IS THERE SUBJECT CALLED OSAS ?

[Dan Perez]

As a very young man , I attended a assembly that BELIEVED in OSAS and did not meant and any one that held that position and never ever

heard it preached from the pulpit !! can you LOOSE YOUR SALVATION ??

What say you ?

dan p

 

[Aristarkos]

As a very young man , I attended a assembly that BELIEVED in OSAS and did not meant and any one that held that position and never ever

heard it preached from the pulpit !! can you LOOSE YOUR SALVATION ??

What say you ?

dan p

Of course you can, salvation doesn't become part of you, it's a gift of grace. If at one point in time you decide to no longer believe or no longer want it — because a sinful life pleases you more — you returned the gift. There is a way of salvation and it takes a lot of work to go to the end of that way.

Aristarkos

 

[d taylor]

-​

Your first sentence is hard to understand the last part
(did not meant and any one that held that position and never ever)


No, No, No a thousand times No, a person who has believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation and has become a born again child of God. Can not become unborn again and lose their Eternal Life salvation.

 

[RamiC]

As a very young man , I attended a assembly that BELIEVED in OSAS and did not meant and any one that held that position and never ever

heard it preached from the pulpit !! can you LOOSE YOUR SALVATION ??

What say you ?

dan p

Yes there is subject "Once Saved Always Saved".

This is an interesting thing to consider, click this it is a link, regarding the subject of is it true?

 

[Dan Perez]

Aristarkos

And , if can loose salvation , will you give a verse where THAT is written ??

dan p

 

[Josheb]

As a very young man , I attended a assembly that BELIEVED in OSAS and did not meant and any one that held that position and never ever

heard it preached from the pulpit !! can you LOOSE YOUR SALVATION ??

What say you ?

dan p

Well....

First, I would ask why this is a Dispensationalism question and not something that should have been posted in the Soteriology board?

Second, I will respectfully suggest that the question is not, "Can you lose your salvation?" but, instead, "Will God lose His salvation of you?" I say this for two reasons. The first reason is because salvation is God's not yours. He saved you; you did not save yourself. The second reason is because OSAS says, "No, you cannot lose your salvation," but OSAS is not based on anything having to do with you. OSAS is the "P" in TULIP, which is otherwise known as Perseverance of the Saints, also known as Eternal Security. These labels are unfortunate because they often seem to indicate something human-centric but the Calvinist doctrine of salvation, the monergist soteriology, is never human-centric. It is always Theo-centric. What the "P" in TULIP teaches is that God will finish the work He began in those He saves.

You, nor I, are powerful enough to wrest ourselves from the grasp of the almighty God. It is arrogance, hubris, to think otherwise. Nor can you or I make worthless the price paid for us - the shed blood of Christ - which is what would happen if someone God saved did not actually get saved.

There are a lot of poseurs in Christianity. These are people that claim to be saved, many of them even have an appearance of salvation and believe with all their heart they are saved... only to cease acting like that is the case five, ten, twenty, forty years after their supposed conversion. They were never saved in the first place.

What say you ?

I say, no, a saved person cannot and will not lose his/her salvation because the matter of salvation is not up to them.

 

[Josheb]

As a very young man , I attended a assembly that BELIEVED in OSAS and did not meant and any one that held that position and never ever

heard it preached from the pulpit !! can you LOOSE YOUR SALVATION ??

What say you ?

dan p

Now tha I've answered and addressed the op's inquiry, I'll comment on Dispensationalism's teaching on the matter.

There are two camps within Dispensationalism. Classic Dispensationalists that continue to adhere to classic Reformed doctrines tend to be monergistic, whereas more modern Dispensationalists often subscribe to synergism. Both groups will agree that salvation is by grace through faith but the former will say both grace and faith come from God according to His will and purpose in salvation and, therefore, regeneration precedes faith. The synergists disagree, asserting faith is a function of the sinner's inherent faculty to respond provided when God made humans back in Eden. That is a matter of debate that has nothing to do with Dispensationalism.

