Is there really a deep state?

[Blood Bought 1953]

Some people have never met a “ conspiracy” that they did not like.....anything is possible in this Fallen world— Trump could be an alien being taking orders from the King Of Zodar ——Wild ideas made up by those with Wild imaginations need evidence and proof that what they are claiming has at least some semblance of reality. To be “ in on” something that others are unaware of can make some people feel special, perhaps even superior to others in the crowd—- I think that plays a large part in all conspiracy theories .

 

[Carl Emerson]

Strange...

So much dialogue - little if any mention of the spiritual powers behind politics and how to deal with them.

"If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face... I will hear from heaven, forgive their sin, and heal their land....

Surely we see players in a spiritual power game that are unwittingly pawns in a late attempt to thwart the closing chapters of humanities wrestle with good and evil.

The end game is already won.

Best to concentrate on personally being in Him daily and leaving the bigger detail up to those who are called.

He is in control.

We are to know His rest.

Who knows what paths of blessing we will be led into if we prioritise daily walking with Him and surrendering to His purpose.

 

[Tom 1]

Like the US at present

No, not really. The US is engaged in a struggle between people who aren’t interested in factual information about the world and just want to be able to continue life as they live it, or go back to the era of Town and City, and people who want to move forward, recognise that everyone is a citizen and the demographic of the US is way different that it was 60 years ago, and engage with the wider world. Both sides are understandable, but the so called puppet masters are just riding the same wave as everyone else. Ironically, it is the firmly established ‘deep state’ that prevents the US from being too easily derailed by outside influences.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

The same can be said of any enemy. Vietnam and Afghanistan were lost to guerrilla warfare.

In the Revolutionary War it was the Colonists That were the “ guerrillas”..... It seems to be a strategy that works....

 

[Broken Fence]

Consider that in order to take over the world, it took over a hundred years of slow change to get to the point we are now so that no one would rebel before the time came they could be thwarted. Remember that the system is more important to the players than if they themselves see the day. They see it as a family enterprise to be carried on, the winners taking all. Even the billionaires are beholden to these who control the purse strings. The last 20 years has showed us the planners are not afraid to become more open with their deceptions in their giddiness as they see the end of their plans for a global system coming near. The last three months has been a pie in the face and yet many still don't recognize a test run if it hit them.

Good point.

 

[RDKirk]

Of course there's a deep a state. Political decisions are not made entirely by elected officials or people appointed by them. The bulk of government positions are composed of career bureaucrats who, while elected leaders come and go, pursue their own political policies independent of which party controls the government. This is what we call "the deep state".

You seem to be talking about the basic functional bureaucracy. But what makes you think they're making "political" decisions?

Having been a member of that bureaucracy myself for a quarter of a century, I'd say that the only "political policy" of the so-called "deep state" itself is a tendency to maintain the status quo--an essentially conservative policy. A true conservative policy.

To be sure, the Iron Law of Bureaucracy applies, to the extent that a bureaucracy will act to protect itself. But if it's also doing the job it was created to do, that's not a bad thing.

 

[pdudgeon]

What would be the difference between the normal, functioning apparatus of the state in any country, as in this article, and what people call ‘the deep state’?

one word: Allegiance.

As in "I pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States of America."

Deep State folks don't think that way any more. Their true allegiance is toward globalism, the United Nations, and folks with deep pockets whose agenda is to rule the World, not just one nation.

 

[Broken Fence]

Strange...

So much dialogue - little if any mention of the spiritual powers behind politics and how to deal with them.

"If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face... I will hear from heaven, forgive their sin, and heal their land....

Surely we see players in a spiritual power game that are unwittingly pawns in a late attempt to thwart the closing chapters of humanities wrestle with good and evil.

The end game is already won.

Best to concentrate on personally being in Him daily and leaving the bigger detail up to those who are called.

He is in control.

We are to know His rest.

Who knows what paths of blessing we will be led into if we prioritise daily walking with Him and surrendering to His purpose.

Very inspiring words.

 

[Broken Fence]

Some people have never met a “ conspiracy” that they did not like.....anything is possible in this Fallen world— Trump could be an alien being taking orders from the King Of Zodar ——Wild ideas made up by those with Wild imaginations need evidence and proof that what they are claiming has at least some semblance of reality. To be “ in on” something that others are unaware of can make some people feel special, perhaps even superior to others in the crowd—- I think that plays a large part in all conspiracy theories .

Interesting concept. Acceptance.

 

[Broken Fence]

You seem to be talking about the basic functional bureaucracy. But what makes you think they're making "political" decisions?

Having been a member of that bureaucracy myself for a quarter of a century, I'd say that the only "political policy" of the so-called "deep state" itself is a tendency to maintain the status quo--an essentially conservative policy. A true conservative policy.

