Is there two set of rules one in church and one in the world?

[yesyoushould]

I don't know.

 

[Avid]

What sin did he commit, if any?

Again, it is up to you to supply SOME scripture to prove your point. I am not satisfied with "opinion" on it the point.

 

[Hammster]

Again, it is up to you to supply SOME scripture to prove your point. I am not satisfied with "opinion" on it the point.

I did prove my point. Now we are on to yours. If Abraham sinned, and needs a Savior, where does scripture say he sinned? What sins?

 

[Bluelion]

This is a point I wanted to make by not saying it, implying it, agreeing in principle or any of that. To say these things REQUIRES that scripture saying that very thing be quoted. I have heard the SAME ACCUSATIONS against Jesus by Churchgoing people. It is part of the SAME ERROR used to excuse a person not having victory over sin.

Had people try to say Jesus sinned by not obeying His "parents" when he was 12 years old. Also, the accusation was hurled at Him by the world and some Church people that He sinned when He drove the Moneychangers out of the Temple. A Methodist Minister tried to tell me of the sexual orientation (according to his conjecture) of the Son of God... Not even going to explain that guy's reasoning. It would be an abomination to repeat it, and likely hurt many people to even say it.

Do you agree with these things people say about WHO SINNED in scripture? Do you believe that Jesus sinned because of what Church people, or some WORLDLY SONG WRITER, has conjectured? I do not believe what you are posting, and that is by that same standard you should not believe any of those people.


This is accurate, again, because the scriptures never say he was. Other scriptures indicate that type of status being applied to other people, but I had not read it applied to him anywhere in scripture. Yet again, the reason to believe or not believe something is because of what the scriptures say.

I have certain impressions of things, and some I have not said to any or many. That is because they are NOT expressly stated in any manner in the scriptures. I may have assurance from God that they are so, but would not try to make those opinions a test of faith.

The world needs Jesus to sin because that is what Gave Jesus victory over satan. The fact Jesus never sinned show He not only conquered satan but dominated him. So sure people will say He sinned or He was not born of a Virgin, they will do anything they can to try to take away the victory, but it can not be erased.

I have great respect for father Abraham, but Jesus the only one not to sin. Now others were counted with out fault because of their faith, But Jesus was the only one to fulfill the Law.

I do not agree with any one who says Jesus sinned.

As far as Jesus at 12 He never disobey His parents. They left thinking Jesus was with them, and then went back and Jesus was right where they left Him. There was no transgression. It was the parents mistake not keeping an eye on Jesus. Even in today's world if a parent left a kid say in the car we do not blame the child now do we? That is sad issue though children being left in the car, and was one of my great fears when my son was young. I never did leave him any where thanks to God.

I hope I answered your questions, if there is anything I missed please point them out and I will answer them.

Peace and Love
blu

 

[Avid]

I did prove my point. Now we are on to yours. If Abraham sinned, and needs a Savior, where does scripture say he sinned? What sins?

That is not my point, it is your own.

 

[Hammster]

That is not my point, it is your own.

Could you be clear? Did Abraham need a Savior? If so, why?

 

[Bluelion]

This is clearly taught in scripture, expessly in the writings attributed to Paul the Apostle, a Hebrew of the Hebrews! (Phil.3:4-6)

Romans 9
6 ¶ Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Galatians 3
6 ¶ Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Matthew 3
7 ¶ But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
​

Important to believe the truth of the scriptures above any other authority.

Also God said look at the stars and try to count them that is how many descendants you will have.

That is not possible through bloodline only by Faith.

 

[Avid]

... I hope I answered your questions, if there is anything I missed please point them out and I will answer them...

Yours was a good answer for the question, but it was not directed at you. I had asked because of how it is expected I'll follow down some dark path. If there is no scripture for a point, I'll let it remain merely the opinion of other people.

This type of thing is the cause of much trouble and distress, that doctrine could be based purely in opinion. When we see opinion that is not backed by scripture, it is not my job to support that. It works the same for curious children and obstinate elders alike. I don't even like repeating, quoting, and certainly not, explaining the errors some people espouse.

Spent too much time (years) trying to learn what God meant and said, and put aside too much of what I had heard in Church. There are things that are commonly accepted without scripture to back them. Those I try to avoid.

 

[Bluelion]

What sin did he commit, if any?

