Is there really a 1000 year reign ?

[ross3421]

Does Christ come to set up a temporal kingdom? Apart from all the scriptures which state otherwise whereby Christ states his kingdom is ETERNAL . Study the following....

Heaven and earth destroyed upon Christ's return

2pe 3:10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.



This destruction is immediate and thus the replacement must be immediate thus no earth nor heaven would exsist during a supposed 1000 year. In addition, if you agree that there is a new heaven and new earth for the 1000 years then you are saying that destruction to the old earth and heaven happens twice or that it happens a 1000 years later but scripture does not back this.

Mt 16:28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Satan destroyed upon Christ's return

2th 2:8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:2th 2:9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

We see both Satan (the Wicked) and his son of perdition both destroyed upon Christ's return so how can this happen 1000 years later.?


Death is destroyed upon the return of Christ.

1co 15:23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.1co 15:24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.1co 15:25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.1co 15:26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Christ currently reigns on the right hand and upon his returns he will destroy death itself hence there will nor can there be death any longer during a so-called 1000 years.

The resurrection of both believer and the ungodly occur on the same day.

Joh 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Re 11:18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Again the resurrection of all occurs with in the same time frame and not 1000 years apart. A futher study also shows that all appear at the Great White Throne, the believers (small and great) and those dead which come up from the sea.

Study the events in chapter 20 closely and you should notice a inkling that these events have happened previously.





Satan is cast into and ascends out from the pit prior to the 1000 years


Rev 12:9,12 - “and that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast into the earth. (v.12)…..woe unto the inhibitors of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


Rev 17:8,10 - “the beast which thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition…..and when he cometh, he must continue for a short space”.


Rev 11:7 - “and when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit…..”


Satan is loosed for a little season prior to the 1000 years


Rev 6:11 - “and white robes were given unto everyone of them, that they should rest for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that they should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled”.



Rev 12:12 - “…..for the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time”.


Rev 17:10 - “…..and when he cometh, he must continue a short space”.


Also, this would mean that the 1000 year reign would actually be 1000 plus as Satan is loosened after a 1000 years? Ops! How long is this "little season" supposed to be after the 1000 years ?


Gog and Ma’-Gog gathered to battle prior to the 1000 years


Ezek 38:16-22 - “and thou shall come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land: it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, o Gog, before their eyes…..(v.18) and it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, that my fury shall come up in my face…..(v.20)…..and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. (v.22)…..and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone”.

Furthermore, there can be no battle during a supposed 1000 years.....

Mic 4:3And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.


Went up on the breadth of the earth prior to the 1000 years


If one ponders this phrase “and they went up on the breadth of the earth”, one understands that something or someone must come from beneath the earth! But how can this be? Here underlies a great mystery, Satan's main weapon of attack; to indwell mankind with demonic spirits for his will. This same tactic was used prior to the flood, and we know what God did to the earth after that; he destroyed it! Lets look into detail of this demonic assault prior to Christ appearing.


Rev 9:2 - “and he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit”.


Here we see the bottomless pit opened allowing them to come up on the breadth of the earth.


Rev 9:3 - “and there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as scorpions of the earth have power”.


First thing to understand is that locusts (the species) comes from beneath the earth when they come into being. Second, these are no ordinary locusts, they have power like scorpions and in Luke 10:17-20 we read;


“and the seventy returned again with joy, saying even the devils are subject unto us though thy name. And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you…..”


These locusts are demonic spirits; devils!


Rev 16:13,14 -“and I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and to the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God almighty”.


Fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them prior to the 1000 years


This in Rev 20:9 is none other than his return, the second coming of Christ!!!



Revelation chapter 20 is rehash of prior events. These events will not happen twice.


1000 years is being used as a metaphor as should not be taken literal


Christ will come and set up an everlasting not temporal kingdom.



In Christ, Mark.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Some believe that the new heaven and new earth isn't going to be brand new, as in a totally different planet but that the earth, after being destroyed will then be made new.

