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Is there really a 1000 year reign ?

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A Brother In Christ

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LittleLambofJesus said:
Be back where?
the tribulation the church is raptured and the Jews will be under law again
Without a Temple they are about like any other religion, no? Islam is gaining though and if they take over the whole European, African continents, including Israel, I will not be bothered much by it.
Christianity better "regroup" and become One really quick or Islam will continue growing and all religions will be in turmoin. Peace.
.
God will do what he said.... does not worry me


if some country nuclear bomb all the jews

God would resurrect some jews to fulfill his word.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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A Brother In Christ said:
the tribulation the church is raptured and the Jews will be under law again

God will do what he said.... does not worry me


if some country nuclear bomb all the jews

God would resurrect some jews to fulfill his word.
Just jews or non-jew Israelites [that could even include Palistinians and Arabs?]

You appear to be confused on the 2 nations of Israel and Judah [jews] Peace.
 
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A Brother In Christ

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LittleLambofJesus said:
Just jews or non-jew Israelites [that could even include Palistinians and Arabs?]

You appear to be confused on the 2 nations of Israel and Judah [jews] Peace.


Did God seperate them as nation or did they?

God in 1 cor 10:32 states Jews...all one nation


not confused at all
 
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MattHenry

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Like futurism and dispensationalism perhaps a good question would be where and/or when does the doctrine of the millennial reign come from?

Pasted with permission of the author Ellis Skolfield.
http://www.ellisskolfield.com/index.shtml

JEAN DE LABIDE

Since part of the 20th Chapter of Revelation appears to be literal, a Dutch Reformed theologian, Jean de Labadie, concluded back in 1640 that Jesus would return to rule over the earthly kingdoms of men for 1000 years at the end of the Christian Era. This "millennium," as it is now called, was then to be followed by another Armageddon, Rev 20:8, after which we would have the great white throne, and eventually the saints would enter into the Eternal Kingdom of God. Jean de Labadie's millennial theory fit perfectly with the Lacunza, Darby, Macdonald,

Scofield pre-trib rapture scheme of things, so the Dispensationals added pre-millennialism to their body of doctrine. However, the Church of de Labadie's own day considered his view heretical and the Dutch brethren tossed de Labadie out of the church. Here is why:

Rev 20:2 is the only supposed support for the pre-millennial view in the whole Bible, and it only works then if you interpret ONLY ONE verse literally in a book most serious eschatologists understand to be primarily figurative. Even to arrive at that view, de Labadie had to ignore two universally accepted rules of Bible interpretation:

1. No scripture should be interpreted apart from its context. As already stated, most of Revelation is figurative and there is no textual reason to believe that Rev 20 should be interpreted differently than its context.

2. A word study should be done in the original language to be sure that the passage is correctly understood. The Greek word translated "thousand" in Rev 20:2 (and throughout the rest of chapter), is chilioi (Strong's No. 5507). Chilioi is an indefinite plural, and may not mean just one thousand. It could mean one thousand, but it could also mean many thousands.

INDEFINITE PLURAL

That is the point, chilioi is an indefinite plural. It seems Pre-millennialists base one of their definite doctrines on a very indefinite plural. Even though the translation of chilioi as one thousand is technically correct, if we insist on it meaning only 1000 years, then the sense of the passage could be lost.

A figurative interpretation of Rev 20 is not as wild as one might think. Most of the Church considered Rev 20 to be figurative until de Labadie came along. Since it is scripturally provable that the saints reign with Christ, in His spiritual kingdom right this instant, and that we have done so throughout the Christian Era (Eph 1:3, 1Pe 2:9, Rev 1:6, Rev 5:10), then this "thousand" year reign of Christ could be a pictorial representation of the whole Christian Era.

RULING WITH THE LORD

Besides the last trumpet itself, there are other verses that call the premillennial view into question. According to premillennialism, when Jesus returns for His 1000-year reign, He will rule from Jerusalem in all His power and glory. During that 1000 years, we (the saints) are presumed to be ruling with Him in our new glorified and sinless bodies. At the end of the 1000 years, Satan is somehow supposed to deceive the rulers (now sinless us) for a short season. If that were to happen we would again be in sin, which would result in our again being separated from the Lord. That is contrary to 1TH 4:17, which clearly states:

1TH 4:17 "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up...to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall ever be with the Lord." Saints will never again be separated from the Lord!

