Is there salvation after death?

[ClementofA]

Yes, there is clearly salvation after death:

28 Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies, whatsoever they should be blaspheming, 29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin-" 30 for they said, "An unclean spirit has he." (Mark 3, CLV)

31 Therefore I am saying to you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be pardoned men, yet the blasphemy of the spirit shall not be pardoned."
32 And whosoever may be saying a word against the Son of Mankind, it will be pardoned him, yet whoever may be saying aught against the holy spirit, it shall not be pardoned him, neither in this eon nor in that which is impending. (Mt.12:31-32, CLV)

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[LoveofTruth]

Not unless the Universalists are correct about Hell being only temporary.

and they are not correct about that

 

[ClementofA]

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. [1 Tim.1:13]

Saul was a serial killer, like Hitler & others. He was an Inquisitor, persecutor & murderer of those of faith in Jesus. He compelled them to blaspheme, both men and women.

Yet he received mercy because he acted in unbelief & ignorance (1 Tim.1:13). Just as millions of others who have already died in such a condition of unbelief & ignorance shall receive mercy.

"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do", Jesus prayed on the cross.

Like serial killer Inquisitionist Saul, who had not blasphemed the Holy Spirit, neither have those who have died in unbelief and ignorance. Therefore they SHALL be pardoned. Jesus said so:

28 Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies, whatsoever they should be blaspheming, 29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin-" 30 for they said, "An unclean spirit has he." (Mark 3, CLV)

31 Therefore I am saying to you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be pardoned men, yet the blasphemy of the spirit shall not be pardoned."
32 And whosoever may be saying a word against the Son of Mankind, it will be pardoned him, yet whoever may be saying aught against the holy spirit, it shall not be pardoned him, neither in this eon nor in that which is impending. (Mt.12:31-32, CLV)

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[Alithis]

The reference to Hebrews 9:27 does not speak of "an expiration date" for salvation or God's love. After death comes judgement for all, sinners & saints. Judgement can be a good thing:

"When your judgments come upon the earth, the people of the world learn righteousness." (Isa.26:9)

The Greek word for "chastening" here can mean correction:

The Lord is acquainted with the rescue of the devout out of trial, yet is keeping the unjust for chastening in the day of judging. (2 Pet.2:9)

Heb.9:27 says it is appointed to men once to die. Does that deny men can die twice? No. Does it say "only" once? No. If New England is appointed to play the Buffalo Bills twice, does that deny they won't meet again in the playoffs? No. How many times did those raised before the general resurrections die?

I think, in light of the Rapture theory, many Christians would disagree with the statement that 100% of mankind will die and face judgment. Not only that, but Hebrews 9:27 does not say men are "only" going to die once. Lazarus, for one, is a Biblical example of one who died twice & the book of Revelation speaks of the "second death"."

I already provided examples proving Heb.9:27 does not mean death occurs "once & only once". If it did there would be a Bible contradiction & the Bible would be lying.

Paul says "once was i stoned" (2 Cor.11:25). Does that mean he could never be stoned again or stoned twice? Obviously not.

Scripture reveals there are those who will not die even once & implies there are those who will die at least a second time.
There are those who will never die, not even once:

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 says: “For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the
coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.”



We can agree that "it says what it says". But your words do not equate to the "meaning" of the verse, nor have you provided any reason why it should be understood according to - your - opinion - that it establishes a doctrine of "no hope for repentance after death".

Let's be clear. The passage nowhere uses your words "no hope", "hope" or "repentance".

The passage does not rule out repentance "after...judgement".

Neither does it rule out the possibility of repentance after death & before judgement.

It simply doesn't address such issues.

your profile says non denom .. but your words say rcc

 

[Alithis]

Of course there is. Jesus blood is much more powerful than Little Adam's sin.

Most believers do not understand the Tabernacle of David as a type of God's salvation in the ages to come.