It's like totalling your car out. You crashed it and it is totally destroyed, worthless. You then take it to the mechanic and body shop and they work on it and make it new again. The new used in that scripture is seen as meaning, new to us. I can go down to a used car lot and buy a car and tell everyone I just bought a new car. It's new to me but it isn't brand new.

After Jesus comes back he will repair and fashion the earth so that it will be totally new to us but the materials will still be of the old earth.

Ecclesiastes 1:4, One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth forever.

 

[James1979]

nephilimiyr,

Jesus never said that he will repair and fashion the earth. That's simply adding to the word of God that is never spoken by God. God just says that he will destroy this present earth/heaven with fire and will create a new heavens and a new earth. When God created this earth and the current heavens that exist now, what did God use to make the earth and heavens come into existence? God just spoke and it appeared.


2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent
heat?

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isa 66:22 For as thenew heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

God never mentions anything about the old materials, the present world is cursed, why would God use some of the cursed material of this earth where righteousness will be dwelling forevermore?

 

[ShirleyFord]

Christ will come and set up an everlasting not temporal kingdom.


In Christ, Mark.

Hi Mark,

Christ has already set up His everlasting kingdom. He was given His kingdom after His Resurrection, at His Ascension back into Heaven.

In Peter's first recorded sermon at Penticost, he declared,

Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:29-36)

The millennium began when Jesus ascended into Heaven after His Resurrection and He received His kingdom which God had promised to David, which was an everlasting kingdom. According to this Scripture then, when Jesus received His everlasting kingdom, He ascended to David's throne. As Peter declared, the outpouring of the Spirit as prophecied by the prophet Joel, was proof that Jesus had inherited David's kingdom and had ascended David's throne.

There is not one Scripture I can find that says that Jesus will be given an physical kingdom, headquarted in earthly Jerusalem over in the Middle East where He will reign for 1000 years after His Return.

Blessings,

Shirley

 

[nephilimiyr]

nephilimiyr,

Jesus never said that he will repair and fashion the earth. That's simply adding to the word of God that is never spoken by God.

I never claimed this is what Jesus said, that is my understanding of what he said though.

God just says that he will destroy this present earth/heaven with fire and will create a new heavens and a new earth.

Sorry but God never says that the earth will totally be destroyed to the point that none of it will remain. To claim this is what he said is you adding to what was written. Please read the Ecc. passage I posted, "abideth forever" means "abideth forever".

Now this is what you claim God has said but even in the passages you posted it doesn't show that that is what God said. Your belief is that that is what God says. That is your understanding of what God said.

For instance the Isa. 65:17 passage uses the Hebrew word "bara". The meaning of which is to create, shape, form. To shape and form like a potter shapes and forms clay into a pot on a spinning wheel. The idea is that the materials are already there, they just need shapeing and forming into a finished work.

When God created this earth and the current heavens that exist now, what did God use to make the earth and heavens come into existence? God just spoke and it appeared.

Right, He brought the heavens and earth into existance from nothing by His word. But all the passages you posted show a distinction between bringing into existance from nothing to makeing something from something. What God creates he creates from nothing, what God makes he has made out of something that has already existed.

 

[nephilimiyr]

ShirlyFord, is Jesus going to come again?

 

[FreeinChrist]

Does Christ reign on this earth for 1000 years?

First, it would be impossible due to the fact that this old heaven and earth are destroyed upon his second coming and will be replaced by a new heaven and earth. This destruction is immediate and thus the replacement must be immediate thus no earth nor heaven would exsist during a supposed 1000 year. In addition, if you agree that there is a new heaven and new earth for the 1000 years then you are saying that destruction to the old earth and heaven happens twice? um.

No, heaven and earth are not destroyed at his Second Coming but at the end of His Second Advent - the 1000 years. The entire Second coming, and 100 years are the Day of the Lord.

A closer study of Rev. chapter 20 should bring in question of a literal 1000 year temporal reign of Christ on this earth due to the fact that the events described in verses 1-19 have already occurred prior to the end of the tribulation period. Do they happen twice?

No actually they don't occurred prior to the end of the tribulation.