To be sure, the Iron Law of Bureaucracy applies, to the extent that a bureaucracy will act to protect itself. But if it's also doing the job it was created to do, that's not a bad thing.

Thank you for sharing. Doing the job it was created to do. Very interesting.

 

[Broken Fence]

one word: Allegiance.

As in "I pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States of America."

Deep State folks don't think that way any more. Their true allegiance is toward globalism, the United Nations, and folks with deep pockets whose agenda is to rule the World, not just one nation.

As christians should we oppose them? Or let the situation play out? Thank you for sharing.

 

[Tom 1]

one word: Allegiance.

As in "I pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States of America."

Deep State folks don't think that way any more. Their true allegiance is toward globalism, the United Nations, and folks with deep pockets whose agenda is to rule the World, not just one nation.

What specifically leads you to believe that, and about who?

 

[RDKirk]

Deep State folks don't think that way any more. Their true allegiance is toward globalism, the United Nations, and folks with deep pockets whose agenda is to rule the World, not just one nation.

You think all the little folk working in the cubicles for the various departments are all globalists? How do you know that?

 

[A_Thinker]

Please no flaming. Please breath before you post. Can we have a loving conversation?

I am really considering not voting. First time in 20 years. I wonder how many other Americans feel this way?

Is there really a deep state? Do we really have all the facts? This is confusing?

"We are now in a full-blown national security crisis," Brennan said.


'The deep state is 100% true': Trump is launching an all-out assault on the US intelligence community

Think of government as business management.

Every now and then there are management changes ... and different priorities may arise for the business.

Some management directions will bring greater success ... and some will be detrimental.

All the while, hopefully, the business continues to function to preserve the capability of the business to produce marketable goods or services, ... while also supporting the business overhead.

When new managers appear on the scene, they have the opportunity to replace as much of the current business apparatus as they wish. BUT, typically, this has to be done gingerly, so as to not even temporarily disrupt the business' ability to function.

What some call the "deep state", is simply government's basic functioning. It needs to function, no matter who is currently at the helm, no matter what is going on in the country, during election cycles and not, in season and out of season, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, on and on.

You can think of it his way. The deep state is like "garbage collection". No matter who's in charge, that job still needs to be done.

Elections are just a way of selecting managers. Your duty is to select a good one. It's really that simple ...

 

[Broken Fence]

Think of government as a business management.

Every now and then there are management changes ... and different priorities may arise for the business.

Some management directions will bring greater success ... and some will be detrimental.

All the while, hopefully, the business continues to function to preserve the capability of the business to produce marketable goods or services, ... while also supporting the business overhead.

When new managers appear on the scene, they have the opportunity to replace as much of the current business apparatus as they wish. BUT, typically, this has to be done gingerly, so as to not even temporarily disrupt the business' ability to function.

What some call the "deep state", is simply government's basic functioning. It needs to function, no matter who is currently at the helm, no matter what is going on in the country, during election cycles and not, in season and out of season, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, on and on.

You can think of it his way. The deep state is like "garbage collection". No matter who's in charge, that job still needs to be done.

Elections are just a way of selecting managers. Your duty is to select a good one. It's really that simple ...

Thank you good analegy.

 

[RKO]

What would be the difference between the normal, functioning apparatus of the state in any country, as in this article, and what people call ‘the deep state’?

Great question. Has anybody noticed that in this discussion there is not a single source of fact based information or research? Rich people have more influence than I do, that is true. It this global cabal idea was introduced because Hillary Clinton had been in Washington for so long. It was Steve Bannon’s wildly successful spin that there was yet another boogie man for conspiracy theorists to believe in. Either produce some fact based evidence that such an internal worldwide organization exists, or chalk it up to more fear mongering, created to keep the right motivated and afraid.

 

[Albion]

That is so crazy. What are normal people to do then?

For one thing, do not respond by choosing not to vote. Doing that sends no message at all...unless it is that these people are too lazy or disinterested in issues of national concern to bother.

If you are convinced that both major parties are corrupt, off-course, or etc. vote THIRD PARTY at least, so that your vote registers as a protest against everything you tell us that you are opposed to.

In addition. casting such a vote says more than just this. It doesn't have to be the proverbial "wasted vote." If whichever third party you favor rises to the level of getting, say, a mere 4 or 5% of the total vote cast, that level often represents the difference between the winner and the loser of the two major parties. Even if both of them are unacceptable, your vote--and that third party's total vote--controls the outcome even if its own candidate isn't the winner.

 

[jgarden]

Please no flaming. Please breath before you post. Can we have a loving conversation?

I am really considering not voting. First time in 20 years. I wonder how many other Americans feel this way?

Is there really a deep state? Do we really have all the facts? This is confusing?

"We are now in a full-blown national security crisis," Brennan said.