The problem that is Dispensationalism-related is the fact Dispensational Premillennialism (and its modern futurist kin) also teach a co-occurring salvation by works perspective. Dispensational Premillennialists (DPists) don't call it that or acknowledge its existence but that is what DPism teaches. DPism separates the rapture from the second coming and teaches there are two groups of God's people (Israel/Jews and the Church) with two completely different purposes. Israel/Jews will come to salvific faith in Christ as a function of the millennial reign. Either beforehand or during that time a series of events will occur: the Jews will build another temple, they will recapture all the land God originally promised Israel, they will reconstitute the Levitical priesthood and reinstitute animal sacrifices. All of these things are works. All of these accomplishments are taught in DPism as events that will occur in the process of Israel/Jews coming to salvation in Christ. A Jew may come to salvation at any time and become a Christian by professing their faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior BUT those who are left behind after all the Christians are raptured off the planet will have to go through the temple/land/ritual/sacrificial stuff I just mentioned.

That is salvation by grace plus works.

Dispensational Premillennialism teaches to soteriologies, not one. Depending on what kind of Dispensationalist you are (monergist or synergist) it is possible for you to believe you cannot or can lose your salvation and be true to your theology. However, what the Bible teaches is salvation is by grace through faith for works, not by works.

1 Corinthians 3:10-16
According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?​

If a person is not building on the foundation of Christ, then s/he is lost and nothing can or ever will save him/her. In contrast, if a person is building on Jesus, then it is possible for all his/her work to be burned up by God's testing. S/he will lose everything, all their works gone, emerging from God's testing charred and covered in soot but still saved.

 

[Dan Perez]

Now tha I've answered and addressed the op's inquiry, I'll comment on Dispensationalism's teaching on the matter.

There are two camps within Dispensationalism. Classic Dispensationalists that continue to adhere to classic Reformed doctrines tend to be monergistic, whereas more modern Dispensationalists often subscribe to synergism. Both groups will agree that salvation is by grace through faith but the former will say both grace and faith come from God according to His will and purpose in salvation and, therefore, regeneration precedes faith. The synergists disagree, asserting faith is a function of the sinner's inherent faculty to respond provided when God made humans back in Eden. That is a matter of debate that has nothing to do with Dispensationalism.

The problem that is Dispensationalism-related is the fact Dispensational Premillennialism (and its modern futurist kin) also teach a co-occurring salvation by works perspective. Dispensational Premillennialists (DPists) don't call it that or acknowledge its existence but that is what DPism teaches. DPism separates the rapture from the second coming and teaches there are two groups of God's people (Israel/Jews and the Church) with two completely different purposes. Israel/Jews will come to salvific faith in Christ as a function of the millennial reign. Either beforehand or during that time a series of events will occur: the Jews will build another temple, they will recapture all the land God originally promised Israel, they will reconstitute the Levitical priesthood and reinstitute animal sacrifices. All of these things are works. All of these accomplishments are taught in DPism as events that will occur in the process of Israel/Jews coming to salvation in Christ. A Jew may come to salvation at any time and become a Christian by professing their faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior BUT those who are left behind after all the Christians are raptured off the planet will have to go through the temple/land/ritual/sacrificial stuff I just mentioned.

That is salvation by grace plus works.

Dispensational Premillennialism teaches to soteriologies, not one. Depending on what kind of Dispensationalist you are (monergist or synergist) it is possible for you to believe you cannot or can lose your salvation and be true to your theology. However, what the Bible teaches is salvation is by grace through faith for works, not by works.

1 Corinthians 3:10-16 ​

According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?​

If a person is not building on the foundation of Christ, then s/he is lost and nothing can or ever will save him/her. In contrast, if a person is building on Jesus, then it is possible for all his/her work to be burned up by God's testing. S/he will lose everything, all their works gone, emerging from God's testing charred and covered in soot but still saved.

AND i will have to take it your premises one at a time !!

Just asking , can Believer in Christ , commits fornication , to have the wife of the father , will he LOSE his salvation ??

dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

-​

Your first sentence is hard to understand the last part
(did not meant and any one that held that position and never ever)


No, No, No a thousand times No, a person who has believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation and has become a born again child of God. Can not become unborn again and lose their Eternal Life salvation.