WHO'S THE STRONG MAN ?

MAT 12:29 "How can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property, unless He first binds the strong man?"

When Jesus asked that question, He was in the act of casting out demons. The Lord was plundering Satan's house then, and He is still doing so today through the church. Now Jesus permitted Himself to be bound once, at the Cross, but it will never happen again. When Jesus returns to Jerusalem, He will be ruling in all His power and glory. It will be Jesus' kingdom. He will be the "strong man"! Released or not, Satan could only plunder Jesus' kingdom if he could again bind Jesus. Laughable. Jesus is now seated at the right hand of God the Father. He is King of kings and Lord of lords, forever!

Eph 1:20-21 declares, "...when He raised Him from the dead, and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come." That age to come would have to include any future time that Jesus is on Earth, and beyond. No future time of lost power for the Lord. When the Lord returns at the end of this age, He will rule absolutely...and eternally!


IT'S ABOUT DOMAIN

God gave the Earth to Adam. Adam was made the ruler of the Earth and all that it contained (Gen 1:28). When Adam fell, he delivered his God-given authority into Satan's hands (Luk 4:6). All mankind then became Satan's legal possession. When scripture says "we were bought with a price," that was not just some theoretical acquisition. We were purchased from Satan's kingdom by Jesus' precious blood. When we accept Jesus as our personal Savior, by a sovereign act, God the Father transfers us "out of the domain (kingdom, NASB) of darkness into the kingdom of His dear Son" (Col 1:13). If you are looking for the kingdom age, there it is, right where the Bible has been saying it was all along. The kingdom of the Lord Jesus has existed ever since Act 2:33-36.

At the end of this age, Jesus will indeed return to Earth with His Holy angels and all His "holy ones" (all in their glorified bodies). That's us, with all the saints who have gone before us, all of whom who went to be with Him at the last trumpet (1Co 15:52).

Rev 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded (the last trumpet) and there arose loud voices in heaven, saying, 'The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.' " Not for just for 1000 years, but forever!

TWO RESTORATIONS


As the end approaches, things are going to deteriorate in a hurry. If we are to walk in truth, we must guard ourselves against interpreting Scripture to fit our preconceived notions, for "The Lord takes no delight in fools" (Ecc 5:4). Insisting on a literal interpretation of a figurative passage may display our orthodoxy before men, but rob us of what the Lord would have us learn from Scripture. The premillennial interpretation of Isa 11:6-10 is a glaring example of the "literal hermeneutic" carried to the point of absurdity.

Isaiah 11:1-5 has many allegorical elements: "A shoot [or branch] springs from the stem of Jesse . . . a branch from his root will bear fruit . . . He will judge with the rod of His mouth . . . righteousness will be the belt about His loins and faithfulness the belt about his waist," etc., etc. All those expressions are obviously figurative, and all conservative Bible scholars understand this passage to be a pictorial description of the Messiah to be born several hundred years in the future. This prophecy was fulfilled during Jesus' life on Earth, by 32-33AD.

Now, the first time the Jews were driven off their land was when Nebuchadnezzar exiled them to Babylon. The restoration after the Babylonian captivity was the FIRST restoration of the Jews to the Holy Land. By the time of the crucifixion, the Jews had been restored from the captivity and living in the Holy Land for 568 years. Now lets skip verses 6-10 and go to verse11. There we read that the Lord will restore his people to the Holy Land for "a second time!"

Isa 11:11 "Then it will happen on that day that the Lord Will again recover the SECOND TIME with His hand the remnant of His people."