Satan is cast into and ascends out from the pit prior to the 1000 years


Rev 12:9,12 - “and that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast into the earth. (v.12)…..woe unto the inhibitors of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

That verse doesn't support your contention at all! Rev. 12 is telling about Satan being thrown down to the earth...not coming out of the pit. And it isn't showing him goinginto the pit until Rev. 20 - AFTER the Second Coming.

Rev 17:8,10 - “the beast which thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition…..and when he cometh, he must continue for a short space”.

Rev 11:7 - “and when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit…..”

This refers to the Antichrist - not Satan, though the AC gets his power from Satan.

Satan is loosed for a little season prior to the 1000 years

He has never been in the pit.

Your post doesn't make sense to me.



Rev 6:11 - “and white robes were given unto everyone of them, that they should rest for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that they should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled”.
and...?



Rev 12:12 - “…..for the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time”.
? - this isn't going into the pit or coming out of it.


Rev 17:10 - “…..and when he cometh, he must continue a short space”.
Who, though....


[qote]Also, this would mean that the 1000 year reign would actually be 1000 plus as Satan is loosened after a 1000 years? Ops! How long is this "little season" supposed to be after the 1000 years ?[/quote]

Doesn't matter... and the forces of Satan after the 1000 years are destroyed by fire from heaven and not by the Second Coming and the by the appearance of the the Lord.

Gog and Ma’-Gog gathered to battle prior to the 1000 years


Ezek 38:16-22 - “and thou shall come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land: it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, o Gog, before their eyes…..(v.18) and it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, that my fury shall come up in my face…..(v.20)…..and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. (v.22)…..and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone”.

Possibly...but that does not preclude a "Gog and Magog" after the 1000 years.

Revelation chapter 20 is rehash of prior events.

No, it isn't. Rev. 20 describes the events AFTER the Second Coming:
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

Rev 19:20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.

Rev 19:21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.Rev 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

Rev 20:3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut {it} and sealed {it} over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I {saw} the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

One, we see the beast and false prophet demand the amrk and behead those who don't worship the beast and take the mark....and then we see them defeated and cast into the lake of fire...and in Rev. 20 we see those who had been beheaded for not worshipping the beast being made alive. This is AFTER the Second Comng. And they reign with Christ for 1000 years...AFTER the Second Coming.

1000 years is being used as a metaphor as should not be taken literal

Why not? When God said the Israelites would wander for 40 eyars, they wandered for 40 years. When God had jeremiah prophesi that Judah would be captive for 70 years ...they were held captive for 70 years.

Christ will come and set up an everlasting not temporal kingdom.

[/b]

Christ reigns over the church now...and will reign over all the earth from Jerusalem over an earthly kingdom for 1000 years and continue on to reign from the New Jerusalem for ever and ever and ever and ever.
Premillennialism does not mean He only reigns for 1000 years.

 

[ShirleyFord]

ShirlyFord, is Jesus going to come again?

Yes, Jesus is coming back the Second time. But it is not to set up an earthly 1000 year kingdom in earthly old Jerusalem over in the present Middle East nor to ascend to David's old physical throne set up in a physical stone temple with sacrifices being offered continually all around Him. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice for sin. He will not accept any other.

This is what the Bible says will happen at the Second Coming of Christ:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2 Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Shirley

 

[nephilimiyr]

[/font]
No, heaven and earth are not destroyed at his Second Coming but at the end of His Second Advent - the 1000 years.

Hi FreeinChrist, yeah, that's what I believe too, that the new heaven and the new earth will be at the end of the 1000 year reign, not before it. I just didn't feel like making that part of the argued discussion.



Thanks for your reply ShirleyFord,

 

[Rafael]

The last "day" of the Lord is 1000 years long. In that day, earth finally rests under the physical kingdom of God and the tree of life will be restored to earth. The nations left after the tribulation will have to come to Israel and worship the feast of tabernacles once a yars in order for their countries to receive rain. The lion will lay with the lamb and ten men will tug at the hem of a "Jew" and ask about God. The Saints will reign with Jesus, as Rev. 20:6 and 1Corinthians 6:2,3 tell us - two good witnesses. A day is as a 1000 years to the Lord, and again, Rev. 20 shows us what happens at the end of that day. 2Peter 3:10 gives a begining and end but no middle, and we have to use the full balance of scripture to rightly divide the word of truth.
Zechariah points out much of what this time will be like, along with the other prophets in the Old and New Testament.