And would you believe 1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is BORN of God sinneth NOT // OV , and OV is a DISJUNCATIVE

PARTICLE NEGATIVE , which means you cannot ever sin , your thoughts ??

dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

Of course you can, salvation doesn't become part of you, it's a gift of grace. If at one point in time you decide to no longer believe or no longer want it — because a sinful life pleases you more — you returned the gift. There is a way of salvation and it takes a lot of work to go to the end of that way.

Aristarkos

And you have heard of the WORD , CHOSEN or ELECRION ?

Eph 1:4 says just as we were CHOSEN or ELECTED us Before the OVERTHROW OF THE WORLD for us before holy

and without blemish before Him in love !!

dan p

 

[d taylor]

And would you believe 1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is BORN of God sinneth NOT // OV , and OV is a DISJUNCATIVE

PARTICLE NEGATIVE , which means you cannot ever sin , your thoughts ??

dan p

-
​

Jesus took away the sin of the world on the cross all sin (believers and unbelievers) has been paid and atoned for.

​

What does sinning have to do with loosing a born again child of God Eternal Life.

 

[Aristarkos]

And , if can loose salvation , will you give a verse where THAT is written ??

dan p

Phil. 2:13 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

What is there to work out if it's a done deal?

Aristarkos

 

[Josheb]

AND i will have to take it your premises one at a time !!

Just asking , can Believer in Christ , commits fornication , to have the wife of the father , will he LOSE his salvation ??

dan p

No.

But I would question whether that person is saved. Note that Paul writes to his readers as if they are Christians, actual, genuine, sincere converts to Christ. At least some of them are not but Paul doesn't write that way. The Church of the epistolary is a very messy place, particularly in places like Corinth and Ephesus. One man has been having sex with his father's wife (presumably, not the man's mother) and the congregation knew about it and did nothing. It's not clear from the text, Paul appears to be more upset with the congregation that did nothing than he is with the man committing sexual immorality (which, according to Galatians 5:19-21 would be a work of the flesh that would prevent him from inheriting God's kingdom. Paul wrote something very curious. He directed the congregation (or it's leaders) to hand the man over to Satan so that his body might be destroyed..... but his spirit saved.

1 Corinthians 5:1-5
It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst. For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Now that is an eschatological statement, not merely a soteriological one. I do not know your particular eschatological pov, and there are many different views among us. The "day of the Lord" is a phrase commonly used throughout the entirety of scripture to mean a particular point or time of judgment. In the first century that phrase often referred to the pending destruction of Jerusalem, which all the Christian (especially those who'd heard Jesus preach in person) knew ahead of time was coming. Bot the day of the Lord is also a reference to the day appointed for every man to stand before God and face judgment (Heb 9:27). I'll leave you to decide how you want to read verse 5, but the salient point is that Paul has decided on a course of action that will save the man. Compare that response to how Paul treats folks like Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Tim. 2). They are treated as people not saved, as false teachers, not authentic or genuine ones.

The matter of the 1 Cor. 5 adulterer's future salvation also brings up another matter because the New Testament also speaks of salvation as something that has occurred, something that is occurring and something that will occur. People are saved, they are being saved, and they will be saved. In other words, salvation is conjugates with past, present, and future language. Most Christian soteriology recognizes that salvation begins with a specific moment of conversion, continues on through the process of sanctification, and is completed when each of us is raised incorruptible and immortal. Salvation is not a fixed moment, but a process in which we are created in Christ.

Lastly, when it comes to sin, no Christian is perfect on this side of the grave and (generally speaking) one sin is as bad as another to God. All the works of flesh mentioned in Galatians 5 are prohibitive and 1) that lst is not exhaustive, and 2) that list is not hierarchical. Sin kills. There are a few Christians who subscribe to sinless perfectionism but that is generally considered a heretical viewpoint. Christians sin. Paul sinned after his conversion. So, too did Peter. Neither of them committed adultery but Peter is recorded to have behaved in a hypocritical manner so severe that some left the faith. "Woe to that man by whom the offense comes." Church leaders (shepherds) are held to a much higher standard than the sheep (Jms. 3:1). Yet never did Paul treat Peter as a non-Christian, an outsider.