Thirty-seven years after Jesus was crucified, in 70AD, the Jews were dispersed for a second time into the nations, so the second restoration would have to take place after that. And it did. The second restoration took place in the new nation of Israel, established in 1948AD. In that year, after almost 1900 years among the Gentiles, the Jews were restored to the Holy Land . . . FOR A SECOND TIME! Now look at the chronology:

Isa 11:1-5 About the coming Messiah 32AD

Isa 11:6-10 About when? ????AD

Isa 11:11 About the 2nd restoration 1948AD

Well, if Isa 11, verses 1-5 are about Jesus' life on Earth, and verse 11 can be positively pinned to 1948, to what time do you suppose the verses in between refer? Well, because of context, verses 6-10 would have to refer to the time in between Jesus' life on Earth and 1948, wouldn't they? The only contextually sound way to look at Isa 11:6-10 is figuratively, as a picture of the Christian Era.

Now Premillennialists recognize the figurative elements in Isa 11:1-5: the branch, the root, the fruit, the belt, the breath, and so on. Those common figures are understood by all. No one really expects a literal branch, with leaves and all, to spring out of the forehead of David's father. All theologians recognize this passage as teaching that one of Jesse's descendants will be the Messiah. It is figurative, and they all know it.

But when they read on a couple of verses, and see a lion eating straw, some say: "Ah, that must be literal, and since it hasn't happened yet, it must be going to take place in the millennium. And there is more support for our pre-millennial view." They further pontificate that during the millennium, a "nursing child will really play by the hole of the cobra," and "the leopard will really lie down with the kid," etc., thus doing away with God's natural law. Anything is possible with the Lord, of course, but a literal interpretation of those verses is certainly not their most probable meaning.

Many well-known Bible teachers are famous for accepting figurative interpretations for the figurative language they understand, while demanding a literal interpretation for the figurative language they don't . . . all the while, heralding their orthodoxy by broadcasting their faith in a "literal hermeneutic." But if the passage in question is figurative, a "literal hermeneutic" will not lead anyone to truth. The literal or figurative nature of a Scripture is not determined by the reader, but by the author, and some Scriptures cannot be recognized as literal or figurative unless the principles of hermeneutics are applied without doctrinal bias.

Interestingly enough, many Evangelical groups, including major Evangelical Bible colleges, use the pre-millennial view as a litmus test for orthodoxy. One Christian publisher even trumpets proudly that all of its publications are pre-millennial, as if a differing view on the millennium were mortal sin. But despite its popularity, the weight of scriptural evidence appears to be against the pre-millennial view. It will be interesting to see if the Holy Spirit can quicken the Church to the possibility that it is once again standing dogmatically . . . on false doctrine.

CONTINUED NEXT POST
 
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MattHenry

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BUT IS THIS TRUTH IMPORTANT ?

Some ask: "Does it really matter what we believe about the
millennium? Isn't soul-winning where it's at?" Then making a steeple of
their hands and with their eyes cast heavenwards, they add, "Won't we
all end up in Heaven together, anyway?" That kind of unctuous platitude
just slays me. The idea that any truth is unimportant is of the devil.
It ignores the spiritual nature of the Christian's battle and the
shrewdness of the enemy. Spiritual warfare is a never-ending battle for
truth. As the father of lies, Satan is the author of every heresy that
gets into the Church. Every false doctrine we believe or teach (no
matter how minor it may seem to us) helps the enemy and weakens our
witness.
But how can pre-millennialism hurt anyone? In the same way the
pre-tribulation rapture myth can hurt. By rocking the Church to sleep
with the sweet lullaby of "Judgment deferred," with the siren song that
"hard times may be coming, but they're coming for the lost during the
Great Tribulation, while we, the Church (because of our great piety and
holiness), will be at the marriage supper of the Lamb, and later,
ruling with Jesus in His wonderful millennial kingdom."
Nothing could be further from the truth! We were appointed as Jesus'
spiritual priests and kings for this present age to despoil the domain
of the enemy. Every time a saint leads a sinner to the Lord, he is
breaking into Satan's house, and carrying off his goods (Mat 12:29).
Through the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as affirmed by the blood of the
martyrs and the prayers of the saints, the enemy was bound throughout
this age, "that he might not deceive the nations."
And he didn't. The whole western world once recognized Jesus as the
Christ and that knowledge changed the world, but not any longer. Now
the world is changing the Church. Why now? Hasn't sin always been bad
and hasn't Satan has always been the father of sin? Of course, but in
this generation, the individual saint has forgotten his responsibility
for the lost:
Eze 3:18 "When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou
givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked
way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity;
but his blood will I require at thine hand."
The world is in the condition it is today because we have not done our
job. And just as Scripture warned, Satan has been loosed upon us . . .
Rev 20:7-8 "And when the thousand years are completed, Satan will be
released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations
which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather
them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the
seashore."
Jesus bound the enemy at the cross (John 12:32) and gave the Church the
keys:
Mat 16:19 "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and
whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever
you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
But the lukewarm Laodicean church of our own day has again set Satan
free. Look at the disgraceful spiritual conditions that have enveloped
America during the last three decades. We Christians are responsible --
we are Jesus' kings and priests -- and if we really understand we are
responsible, then we get busy serving the Lord so we will "not be
ashamed at His coming." If we really believe that "judgment begins at
the household of God," then we "work out our own salvation in fear and
trembling," in godly fear of those trials "which are coming upon the
earth":
Rev 12:11-12 "And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb
and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their
life even to death. For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who
dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come
down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short
time."
However, if we believe judgment is for the other guy, after we've been
raptured out, or believe that judgment is still a thousand years away,
ah, that's a different story. Then we can dabble in the materialistic
world for a while, repenting when we see the Antichrist coming or when
the Great Tribulation begins. Meanwhile, to show our pro-life
conservatism, we can lie down in front of an abortion clinic or two
while our lost friends and neighbors go to Hell because we did not tell
them, that in God's pure eyes, we are all monsters of iniquity, in
desperate need of the cleansing blood of His beloved Son.
 