Zec 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Zech. 14:1 ¶ Watch, for the day of the LORD is coming when your possessions will be plundered right in front of you!
2 On that day I will gather all the nations to fight against Jerusalem. The city will be taken, the houses plundered, and the women raped. Half the population will be taken away into captivity, and half will be left among the ruins of the city.
3 Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as he has fought in times past.
4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives will split apart, making a wide valley running from east to west, for half the mountain will move toward the north and half toward the south.
5 You will flee through this valley, for it will reach across to Azal. Yes, you will flee as you did from the earthquake in the days of King Uzziah of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all his holy ones with him.
6 On that day the sources of light will no longer shine,
7 yet there will be continuous day! Only the LORD knows how this could happen! There will be no normal day and night, for at evening time it will still be light.
8 ¶ On that day life-giving waters will flow out from Jerusalem, half toward the Dead Sea and half toward the Mediterranean, flowing continuously both in summer and in winter.
9 And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day there will be one LORD—his name alone will be worshiped.
10 All the land from Geba, north of Judah, to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem, will become one vast plain. But Jerusalem will be raised up in its original place and will be inhabited all the way from the Benjamin Gate over to the site of the old gate, then to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s winepresses.
11 And Jerusalem will be filled, safe at last, never again to be cursed and destroyed.
12 And the LORD will send a plague on all the nations that fought against Jerusalem. Their people will become like walking corpses, their flesh rotting away. Their eyes will shrivel in their sockets, and their tongues will decay in their mouths.
13 On that day they will be terrified, stricken by the LORD with great panic. They will fight against each other in hand-to-hand combat;
14 Judah, too, will be fighting at Jerusalem. The wealth of all the neighboring nations will be captured—great quantities of gold and silver and fine clothing.
15 This same plague will strike the horses, mules, camels, donkeys, and all the other animals in the enemy camps.
16 ¶ In the end, the enemies of Jerusalem who survive the plague will go up to Jerusalem each year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Shelters.
17 And any nation anywhere in the world that refuses to come to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, will have no rain.

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Rev.20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelations 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Isaiah 11:6 In that day the wolf and the lamb will live together; the leopard and the goat will be at peace. Calves and yearlings will be safe among lions, and a little child will lead them all.
7 The cattle will graze among bears. Cubs and calves will lie down together. And lions will eat grass as the livestock do.
8 Babies will crawl safely among poisonous snakes. Yes, a little child will put its hand in a nest of deadly snakes and pull it out unharmed.
9 Nothing will hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain. And as the waters fill the sea, so the earth will be filled with people who know the LORD.
10 ¶ In that day the heir to David’s throne will be a banner of salvation to all the world. The nations will rally to him, for the land where he lives will be a glorious place.
11 In that day the Lord will bring back a remnant of his people for the second time, returning them to the land of Israel from Assyria, Lower Egypt, Upper Egypt, Ethiopia, Elam, Babylonia, Hamath, and all the distant coastlands.
12 He will raise a flag among the nations for Israel to rally around. He will gather the scattered people of Judah from the ends of the earth.
13 Then at last the jealousy between Israel and Judah will end. They will not fight against each other anymore.

Ezek 36:24-28 For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your Elohim.

Eze 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

 

[parousia70]

When God created this earth and the current heavens that exist now, what did God use to make the earth and heavens come into existence? God just spoke and it appeared.

Are you so sure about that?

According to the Holy Spirit, speaking through Peter, The heavens above and the earth below Peter were not the same heavens and earth God spoke into existance in The Genesis account, for that heaven and earth had already perished:

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished 2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

God never mentions anything about the old materials,

Did God use any of the "old materials" the last time He re- created the heavens and earth? He certainly dosen't mention it, and since that is the criteria you seem to be citing, You must believe He didn't, correct?

the present world is cursed,

Really?