Here it is in the New testament

Acts 15: 13-18 (ESV) 16(A) "'After this I will return,and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it 17that the remnant of mankind(B) may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles(C) who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18(D) known from of old.'


Acts 15: 13-18 (Message) James broke the silence. "Friends, listen. Simeon has told us the story of how God at the very outset made sure that racial outsiders were included. This is in perfect agreement with the words of the prophets: After this, I'm coming back; I'll rebuild David's ruined house; I'll put all the pieces together again; I'll make it look like new So outsiders who seek will find, so they'll have a place to come to, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing. "God said it and now he's doing it. It's no afterthought; he's always known he would do this

Acts 15: (Amp) 17So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,

Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord— even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,

Acts 15: 17 (NIRV) Then the rest of the people can look to the Lord. This means all the non-Jews who belong to me. The Lord says this. He is the one who does these things.' —(Amos 9:11,12)

Now if the rest of men may seek the Lord, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing “, “ all the Gentiles , the “remainder of man kind are destroyed as you proclaim in the Lake of Devine Purging (Lake of Fire); then what about this promise.

the promise stands -God is faithful but the promise is applied ONLY to those who in this life repent to God and obey the Gospel. The salvation of God is obtained through believing and thus obeying the one God sent to save . if one does not do so one cannot be saved .for God cannot lie

 

[Alithis]

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. [1 Tim.1:13]

Saul was a serial killer, like Hitler & others. He was an Inquisitor, persecutor & murderer of those of faith in Jesus. He compelled them to blaspheme, both men and women.

Yet he received mercy because he acted in unbelief & ignorance (1 Tim.1:13). Just as millions of others who have already died in such a condition of unbelief & ignorance shall receive mercy.

"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do", Jesus prayed on the cross.

Like serial killer Inquisitionist Saul, who had not blasphemed the Holy Spirit, neither have those who have died in unbelief and ignorance. Therefore they SHALL be pardoned. Jesus said so:

28 Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies, whatsoever they should be blaspheming, 29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin-" 30 for they said, "An unclean spirit has he." (Mark 3, CLV)

31 Therefore I am saying to you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be pardoned men, yet the blasphemy of the spirit shall not be pardoned."
32 And whosoever may be saying a word against the Son of Mankind, it will be pardoned him, yet whoever may be saying aught against the holy spirit, it shall not be pardoned him, neither in this eon nor in that which is impending. (Mt.12:31-32, CLV)

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

Paul still had to repent -he was confronted by the lord JESUS and told what he must do .. but to actually go and do it remained Pauls choice .had he not obeyed he would certainly have not been saved . to be honest what you are saying is a perverting of the Gospel message

 

[Alithis]

We can not live in a state of repentance...
Certainly if we are aware that we have sinned, we should repent it.
And do what we can to rectify the situation, both in making ammends and by changing your life so as not to repeat what you did.
But this is far from remaining sinless.

I think it is far more likely that rather than living in a state of repentance, we live in a state of God's love.
Where sin and repentance is expected. Where God's forgiveness. is assured.
God loves us all, even though we are sinners. And he sent Jesus to show us the way to a fuller life to save us from ourselves.
However God knows we will sin again, and repeadedly so. We are never Saved from this cycle. We can ony pray to improve.

this is quite incorrect - the word repent means to think again to change the mind and go Gods way .. so we are to live in a perpetually repentant state .

 

[Alithis]

We can not live in a state of repentance...
Certainly if we are aware that we have sinned, we should repent it.
And do what we can to rectify the situation, both in making ammends and by changing your life so as not to repeat what you did.
But this is far from remaining sinless.

