IS THERE SUBJECT CALLED OSAS ?

[HIM]

That happened in 1 COR 5:1-5 and what was the out come ??

dan p

1Cor 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


May be saved not will be saved. The word saved is in the aorist passive subjunctive mood. As you might know the subjunctive mood is used when something may or may not happen.

 

[HIM]

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​

Jesus took away the sin of the world on the cross all sin (believers and unbelievers) has been paid and atoned for.

​

What does sinning have to do with loosing a born again child of God Eternal Life.

He condemned sin in the flesh that the righteousness of God be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit of the life in Christ Jesus and not after the flesh, For If walk after the flesh we shall die. But if we through the Spirit mortify the deeds of the Body we shall live.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

As a very young man , I attended a assembly that BELIEVED in OSAS and did not meant and any one that held that position and never ever

heard it preached from the pulpit !! can you LOOSE YOUR SALVATION ??

What say you ?

dan p

OSAS is a part of a broader doctrine adhered to by Calvin, known as Calvinism. I have written a rebuttal of Calvinism at The Way and Free Will it also contains the topic of OSAS, a thing I do not believe. I also speak of the unpardonable sin, and how while we seek repentance we find it Answers to Christians Questions | Everybody Matters Ministry That there is not a sin that God will not forgive if we have genuine repentance.

 

[HIM]

OSAS is a part of a broader doctrine adhered to by Calvin, known as Calvinism. I have written a rebuttal of Calvinism at The Way and Free Will it also contains the topic of OSAS, a thing I do not believe. I also speak of the unpardonable sin, and how while we seek repentance we find it Answers to Christians Questions | Everybody Matters Ministry That there is not a sin that God will not forgive if we have genuine repentance.

Why not just post your thoughts here? Not sure why you think people are going to jump all over.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Why not just post your thoughts here? Not sure why you think people are going to jump all over.

The reason is it is a big topic, and a few words for me are inadequate. There can be multiple reasons why a person asks about OSAS, it could be they are interested in doctrine, or it could be they have doubts about their own salvation. The first link I provided discusses the doctrine, the second the issue of worry about salvation.

 

[Aristarkos]

Without Salvation here and now there will be none when Christ comes in Judgement. For it is God that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. This is how we are saved now. For with man this is impossible. But with God all things are possible. For he that commits sin is a slave to it. But the slave shall not abide in the house forever. But the Son forever. And if the Son shall set us free from this slavery to sin. Free we are indeed. For the law of the Spirit of the life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the Law of sin and death. That the righteousness of the law be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. For if we walk after the flesh we shall die. But if we in the Spirt mortifying the deeds of the Body, then we shall live.

I wonder why you're talking about the law here, while it is about whether or not salvation is permanent, you left out the part I quoted that says it's not permanent, you have to work it out. So according to Paul, salvation has to be "earned" every day. You have to work it out with fear and trembling, you can't just rest on your laurels.

Aristarkos

 

[Sabertooth]

Fleshly debate --even if one side proves to be more correct-- cannot replace John 14:26.

"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed,

not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence,​

work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." Philippians 2:12-13 NKJV

 

[Josheb]

That happened in 1 COR 5:1-5 and what was the out come ??

dan p

??? Did I not already answer that question?

Paul decided to have that man handed over to Satan for the destruction of his body so that his spirit might be saved. Everybody dies. In fact, it has been appointed that all die once and then face judgment. We may not know by what manner Satan would see fit to destroy the man's body but according to that passage the purpose would be specifically for the salvation of the man's spirit.

Acts 4:11-12
This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

If the man was saved from sin, then he was saved solely in the person and name of Jesus.

 

[Josheb]

A building or husbandry does not build or water itself. The ministers are the builders and waters.

Incorrect.

Our hope is in a dwelling and a city not built by human hands. The building in which we labor was built by God.

Acts 7:48-50
Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made by hands, as the prophet says, "Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me, says the Lord, or what is the place of my rest? Did not my hand make all these things?"

Acts 17:24-28
The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we also are His children.'

Hebrews 3:1-4
Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession; He was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was in all His house. For He has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by just so much as the builder of the house has more honor than the house. For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God.

Hebrews 11:8-10
By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God.


The point of 1 Corinthians 3:1-12 is that works of the flesh have no value to God. They will all burn away. If the foundation upon which works of flesh were added is Jesus, however, that individual will be saved.


Ephesians 2:19-22
So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

The "foundation of the apostles and prophets" is Jesus (who is the foundation, cornerstone, capstone, and building).

Those ministered to are the gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw. God giveth the increase, supplies the suitable materiel. We are that work, the materiel which makes the Temple of God, Christ being the foundation. And if we are burn up on that day, the worker, the master builder, the waterer will suffer loss, us because we will be burned up but they themselves will be saved through the fire on that day. They are not responsible for what we are. They can not tell what type of materiel we are because God only sees the heart. But it will become evident on that day, revealed by fire. If we defile the Temple by not being suitable materiel we will be destroyed, burned up. But not the builder, the worker.

That may be well and good (and correct)..... but what is the question to be answered in this op?

They will suffer loss, be grieved by our destruction, but will be saved through the fire.

Yep. Thank you for the affirmation.

 

[Josheb]

"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed,

not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence,​

work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." Philippians 2:12-13 NKJV

To whom was that written?

 

[Dan Perez]

1Cor 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


May be saved not will be saved. The word saved is in the aorist passive subjunctive mood. As you might know the subjunctive mood is used when something may or may not happen.