If the sexually immoral man of 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 was building on the foundation of Christ, then he was saved. All his works would prove to be worthless and become incinerated when facing God, but according to Paul the man will be saved. Note that Paul wrote those words assuring salvation earlier in the exact same epistle. It is reasonable, therefore, to think Paul might have been providing an example of what he'd written earlier. However, the rest of chapter 5 is very harsh. Paul directs the Corinthian congregation to remove the evil person from among them, which would mean Paul considered the man evil, specifically because he was behaving in a sexually immoral manner. I will add a personally anecdotal report because, as a professional counselor who specialized in marriage, trauma, and addiction, most sexually immoral people don't commit sexual immorality only once. A man who will have sex with his father's wife will likely have sex with anything. That guy (or gal) is not saved.

One of the great paradoxes of Christianity is that Hitler, Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin all might be in the same exact place right now. If, in the moment before that bullet passed through his skull, Hitler repented, begged for forgiveness, and called upon Jesus as his Lord and Savior then he's in heaven. That's not likely, but that is possible. Likewise, even though Churchill fought against Hitler and his evil regime, Churchill fought on the side of "good," but the fact remains if he did not know Jesus as his Lord and Savior then he is in hell.

Doubt is a normal part of Christianity. We are saved by grace. The chief task for us to perform is to believe. No matter what else happens in your life or mine we are to believe in Jesus. If you and I believe in Jesus for our salvation from sin and wrath with our last breath we are saved. That being said, faith is supposed to beget faithfulness. A faith that does not affect faithfulness is a fruitless faith and the purpose of our being created in Christ is so we will perform good works (Eph. 2:10). That is why scripture places so much emphasis on what we do (or are supposed to be doing), beginning with loving God and loving others. The apostle John also wrote to address the matter of doubt and assurance when he said,

1 John 5:1-15
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.


Christians worry about their salvation sometimes. It's a paradox because, according to Paul... anything not done in faith is a sin! So I reiterate: your salvation is not yours. It is God's. God is the one who saves the sinner from sin and wrath, not the sinner. God is almighty and if He has saved a person then He will finish that task. If you and I have genuinely been saved then God has saved, is saving us, and will save us.

.

 

[Dan Perez]

Phil. 2:13 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

What is there to work out if it's a done deal?

Aristarkos

And I use the KJV , only and here is this translation !!

For it is God , DO YOU ALL NOTICE THAT , IT IS GOD , the one operating in YOU , both to will the thing and to operate

for HIS GOOD PLEASURE .

dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

-
​

Jesus took away the sin of the world on the cross all sin (believers and unbelievers) has been paid and atoned for.

​

What does sinning have to do with loosing a born again child of God Eternal Life.

MY reply is what does 1 John 5:18 mean ??

dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

No.

But I would question whether that person is saved. Note that Paul writes to his readers as if they are Christians, actual, genuine, sincere converts to Christ. At least some of them are not but Paul doesn't write that way. The Church of the epistolary is a very messy place, particularly in places like Corinth and Ephesus. One man has been having sex with his father's wife (presumably, not the man's mother) and the congregation knew about it and did nothing. It's not clear from the text, Paul appears to be more upset with the congregation that did nothing than he is with the man committing sexual immorality (which, according to Galatians 5:19-21 would be a work of the flesh that would prevent him from inheriting God's kingdom. Paul wrote something very curious. He directed the congregation (or it's leaders) to hand the man over to Satan so that his body might be destroyed..... but his spirit saved.

1 Corinthians 5:1-5
It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst. For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Now that is an eschatological statement, not merely a soteriological one. I do not know your particular eschatological pov, and there are many different views among us. The "day of the Lord" is a phrase commonly used throughout the entirety of scripture to mean a particular point or time of judgment. In the first century that phrase often referred to the pending destruction of Jerusalem, which all the Christian (especially those who'd heard Jesus preach in person) knew ahead of time was coming. Bot the day of the Lord is also a reference to the day appointed for every man to stand before God and face judgment (Heb 9:27). I'll leave you to decide how you want to read verse 5, but the salient point is that Paul has decided on a course of action that will save the man. Compare that response to how Paul treats folks like Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Tim. 2). They are treated as people not saved, as false teachers, not authentic or genuine ones.