Genesis 8:21 And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, "I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.

Tell me James, what do you suggest God meant when He said He would "NEVER AGAIN cures the ground for man's sake"?

When God says "never again", I think He means it, don't you?

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Does Christ reign on this earth for 1000 years?

1000 years is being used as a metaphor as should not be taken literal

Christ will come and set up an everlasting not temporal kingdom.


In Christ, Mark.

rev 20:2 and he laid hold of the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years

rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit , and shut him up, and set a seal upon him,that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled; and after that he must be loosed a little season.

rev 20:4b neither had recieved his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

rev 20:5 But the reast of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were fininshed...

rev 20:6b they shall be priest of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison.


heb 6:18 its impossible to lie

with that said .. 6 times he names a thousand years

but it is literal if not God is a lier....

 

[parousia70]

rev 20:2 and he laid hold of the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years

rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit , and shut him up, and set a seal upon him,that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled; and after that he must be loosed a little season.

rev 20:4b neither had recieved his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

rev 20:5 But the reast of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were fininshed...

rev 20:6b they shall be priest of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison.


heb 6:18 its impossible to lie

with that said .. 6 times he names a thousand years

but it is literal if not God is a lier....

How does repetition of a symbol make is "less" of a symbol?

where does the Bible teach that?

 

[A Brother In Christ]

how many times does this happen in the bible ..

with examples

 

[FreeinChrist]

rev 20:2 and he laid hold of the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years

rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit , and shut him up, and set a seal upon him,that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled; and after that he must be loosed a little season.

rev 20:4b neither had recieved his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

rev 20:5 But the reast of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were fininshed...

rev 20:6b they shall be priest of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison.


heb 6:18 its impossible to lie

with that said .. 6 times he names a thousand years

but it is literal if not God is a lier....

Yes, I think the repetition is significant.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

thanks

 

[parousia70]

how many times does this happen in the bible ..

with examples

It's your assertion to prove.

Go ahead.

Prove the Bible teaches that symbols never get repeated.

 

[Markea]

Revelation chapter 20 is rehash of prior events. These events will not happen twice.

I often wonder why so much of Christendom makes claims such as this..ie, placing Revelation chapter 20 into a past (preterist) tense..?

Revelation chapter 20 is clearly in the context of Christ's future coming, which is detailed in Revelation 19..

Although much of Christendom embraces amillennialism, claiming that these present times are the millennial kingdom of Christ.. and in doing so..they must also claim that the first resurrection is past, and that satan is currently bound and unable to deceive the nations..

Revelation 20 also speaks of the beast and the false prophet, saying that they're already in the lake of fire.. and that can only happen after the coming of the Lord in Revelation 19 with all His saints..

So..why does so much of Christendom embrace amillennialism and read Revelation 20 in a preterist sense.. ? Because this is what the masses have been taught since approx 430 AD.. when the RCC condemned Chiliasm as heresey and proclaimed that they were reigning now.. and so it's no wonder that they sit in their self appointed seats of authority, claiming lordship over Christ's church... they think they're reigning now !

 

[parousia70]

I often wonder why so much of Christendom makes claims such as this..ie, placing Revelation chapter 20 into a past (preterist) tense..?

First of all, the poster you are quoting is not at all asserting what you are suggesting, but I'm not suprised. You seem to have a pension attributing beliefs to people which they in fact do not hold. An Interesting, but not very effective, debate tactic.

Revelation chapter 20 is clearly in the context of Christ's future coming, which is detailed in Revelation 19..

And Revelation 14 also depicts Christ's Coming on the clouds. It's the same event, not chronological, which is, as I understand it, ross3421's contention. not that Revelation 20 is past, but that it is a literary redescription of the one event of Christ's coming on the clouds, which is described in many ways throughout the Book of revelation.

Although much of Christendom embraces amillennialism, claiming that these present times are the millennial kingdom of Christ.. and in doing so..they must also claim that the first resurrection is past, and that satan is currently bound and unable to deceive the nations..