If i was to start accusing someone and then asked other kids on the play ground to join in in my attacks of this kid or other kids, i would be leading others in to sin no? I hope this is not what you are doing and I am not saying you are, but God says woe to those people it be better they not born at all.

The things you say about Abraham comes across as nothing more than jealousy, are you jealous? Paul said in 1 Cor 13 love is not jealous. It is a sin to be jealous of any Christian Brother or Sister and that carries into the world as well it is a sin to be jealous of others. This is a issue in the church as well, some say well sure I should not be jealous of my Christian Brother or Sister, but I am jealous of so and so and his house and cars. It's still a sin. It comes off as covenanting your neighbor goods. A person can not love and be jealous of a person at the same time.

The other statement you made you are pretty sure Abraham is not our father by Faith? Did I understand you right? Seems like your gambling but don't really know and that is a pretty big gamble. If Abraham is not our father then we are not Israel, we have not in fact been graft into the tree. So you see when God said we were grafted into the tree He meant it.

Peace and Love
blu

 

[Bluelion]

Could you be clear? Did Abraham need a Savior? If so, why?

whats that got to do with the price of eggs in china?

Lets go back you said the issue was Abraham sinned when he said Sarah was his sister. He did not, the fact He sinned at some point in his life does not make your case He sinned by telling people Sarah was his sister. And what does any of this have to do with two set rules for church and the world?

 

[Hammster]

If i was to start accusing someone and then asked other kids on the play ground to join in in my attacks of this kid or other kids, i would be leading others in to sin no? I hope this is not what you are doing and I am not saying you are, but God says woe to those people it be better they not born at all.

Not what I'm doing.

The things you say about Abraham comes across as nothing more than jealousy, are you jealous? Paul said in 1 Cor 13 love is not jealous. It is a sin to be jealous of any Christian Brother or Sister and that carries into the world as well it is a sin to be jealous of others. This is a issue in the church as well, some say well sure I should not be jealous of my Christian Brother or Sister, but I am jealous of so and so and his house and cars. It's still a sin. It comes off as covenanting your neighbor goods. A person can not love and be jealous of a person at the same time.

What things have I said about Abraham that make you think I'm jealous?

The other statement you made you are pretty sure Abraham is not our father by Faith? Did I understand you right? Seems like your gambling but don't really know and that is a pretty big gamble. If Abraham is not our father then we are not Israel, we have not in fact been graft into the tree. So you see when God said we were grafted into the tree He meant it.

Peace and Love
blu

I'm saying that I don't think I need to honor him in the same way I honor my dad.

 

[Hammster]

whats that got to do with the price of eggs in china?

Lets go back you said the issue was Abraham sinned when he said Sarah was his sister. He did not, the fact He sinned at some point in his life does not make your case He sinned by telling people Sarah was his sister. And what does any of this have to do with two set rules for church and the world?

If you don't want to answer the question, that's fine. But you brought up Abraham as some person who wasn't worldly.

 

[Bluelion]

If you don't want to answer the question, that's fine. But you brought up Abraham as some person who wasn't worldly.

I did how so?

 

[yesyoushould]

Abraham is of God, not worldly.

 

[Bluelion]

Not what I'm doing.
What things have I said about Abraham that make you think I'm jealous?

I'm saying that I don't think I need to honor him in the same way I honor my dad.

Just the whole pointing out his flaws and all usually people do that when they are Jealous of some one, i am not say you are, just saying that is what some people do who are.

 

[Bluelion]

Abraham is of God, not worldly.

Good point children of God are born of spirit and as God says are not part of the world but from Heaven. For the world would love one of there own but they hate you because you are not of the world.

 

[yesyoushould]

Good point children of God are born of spirit and as God says are not part of the world but from Heaven. For the world would love one of there own but they hate you because you are not of the world.

I hate being hated. Oh well.

 

[Bluelion]

I hate being hated. Oh well.

we have a large family and the love of God, so what the world hates us, God and Heaven love us.

I do understand though it can be rough, when you start losing friends and family members it can get to you, but God said what ever we give up for His sake we receive a hundred fold in Heaven. So there is that

 

[yesyoushould]

we have a large family and the love of God, so what the world hates us, God and Heaven love us.

I do understand though it can be rough, when you start losing friends and family members it can get to you, but God said what ever we give up for His sake we receive a hundred fold in Heaven. So there is that

Thank you so much for the encouragement. God is so awesome.

 

[Bluelion]

Thank you so much for the encouragement. God is so awesome.

Its why we call Him God