The matter of the 1 Cor. 5 adulterer's future salvation also brings up another matter because the New Testament also speaks of salvation as something that has occurred, something that is occurring and something that will occur. People are saved, they are being saved, and they will be saved. In other words, salvation is conjugates with past, present, and future language. Most Christian soteriology recognizes that salvation begins with a specific moment of conversion, continues on through the process of sanctification, and is completed when each of us is raised incorruptible and immortal. Salvation is not a fixed moment, but a process in which we are created in Christ.

Lastly, when it comes to sin, no Christian is perfect on this side of the grave and (generally speaking) one sin is as bad as another to God. All the works of flesh mentioned in Galatians 5 are prohibitive and 1) that lst is not exhaustive, and 2) that list is not hierarchical. Sin kills. There are a few Christians who subscribe to sinless perfectionism but that is generally considered a heretical viewpoint. Christians sin. Paul sinned after his conversion. So, too did Peter. Neither of them committed adultery but Peter is recorded to have behaved in a hypocritical manner so severe that some left the faith. "Woe to that man by whom the offense comes." Church leaders (shepherds) are held to a much higher standard than the sheep (Jms. 3:1). Yet never did Paul treat Peter as a non-Christian, an outsider.

If the sexually immoral man of 1 Corinthians 5:1-5 was building on the foundation of Christ, then he was saved. All his works would prove to be worthless and become incinerated when facing God, but according to Paul the man will be saved. Note that Paul wrote those words assuring salvation earlier in the exact same epistle. It is reasonable, therefore, to think Paul might have been providing an example of what he'd written earlier. However, the rest of chapter 5 is very harsh. Paul directs the Corinthian congregation to remove the evil person from among them, which would mean Paul considered the man evil, specifically because he was behaving in a sexually immoral manner. I will add a personally anecdotal report because, as a professional counselor who specialized in marriage, trauma, and addiction, most sexually immoral people don't commit sexual immorality only once. A man who will have sex with his father's wife will likely have sex with anything. That guy (or gal) is not saved.

One of the great paradoxes of Christianity is that Hitler, Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin all might be in the same exact place right now. If, in the moment before that bullet passed through his skull, Hitler repented, begged for forgiveness, and called upon Jesus as his Lord and Savior then he's in heaven. That's not likely, but that is possible. Likewise, even though Churchill fought against Hitler and his evil regime, Churchill fought on the side of "good," but the fact remains if he did not know Jesus as his Lord and Savior then he is in hell.

Doubt is a normal part of Christianity. We are saved by grace. The chief task for us to perform is to believe. No matter what else happens in your life or mine we are to believe in Jesus. If you and I believe in Jesus for our salvation from sin and wrath with our last breath we are saved. That being said, faith is supposed to beget faithfulness. A faith that does not affect faithfulness is a fruitless faith and the purpose of our being created in Christ is so we will perform good works (Eph. 2:10). That is why scripture places so much emphasis on what we do (or are supposed to be doing), beginning with loving God and loving others. The apostle John also wrote to address the matter of doubt and assurance when he said,

1 John 5:1-15
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for the testimony of God is this, that He has testified concerning His Son. The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.


Christians worry about their salvation sometimes. It's a paradox because, according to Paul... anything not done in faith is a sin! So I reiterate: your salvation is not yours. It is God's. God is the one who saves the sinner from sin and wrath, not the sinner. God is almighty and if He has saved a person then He will finish that task. If you and I have genuinely been saved then God has saved, is saving us, and will save us.

.

That happened in 1 COR 5:1-5 and what was the out come ??

dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

Of course you can, salvation doesn't become part of you, it's a gift of grace. If at one point in time you decide to no longer believe or no longer want it — because a sinful life pleases you more — you returned the gift. There is a way of salvation and it takes a lot of work to go to the end of that way.