And you are correct that it is in the AORIST TENSE , and you left out the PASSIVE VOICE and that Christ is doing the action

of salvation , and is also in the SUBJUNCTIVE MOOD , and in the SINGULAR !!

dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

-​

Your first sentence is hard to understand the last part
(did not meant and any one that held that position and never ever)


No, No, No a thousand times No, a person who has believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation and has become a born again child of God. Can not become unborn again and lose their Eternal Life salvation.

And I say that if you believe Rom 10 :9 that dos not mean you are BORN AGAIN !!

Israel is the ONLY that becomes BORN AGAIN , Period !!

dan p

 

[HIM]

I wonder why you're talking about the law here, while it is about whether or not salvation is permanent, you left out the part I quoted that says it's not permanent, you have to work it out. So according to Paul, salvation has to be "earned" every day. You have to work it out with fear and trembling, you can't just rest on your laurels.

Aristarkos

Salvation is also the deliverance from the power of sin not just the consequences. We now live through the spirit to mortify the deeds of the body. If not we shall die

 

[Dan Perez]

Now tha I've answered and addressed the op's inquiry, I'll comment on Dispensationalism's teaching on the matter.

There are two camps within Dispensationalism. Classic Dispensationalists that continue to adhere to classic Reformed doctrines tend to be monergistic, whereas more modern Dispensationalists often subscribe to synergism. Both groups will agree that salvation is by grace through faith but the former will say both grace and faith come from God according to His will and purpose in salvation and, therefore, regeneration precedes faith. The synergists disagree, asserting faith is a function of the sinner's inherent faculty to respond provided when God made humans back in Eden. That is a matter of debate that has nothing to do with Dispensationalism.

The problem that is Dispensationalism-related is the fact Dispensational Premillennialism (and its modern futurist kin) also teach a co-occurring salvation by works perspective. Dispensational Premillennialists (DPists) don't call it that or acknowledge its existence but that is what DPism teaches. DPism separates the rapture from the second coming and teaches there are two groups of God's people (Israel/Jews and the Church) with two completely different purposes. Israel/Jews will come to salvific faith in Christ as a function of the millennial reign. Either beforehand or during that time a series of events will occur: the Jews will build another temple, they will recapture all the land God originally promised Israel, they will reconstitute the Levitical priesthood and reinstitute animal sacrifices. All of these things are works. All of these accomplishments are taught in DPism as events that will occur in the process of Israel/Jews coming to salvation in Christ. A Jew may come to salvation at any time and become a Christian by professing their faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior BUT those who are left behind after all the Christians are raptured off the planet will have to go through the temple/land/ritual/sacrificial stuff I just mentioned.

That is salvation by grace plus works.

Dispensational Premillennialism teaches to soteriologies, not one. Depending on what kind of Dispensationalist you are (monergist or synergist) it is possible for you to believe you cannot or can lose your salvation and be true to your theology. However, what the Bible teaches is salvation is by grace through faith for works, not by works.

1 Corinthians 3:10-16 ​

According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?​

If a person is not building on the foundation of Christ, then s/he is lost and nothing can or ever will save him/her. In contrast, if a person is building on Jesus, then it is possible for all his/her work to be burned up by God's testing. S/he will lose everything, all their works gone, emerging from God's testing charred and covered in soot but still saved.

And I am a ACTS 9 , DIPENSATIONALIST , PER-TRI and PER- MILL and there is no Greek for RAPTURE AT ALL !!

And is no works im Eph 2:8 , for by Grace you are having been saved , through faith and NOT // OU , and is a

DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , which means no one can everrrrrrrrr be saved by WORKS !

dan p

dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

Of course you can, salvation doesn't become part of you, it's a gift of grace. If at one point in time you decide to no longer believe or no longer want it — because a sinful life pleases you more — you returned the gift. There is a way of salvation and it takes a lot of work to go to the end of that way.

Aristarkos

And Gal 3:28 says that we ARE // ESTE is in the Greek , PRESENT TENSE and that means WE are always in Christ !!

dan p

 

[Dan Perez]

You didn't see this reply of mine above..?

Aristarkos

I have never heard that you can return the GIFT , and where is that WRITTEN ??

dan p

 

[linux.poet]

MOD HAT ON​

This thread has been moved from Dispensationalism to Salvation (Soteriology). ​

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[HIM]

Incorrect.

Our hope is in a dwelling and a city not built by human hands. The building in which we labor was built by God.

Know you not we are the Temple of God is what the verse says. Not sure what your issue is. The text in 1 Cor is not speaking of the New City.

 

[Aristarkos]

I have never heard that you can return the GIFT , and where is that WRITTEN ??

dan p

Have you ever read I Corinthians 12? You see there a lot of the gifts of God mentioned, most of these God took back, they are no longer among us. Faith is a gift as well according to Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God". You think God can take back the gift of raising the dead and not the gift of faith? Paul warns about losing faith - not putting on the whole armour of God in Ephesians, see Ephesians 6:11 - 13.

Aristarkos

 

[fhansen]

As a very young man , I attended a assembly that BELIEVED in OSAS and did not meant and any one that held that position and never ever

heard it preached from the pulpit !! can you LOOSE YOUR SALVATION ??

What say you ?

dan p

Salvation is a matter of union with God, and union with God is a matter of faith. To the extent that they're in fellowhip with Him, they will be overcoming the sin that would otherwise earn them death. To the extent that they're not overcoming that sin, they haven't remained in Him.