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inhisdebt

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All that being said there still Is several problems with these amillinial views being presented here the first is this, Gen 15v18 remains to be fullfilled.
Gen 15v18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: (nice to be adopted into the seed of abraham)
This has not been completed because at no time has israel ruled over all this land. So the 1000 year reign is a must happen. This is the hazard of choosing the alligorical view over the literal, as i mentened in other posts. You can totally dicount large portions of scripture simply by calling it a metephor for something else. Ezekials temple also remains to be seen as does the healing of the dead sea. these things will be fullfilled by the return of the lord and the establishment of Gods kindom on earth, for the thousand year reign, and oh its not temporal as Christ turns the kingdom over God at the end of the thousand year reign.

1 cor 15 v 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Rev 20v4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, and shall reign with him a thousand years. but they shall be priests of God and of Christ,
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 21v1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away

Oh buy the way, if you ask around you will find that my views are not pre-tribulational, only premillinial.
And while i disagree with matt henry on some issues i share many of them as well, just not this one or his position on the 2 witnesses
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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A Brother In Christ said:
hebrews 6:18 That by two immutable things in which it was impossible for God to lie...

1 thes 5:25 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

read your context in luke ...

time of the gentiles fulfilled then Jews will be back....!
You mean all of the original 12 hebrews tribes in including the jews?
I thought the jews wouldn't be ruling Israel anymore :eek: Will they still be called jews or Israelites? Thanks.

Matthew 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you [jews] and given to a nation [Israelites?] bearing the fruits of it.
 
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A Brother In Christ

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LittleLambofJesus said:
You mean all of the original 12 hebrews tribes in including the jews?
I thought the jews wouldn't be ruling Israel anymore :eek: Will they still be called jews or Israelites? Thanks.

Matthew 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you [jews]and given to a nation [Israelites?] bearing the fruits of it.

kingdom of God ... Luke 17:20 cometh not with observation...21 kingdom of God is within you...

this is salvation

given to a nation? 1 peter 2:9 -10 ,eph 2:11-12

OT priest were from the tribe of levi and the family of aaron and they did blood sacrifices

NT are anyone who believes the gospel and they do living sacrifices ..romans 12:1
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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You mean all of the original 12 hebrews tribes in including the jews?
I thought the jews wouldn't be ruling Israel anymore :eek: Will they still be called jews or Israelites? Thanks.