Aristarkos

You say that salvation DOESN' T become part of you , I have never heard that and a verse where it says that , PLEASE ??

DAN P

 

[Aristarkos]

You say that salvation DOESN' T become part of you , I have never heard that and a verse where it says that , PLEASE ??

DAN P

You didn't see this reply of mine above..?

Phil. 2:12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

What is there to work out if it's a done deal?

Aristarkos

 

[HIM]

Now tha I've answered and addressed the op's inquiry, I'll comment on Dispensationalism's teaching on the matter.

There are two camps within Dispensationalism. Classic Dispensationalists that continue to adhere to classic Reformed doctrines tend to be monergistic, whereas more modern Dispensationalists often subscribe to synergism. Both groups will agree that salvation is by grace through faith but the former will say both grace and faith come from God according to His will and purpose in salvation and, therefore, regeneration precedes faith. The synergists disagree, asserting faith is a function of the sinner's inherent faculty to respond provided when God made humans back in Eden. That is a matter of debate that has nothing to do with Dispensationalism.

The problem that is Dispensationalism-related is the fact Dispensational Premillennialism (and its modern futurist kin) also teach a co-occurring salvation by works perspective. Dispensational Premillennialists (DPists) don't call it that or acknowledge its existence but that is what DPism teaches. DPism separates the rapture from the second coming and teaches there are two groups of God's people (Israel/Jews and the Church) with two completely different purposes. Israel/Jews will come to salvific faith in Christ as a function of the millennial reign. Either beforehand or during that time a series of events will occur: the Jews will build another temple, they will recapture all the land God originally promised Israel, they will reconstitute the Levitical priesthood and reinstitute animal sacrifices. All of these things are works. All of these accomplishments are taught in DPism as events that will occur in the process of Israel/Jews coming to salvation in Christ. A Jew may come to salvation at any time and become a Christian by professing their faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior BUT those who are left behind after all the Christians are raptured off the planet will have to go through the temple/land/ritual/sacrificial stuff I just mentioned.

That is salvation by grace plus works.

Dispensational Premillennialism teaches to soteriologies, not one. Depending on what kind of Dispensationalist you are (monergist or synergist) it is possible for you to believe you cannot or can lose your salvation and be true to your theology. However, what the Bible teaches is salvation is by grace through faith for works, not by works.

1 Corinthians 3:10-16 ​

According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?​

If a person is not building on the foundation of Christ, then s/he is lost and nothing can or ever will save him/her. In contrast, if a person is building on Jesus, then it is possible for all his/her work to be burned up by God's testing. S/he will lose everything, all their works gone, emerging from God's testing charred and covered in soot but still saved.

1Cor 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
1Cor 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Cor 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
1Cor 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
1Cor 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

A building or husbandry does not build or water itself. The ministers are the builders and waters. Those ministered to are the gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw. God giveth the increase, supplies the suitable materiel. We are that work, the materiel which makes the Temple of God, Christ being the foundation. And if we are burn up on that day, the worker, the master builder, the waterer will suffer loss, us because we will be burned up but they themselves will be saved through the fire on that day. They are not responsible for what we are. They can not tell what type of materiel we are because God only sees the heart. But it will become evident on that day, revealed by fire. If we defile the Temple by not being suitable materiel we will be destroyed, burned up. But not the builder, the worker. They will suffer loss, be grieved by our destruction, but will be saved through the fire.

 

[HIM]

You didn't see this reply of mine above..?

Aristarkos

Without Salvation here and now there will be none when Christ comes in Judgement. For it is God that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. This is how we are saved now. For with man this is impossible. But with God all things are possible. For he that commits sin is a slave to it. But the slave shall not abide in the house forever. But the Son forever. And if the Son shall set us free from this slavery to sin. Free we are indeed. For the law of the Spirit of the life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the Law of sin and death. That the righteousness of the law be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. For if we walk after the flesh we shall die. But if we in the Spirt mortifying the deeds of the Body, then we shall live.