it is what the Bible says. That is the truth. 2Corinthians 6:14 states it!

I am going to have to agree with Dave. You cannot be trusted and I just pray that a new Christian wont stumble upon this thread and think it's okay to unequally yoked because some guy, takes things out of context, twists the verses around and says that the Bible was translated wrong so that he can live however he wants to.

 

[SirKenin]

LOL. You are accusing ME of doing this? Take a look in the mirror doc. It is wrong to be unequally yoked with non-christians because it is what the Bible says. That is the truth. 2Corinthians 6:14 states it!

I am going to have to agree with Dave. You cannot be trusted and I just pray that a new Christian wont stumble upon this thread and think it's okay to unequally yoked because some guy, takes things out of context, twists the verses around and says that the Bible was translated wrong so that he can live however he wants to.

Sorry you think like that. I don't know what else I could present to you to make the case, than what I already did. All independent and respectable resources. All consistent with each other.

I already gave you the definition of what unequally yoked means from the original Greek, and it has nothing to do with marriage. Seeing the context see what the union was. The Church and the pagans.

The Bible does not encourage it.. But gives provisions if you do. If it was a sin, that wouldn't happen.

You can say I twist them around I guess. I said the same about you. However, you didn't really give me any real reason why like I gave you.

 

[Lizzi4Christ]

This thread has been turned into a flaming war. Thread is closed.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Oops. . did not realize the thread was closed. . .sorry.