Show me one entire nation without at least one Christian living there, and I'll believe your claim that Satan has the power to deceive "nations" today.
In contrast, in and before the apostolic generation, entire nations were without the light of Christ, deceived ny Satan. Thankfully, this is no longer the case.







Now, to get specific, The First resurrection was Jesus Christ:

Revelation 1:5
Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born out of the dead

Acts 26:23
Christ should suffer and...be the first that should rise from the dead

Colossians 1:18
He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead

1 Corinthians 15:20
Christ hath risen out of the dead--the first-fruits of those sleeping he became




​

Jesus Christ was, plainly, the first resurrection. This fact forms the basis of St. John's depiction of the tribulation martyr saints becoming full partakers of the "first resurrection" in Revelation 20--everything Christ received by his death and resurrection is granted to them. Revelation 20:4-6, therefore, depicts the reality of Pauline theology concerning the identity Christ's followers had "in Him." Paul had taught that the saints were to become partakers of Christ's own reign and victory over death.




Revelation 20:4-6 is a narrative depiction of the saints' realization of the glorious promise Paul held out for them in his teachings--the saints are depicted as having attained the goal for which they all strove. As Paul taught, their resurrection and reign was "in Christ," and their sufferings and martyrdoms were honored by God with the reward of partaking in Christ's own resurrection, enthronement, and reign. They realized the promise of Paul's teaching that the saints were truly to take part in the first resurrection, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Truly, on these the second death has no power (Rev 20:6).

As for The "loosing of Satan", in the book of Revelation it is the apocalyptic description of Satan's last stand against the Church during the period leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem at AD 70. Having been soundly resisted and defeated during the Messianic generation of the first century (John 12:31; Heb 2:14; 1 John 3:8; Col 2:15; 2 Tim 1:10; 1 Pet 3:22; Matt 28:18; 12:28-29; 4:1-11; Lk 10:18-19; Mk 16:17-18; Eph 1:20-23; Matt 16:18-19), the Devil was permitted a last chance to annihilate the Church that Jesus established as the eternal Nation, People, and Temple of God. The book of Revelation gives two parallel depictions of Satan's last stand against the Church, one in Revelation 20:2-3,7-9 and the other in Revelation 12:9-17. The two passages are close parallels (the key comparisons are emphasized in bold and numbered for the examination which follows the table):

--COMPARE THIS--

Revelation 20:2-3,7-9

And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; (1)

after these things he must be released for a short time. (2&3)

...When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations (1) which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; (4) the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints (5) and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them

--TO THIS--

Revelation 12:9,11-17

And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; (1) They overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death. For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them.

Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time. And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. (2,3&5)

But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman,(4&5) so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood.But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth. So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. (4&5)


While these two passages use differing poetic imagery, they tell the same story of Satan's short, last-days attempt to destroy the Church. By comparing these two passages, we notice some striking similarities:

Satan...

(1) deceives the nations (cf. 20:3,8,10 to 12:9)

(2) is granted a "short time" to do this work (cf. 20:3 to 12:12,14)

(3) is not bound, but is loosed in his wrath (cf. 20:3,7 to 12:12)

(4) is making war (cf. 20:8 to 12:17)

(5) goes to destroy the Church (cf. 20:7,9 to 12:12-17)

These passages speak plainly of a single last-days struggle between Satan's forces and the Church of Jesus Christ. While the poetic imagery varies, the activities and timing of this struggle show that the same event is in view.

Having demonstrated that these passages speak of the same last days event, we note that the Revelation 12 passage has an undeniable parallel with the exodus of the Jerusalem Church into the wilderness as prophesied by Christ in Luke 21:20-22 and Matt 24:15-20. Note the similarity of these two passages concerning some key exodus of God's people:

--COMPARE THIS--

Matthew 24:15-20

Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place [Luke says: "when you shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, know that its desolation is near]

then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.

--TO THIS--

Revelation 12:12-14

...the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time. And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child.

But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.