Matthew 21:43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you [jews]and given to a nation [Israelites?] bearing the fruits of it.
A Brother In Christ said:
kingdom of God ... Luke 17:20 cometh not with observation...21 kingdom of God is within you...
this is salvation
given to a nation? 1 peter 2:9 -10 ,eph 2:11-12
OT priest were from the tribe of levi and the family of aaron and they did blood sacrifices

NT are anyone who believes the gospel and they do living sacrifices ..romans 12:1
So you are saying God is going to allow that again after alread destroying it?

Matt 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 38 "See! Your house is left to you a Wilderness;
 
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A Brother In Christ

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LittleLambofJesus said:
So you are saying God is going to allow that again after alread destroying it?
what? priest? 1 peter 2:9-10
Matt 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 38 "See! Your house is left to you a Wilderness;
??? what? do not understand
 
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MbiaJc

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Is there really a 1000 year reign ?

Does Christ come to set up a temporal kingdom? Apart from all the scriptures which state otherwise whereby Christ states his kingdom is ETERNAL . Study the following....

Heaven and earth destroyed upon Christ's return

2pe 3:10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

This destruction is immediate and thus the replacement must be immediate thus no earth nor heaven would exsist during a supposed 1000 year. In addition, if you agree that there is a new heaven and new earth for the 1000 years then you are saying that destruction to the old earth and heaven happens twice or that it happens a 1000 years later but scripture does not back this.

Mt 16:28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.


Christ returns on the last day of this earth as we know it. Which is at the seventh trumpet.
Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. V:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.



Satan destroyed upon Christ's return

2th 2:8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:2th 2:9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Best regards,
We see both Satan (the Wicked) and his son of perdition both destroyed upon Christ's return so how can this happen 1000 years later.?

Satin is not destroyed at Christ return, only the beast and false prophet are. Satan is bound and placed in the bottomless pit for 1000yr..


Death is destroyed upon the return of Christ.

1co 15:23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.1co 15:24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.1co 15:25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.1co 15:26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Christ currently reigns on the right hand and upon his returns he will destroy death itself hence there will nor can there be death any longer during a so-called 1000 years.

The second resurrection does not take place till the end of the 1000yr reign. Only the beheaded ones are raised to live and reign with Christ at the first resurrection.


Christ reigns till after we enter the New Heaven, earth and New Jerusalem, which is after the 1000yr reign of Christ. Then is saying is brought to pass “death is swallowed up in victory”.

1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The resurrection of both believer and the ungodly occur on the same day.

Joh 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Re 11:18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Again the resurrection of all occurs with in the same time frame and not 1000 years apart. A futher study also shows that all appear at the Great White Throne, the believers (small and great) and those dead which come up from the sea.

Study the events in chapter 20 closely and you should notice a inkling that these events have happened previously.
The first and second resurrection is 1000yr apart. However only the beheaded ones are raised at the first resurrection.

Yes! The second (or general) resurrection occur on the last day
, all in the graves are brought forth some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting torment.
Rev. 19-20 give the order of advents.

Satan is cast into and ascends out from the pit prior to the 1000 years
Rev 12:9,12 - “and that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast into the earth. (v.12)…..woe unto the inhibitors of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 17:8,10 - “the beast which thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition…..and when he cometh, he must continue for a short space”.
Rev 11:7 - “and when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascended out of the bottomless pit…..”


Not so! Satin was cast out of heaven to earth, was bound and put in the bottomless pit at the end of the great tribulation, not to be released till the end of the 1000yr reign.
The beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit is the anti-christ, not satin.

Satan is loosed for a little season prior to the 1000 years
Rev 6:11 - “and white robes were given unto everyone of them, that they should rest for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that they should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled”.

Rev 12:12 - “…..for the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time”.
Rev 17:10 - “…..and when he cometh, he must continue a short space”.

Also, this would mean that the 1000 year reign would actually be 1000 plus as Satan is loosened after a 1000 years? Ops! How long is this "little season" supposed to be after the 1000 years ?



Not so! He is loosed for a little season at or near the end of the 1000yr reign.

Rev. 12:12 is when satin is kicked out of heaven by Michael.
Rev. 17:10 is talking about when the ac comes out of the bottomless pit.