'The deep state is 100% true': Trump is launching an all-out assault on the US intelligence community

I don’t believe in the tooth fairy, the Knights Templar, Bilderberg, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a vast right wing conspiracy, or, for that matter, a vast left wing conspiracy. Are there in the U.S. government individual bureaucrats that are Democratic holdovers that would love nothing more than to damage Trump? Yeah, of course there are. Is there a concealed web of conspirators, malevolent permanent hidden shadow government? Rubbish. And I would add that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone without the help of Ted Cruz’s father.
- Charles Krauthammer, conservative columnist, Washington Post

- term was originally coined to refer to a relatively invisible state apparatus in Turkey "composed of high-level elements within the intelligence services, military, security, judiciary, and organized crime" and similar alleged networks in other countries including Egypt, Ukraine, Spain, Colombia, Italy, Israel, and many others.

- Salon Magazine traces Donald Trump's belief in a Deep State to conspiracy theorist Alex Jones of Infowars, who, it says, "believes that the government – a.k.a. the "deep state" – has orchestrated attacks and events throughout history. This includes the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building, the massacre at Sandy Hook (he claims that many of the parents were actors), the Boston Marathon attack, and on and on," including believing that the 9/11 attack was "executed by the United States government."

- Trump's long-time ally, Roger Stone, was another influence. Stone has written several books which center on conspiracy theories, and blames Lyndon Johnson for the death of President John F. Kennedy, and alleges that Ted Cruz's father was involved in that assassination.

- Steve Bannon, Trump's former chief strategist, have both made allegations about a deep state which they believe is interfering with the president's agenda. In 2018, describing the deep state as an "entrenched bureaucracy", Trump accused the United States Department of Justice "of being part of the 'deep state'" in a statement advocating the prosecution of Huma Abedin. Some Trump allies and right-wing media outlets have alleged that former president Barack Obama is coordinating a deep state resistance to Trump.

Deep state in the United States - Wikipedia
*************************************************************************************************************
The concept of the "deep state" was thought to have originated in Turkey, but the term itself was coined by conspiracy theorist Alex Jones and later adopted by those in Donald Trump's "inner circle" of friends and advisers - Roger Stone and Steve Bannon!

Throughout history, authoritarian leaders with "narcissistic" personalities have had to invent their own versions of the "deep state" because they were incapable of taking the responsibility for faulty decisions!

 

[thecolorsblend]

Multiple divorces,

Boomers gonna Boomer.

multiple defaulted loans

The late 80's recession hit him too? Golly...

multiple infidelities

President Trump avoids vices of substance. Basically, he reminds me of what the punk rockers used to call "straight edge". But women are definitely his, ahem, weakness.

a never-ending litany of lies about pretty much anything and everything (this is the guy who used to call up news agencies pretending to be someone else to bad mouth his wife at the time)

Eh, I've got some ex's I'd rather never see again myself so I kind of understand. I don't approve but I understand.

close working ties with the mafia during the 80s

Heh. Do you have any idea what it took to do business in that town back in the 70's? It's nice to think that every business deal could involve only reputable sources. But New York was filled with all types of disreputable sources especially back in those days. When people bring this up as a negative, what that tells me is they don't understand how things worked in New York back then.

 

[Tom 1]

When people bring this up as a negative, what that tells me is they don't understand how things worked in New York back then.

True, that was all in the book about it also, others who did business at the time had the view that Trump was a this is great, jump in feet first approach rather than this is a necessary evil. Overall my own impression is that Trump knows when to play by the rules - when he is dealing with people who he either approves of as being similar to him or knows he may need/can harm him - but that he also appears to take great pleasure in dumping on anyone he can, because he can, anyone who for whatever reason can't do anything about it. There are plenty of examples of this from the horses mouth, as it were, no need to rely on media you don't like. Sure recessions hit people but not many people are so roundly distrusted by banks as Donald, and for good reason. There are plenty of reasons why he started banking with Deutsche bank, largely to do with the risk of taking on someone as unreliable in loan repayments (etc) as Trump. Things like multiple bankruptcies seem to not be seen as such a big deal over there, but here only a bank willing to take on huge risk to make fast money would make it possible for someone like Trump to continue in business. I assume you know about his fraudulent operations. There's a pretty long list of things/behaviours that I don't think anyone thinking soberly about it would consider 'normal', or acceptable, outside of his particular circle of friends. He made some good real estate deals early on, and his reality show (which he secured by managing to dupe Forbes about his actual net worth) was a success, there are some other things he hasn't run into the ground, but I think you need some heavy duty blinkers to not see the preponderance of negative qualities. The best possible outcome might be if his bull in a china shop approach leads to someone more competent coming in to put the pieces back together in a better way, but there doesn't seem to be anyone like that around in US politics at the moment.