I think it is far more likely that rather than living in a state of repentance, we live in a state of God's love.
Where sin and repentance is expected. Where God's forgiveness. is assured.
God loves us all, even though we are sinners. And he sent Jesus to show us the way to a fuller life to save us from ourselves.
However God knows we will sin again, and repeadedly so. We are never Saved from this cycle. We can ony pray to improve.

this is quite incorrect - the word repent means to think again to change the mind and go Gods way .. so we are to live in a perpetually repentant state .
we learn to live after the holy Spirit and he cannot sin nor can he lead us into sin so the more we obey him the less we sin. if a person is repetitively doing an action they know to be sin.. they have not yet repented . as John writes no one born of god can continue to practice sin .. OUCH . and he goes onto say" this is how we know WHO is of GOD and who is of the devil .. -ouch again

 

[Alithis]

We can not live in a state of repentance...
Certainly if we are aware that we have sinned, we should repent it.
And do what we can to rectify the situation, both in making ammends and by changing your life so as not to repeat what you did.
But this is far from remaining sinless.

I think it is far more likely that rather than living in a state of repentance, we live in a state of God's love.
Where sin and repentance is expected. Where God's forgiveness. is assured.
God loves us all, even though we are sinners. And he sent Jesus to show us the way to a fuller life to save us from ourselves.
However God knows we will sin again, and repeadedly so. We are never Saved from this cycle. We can ony pray to improve.

this is quite incorrect - the word repent means to think again to change the mind and go Gods way .. so we are to live in a perpetually repentant state .
we learn to live after the holy Spirit and he cannot sin nor can he lead us into sin so the more we obey him the less we sin. if a person is repetitively doing an action they know to be sin.. they have not yet repented . as John writes no one born of god can continue to practice sin .. OUCH . and he goes onto say" this is how we know WHO is of GOD and who is of the devil .. -ouch again

 

[ClementofA]

your profile says non denom .. but your words say rcc

What gives you that notion?

 

[ClementofA]

Paul still had to repent -he was confronted by the lord JESUS and told what he must do .. but to actually go and do it remained Pauls choice .had he not obeyed he would certainly have not been saved . to be honest what you are saying is a perverting of the Gospel message

What happens to a teenager who never blasphemed the Holy Spirit, but who died as an unbeliever?

 

[BobRyan]

What happens to a teenager who never blasphemed the Holy Spirit, but who died as an unbeliever?

There are many ways to go to hell. Not all sin is "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit".

I don't know their case -- but I do know it is not "the safe way" to choose to live as an unbeliever.

 

[BobRyan]

Is there salvation after death?

Those who die lost - remain lost.

Hebrews 9 "It is appointed unto man once to die - and then comes the judgment".

Not "and then comes more chances to live more of your probation and have the Gospel repeatedly offered to you to see if you will accept or not"

 

[Alithis]

What gives you that notion?

-your doctrines

What happens to a teenager who never blasphemed the Holy Spirit, but who died as an unbeliever?

they perish if they do not repent of their sin they know is sin-as Jesus said ," repentance for the forgiveness of sin will be preached . Truth is not based upon human sensitivities .

 

[ClementofA]

There are many ways to go to hell. Not all sin is "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit".

I don't know their case -- but I do know it is not "the safe way" to choose to live as an unbeliever.

According to Jesus, if they haven't blasphemed the Spirit, their sins "shall be pardoned", not - might - be pardoned:

28 Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies, whatsoever they should be blaspheming, 29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin-" 30 for they said, "An unclean spirit has he." (Mark 3, CLV)

31 Therefore I am saying to you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be pardoned men, yet the blasphemy of the spirit shall not be pardoned."
32 And whosoever may be saying a word against the Son of Mankind, it will be pardoned him, yet whoever may be saying aught against the holy spirit, it shall not be pardoned him, neither in this eon nor in that which is impending. (Mt.12:31-32, CLV)

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

 

[ClementofA]

Those who die lost - remain lost.

Hebrews 9 "It is appointed unto man once to die - and then comes the judgment".

Not "and then comes more chances to live more of your probation and have the Gospel repeatedly offered to you to see if you will accept or not"

Nothing in Hebrews 9 says persons "who die lost - remain lost" for eternity. You are reading your own opinions into the text, going beyond what the words of the scriptures say. Does God's love have an expiry date like a carton of milk?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

No™