Gog and Ma’-Gog gathered to battle prior to the 1000 years

Ezek 38:16-22 - “and thou shall come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land: it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, o Gog, before their eyes…..(v.18) and it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, that my fury shall come up in my face…..(v.20)…..and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. (v.22)…..and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone”.

Furthermore, there can be no battle during a supposed 1000 years.....

Mic 4:3And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.



Gog and Ma-gog gathers all nations to battle at the end of the 1000yr. You have latter days highlighted, don’t you know that is talking about the end. Rev 19 & 20 makes it plain when all this will happen.


Went up on the breadth of the earth prior to the 1000 years

If one ponders this phrase “and they went up on the breadth of the earth”, one understands that something or someone must come from beneath the earth! But how can this be? Here underlies a great mystery, Satan's main weapon of attack; to indwell mankind with demonic spirits for his will. This same tactic was used prior to the flood, and we know what God did to the earth after that; he destroyed it! Lets look into detail of this demonic assault prior to Christ appearing.

Rev 9:2 - “and he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit”.

Here we see the bottomless pit opened allowing them to come up on the breadth of the earth.

Rev 9:3 - “and there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as scorpions of the earth have power”.

First thing to understand is that locusts (the species) comes from beneath the earth when they come into being. Second, these are no ordinary locusts, they have power like scorpions and in Luke 10:17-20 we read;

“and the seventy returned again with joy, saying even the devils are subject unto us though thy name. And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you…..”

These locusts are demonic spirits; devils!

Rev 16:13,14 -“and I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and to the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God almighty”.


Rev. 9:2 is when the ac is released from the bottomless pit.
Rev. 9:3 in no way implies they are demons. They are locusts with the sting of a scorpion, nothing more nothing less.

Rev. 16:13-14 are the spirits of devils.

Fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them prior to the 1000 years
This in Rev 20:9 is none other than his return, the second coming of Christ!!!


Not so! Rev. 20:9 is the war of Gog and Maygog which takes place at the end of the 1000yr. If you would back up to v7 you would see that it is after not before.


Revelation chapter 20 is rehash of prior events. These events will not happen twice.
1000 years is being used as a metaphor as should not be taken literal
Christ will come and set up an everlasting not temporal kingdom.

Not so! Rev. 19-20 is the order in which the events take place.
There will be a 1000yr literal reign of Jesus Christ here on this earth.


Yes Christ has set up a everlasting kingdom here on earth, it started on the day of Pentecost and will go right into the 1000yr to the New heaven, earth and New Jerusalem, into everlasting.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Is there really a 1000 year reign ?

Does Christ come to set up a temporal kingdom? Apart from all the scriptures which state otherwise whereby Christ states his kingdom is ETERNAL . Study the following....

Heaven and earth destroyed upon Christ's return

2pe 3:10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

This destruction is immediate and thus the replacement must be immediate thus no earth nor heaven would exsist during a supposed 1000 year. In addition, if you agree that there is a new heaven and new earth for the 1000 years then you are saying that destruction to the old earth and heaven happens twice or that it happens a 1000 years later but scripture does not back this.

Mt 16:28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
The poor world has to go through 2 Day of the Lord's. That is of course unscriptural, like saying the Olivet Discourse happens 2 or 3 times and Daniel 12 happens 2 or 3 times.

The jews can't even comprehend 2 comings of their messiah, much less more than 3 or 4 of them. Oh woe is us!!!!

Luke 21:22 "For these are the Days of Vengeance, that ALL Things which are Written may be Fulfilled.

1 Peter 4:7 But the End of ALL things is at hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers.
 
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jckstraw72

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the millenial reign was declared as heresy at the Council of Constantinople in 381. The Creed says "He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, Who's kingdom SHALL HAVE NO END" for the purpose of condemning the millenial reign heresy.

The millenial reign is symbolic of right now--the age of the Church.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The poor world has to go through 2 Day of the Lord's. That is of course unscriptural, like saying the Olivet Discourse happens 2 or 3 times and Daniel 12 happens 2 or 3 times.

The jews can't even comprehend 2 comings of their messiah, much less more than 3 or 4 of them. Oh woe is us!!!!

Luke 21:22 "For these are the Days of Vengeance, that ALL Things which are Written may be Fulfilled.

1 Peter 4:7 But the End of ALL things is at hand; therefore be serious and watchful in your prayers.
jckstraw72 said:
the millenial reign was declared as heresy at the Council of Constantinople in 381. The Creed says "He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, Who's kingdom SHALL HAVE NO END" for the purpose of condemning the millenial reign heresy.

The millenial reign is symbolic of right now--the age of the Church.
:eek:
 
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FreeinChrist

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jckstraw72 said:
the millenial reign was declared as heresy at the Council of Constantinople in 381. The Creed says "He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, Who's kingdom SHALL HAVE NO END" for the purpose of condemning the millenial reign heresy.

The millenial reign is symbolic of right now--the age of the Church.

Actually, I have read through the canons from the Council of Constantinople of 381, and no, it wan't declared a heresy at all.

This is a good read, though it focuses on the claim that it was condemned in 431. From what I have read of the canons, no council condemned it:
http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=2489
 
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jckstraw72

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otay, well perhaps i was misinformed about the council, not sure, but check out this page if you want http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/ec_thousandyearreign.aspx

i was just thinking--perhaps what the person meant that i heard that from, was that that line in the Creed was added in 381, and not that it was formally declared a heresy

.....although several sources i just looked at siad it was condemned in 381
 
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MbiaJc

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jckstraw72 said:
otay, well perhaps i was misinformed about the council, not sure, but check out this page if you want http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/ec_thousandyearreign.aspx

i was just thinking--perhaps what the person meant that i heard that from, was that that line in the Creed was added in 381, and not that it was formally declared a heresy

.....although several sources i just looked at siad it was condemned in 381

What it seems you fail to realize, it doesn't matter what some council did or didn't do. Rev. 20 is plain enough a child can understand that there is a millennial reign of Christ.
 
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jckstraw72

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What it seems you fail to realize, it doesn't matter what some council did or didn't do. Rev. 20 is plain enough a child can understand that there is a millennial reign of Christ.

well it seems many children and adults, within Orthodoxy, Catholicism, and Protestantism disagree with you. To say that Revelation is "plain enough" is just crazy. The book is full of symbolism that not even John fully understood.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The 1000yrs is simply the time, times and half a time of Daniel's 70 weeks. There is no gap and no literal bodily reign of Christ and the end of the OC Jewish Nation and Consummation of the NC. After that it is over.

Daniel 9:24 70 7's, he is decreeing [#2852] on your people and on a city of a holy of you, to shut up[#03607] the transgression[#06588] and finish[#08552] sealing[#02856] up sin["02403] and to atone/cover[#03722] over iniquity[#05771] and come into/enter[#0395] in righteousness[#06664] of eons[#05769] and to seal up[#02856] vision[#02377] and prophet[#05030] and to annoint[#04886] holy[#06944] holy ones[#06944] .

Matt 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 38 "See! Your house is left to you a Wilderness;

Revelation 11:1:And given to me a reed like unto [a] staff saying: Be Ye Arousing!!!!! and Measure Ye!!!!! the Sanctuary/Naos of the God, and the Altar and the Ones worshipping in it/him ! 2 And the Court [#833], the one within[#2081] the Sanctuary/Naos [#3485] be Casting- Out!!!!! [#1544] Out-side [#1854] and ye should not be measuring it/her, because she was given to the nations/gentiles, and the city, the holy, they shall be treading [#3961] for 40 and 2 months.
 
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jckstraw72 said:
otay, well perhaps i was misinformed about the council, not sure, but check out this page if you want http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/ec_thousandyearreign.aspx

i was just thinking--perhaps what the person meant that i heard that from, was that that line in the Creed was added in 381, and not that it was formally declared a heresy

.....although several sources i just looked at siad it was condemned in 381

Yes there are sources to say it was condemned - but they are all relying on secondary sources as opposed to primary sources. Most of those secondary sources are modern. I haven't found condemnation in the canons of any council, though.
And the premillennialist veiw is that the earthly reign is 1000 years, but that Christ continues to reign forever and ever from the New Jerusalem, which does not conflict with that one line.
 
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