It is remarkable that both of these texts speak of a key exodus to the wilderness by God's people in the last days. Scholars acknowledge that the exodus of the Jerusalem Church foretold by Christ in Matthew 24:15-20 and Luke 21:20-22 was historically fulfilled around AD 66/67 when the armies of Cestius Gallus (and later Vespasian) surrounded Jerusalem. This historic verification is usually traced to early Christian writers Eusebius and Epiphanius who reported that the Jerusalem Christians fled to the Decapolis city of Pella just prior to the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in AD 70. Eusebius (AD 260-340), the famed Church historian, writes:

But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. And when those that believed in Christ had come thither from Jerusalem, then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of Judea were entirely destitute of holy men, the judgment of God at length overtook those who had committed such outrages against Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of impious men...the general course of the whole war, as well as its particular occurrences in detail, and how at last the abomination of desolation, proclaimed by the prophets, stood in the very temple of God so celebrated of old, the temple which was now awaiting its total and final destruction by fire...[is] accurately described in the history written by Josephus. (Eusebius: Ecc.History III:5)​

Epiphanius (315-403) makes reference to the same exodus to Pella by the Jewish remnant of Christ in Jerusalem and says there were both orthodox and heretical Jewish Christians in the Pella and other Decapolis areas centuries later. Epiphanius writes:

For when the city was about to be captured and sacked by the Romans, all the disciples were warned beforehand by an angel to remove from the city, doomed as it was to utter destruction. On migrating from it they settled at Pella, the town already indicated, across the Jordan. It is said to belong to Decapolis​

Therefore, since Matthew 24:15-20 took place when the apostles saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies (cf. Lk 21:20-22), and since scholars and historians are in agreement that those passages were fulfilled by the Jerusalem Church in AD 66/67, it is plain that the endtimes loosing of Satan to try and extinguish the Church was fulfilled in the first century at this time.



Satan's last chance to extinguish Christ's Church and prevent New Covenant salvation from permanent, universal success took place during the tribulation leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem at AD70.




Finally, no discussion on the last-days loosing of Satan to destroy the Church would be complete without details on what that epic battle entailed. Specifically, Satan's doomsday strategy against the Church involved the spread of a massive deception (Rev 12:9; 20:3,8,10), a deception known to most scholars as the last days "apostasy," or falling away (2 Thess 2:3, 9-12). Jesus foretold of this satanic deception in Matthew 24:24, and specifically prophesied of "wolves in sheeps clothing" that would arise among the Church of God itself (Matt 7:15-23). When did this take place? The apostle Paul, addressing the bishops of Ephesus prior to his captivity in Jerusalem, confirms Christ's prophetic words, informing the bishops of imminent fulfillment: "after my departing, grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things to draw away disciples after them" (Acts 20:29-30). The time had come. The leaders of the Church were facing the epic last-days battle, the "loosing of Satan." In the letter of Ephesians, Paul commands the elders to prepare for the final war against the dark powers of hell: they are to suit up in armor for battle in order that they might be able to "resist in the Day of Evil" (Eph 6:11-17). This "day of evil" would last a very short season (Rev 20:3/12:12). The conflict against Satan was not going to be one of physical swords, shields, and breastplates: it would be one of spiritual warfare, requiring the whole "armor of God" that they might stand and not fall into total apostasy (Eph 6:11-17; Matt 24:24; 2 Thess 2:3,9-12; Heb 6:6-11/10:38-39).

Perhaps one of the most remarkable and underappreciated truths today with regards to the study of bible prophecy, is that the great end times battle between the Church and Satan is historically documented for us in our bibles: we find the historic record of its fulfillment in the pages of New Testament scripture. While we noted above that the disciples at Ephesus were "putting on holy armor" to withstand Satan's last attempt to annihilate the Church at the "Day of Evil" (Eph 6:13), it is evident that the letters of Jude, 2 Timothy, 1&2 Peter, Hebrews, Revelation, and the three epistles of John were all written during that epic struggle. At the time those letters were written, the Church was under a critical and decisive attack, and the flocks of God were falling prey to Satan in great numbers (Jude 1:1-25; 2 Tim 1:15; 4:10-11,16-17; 1 Jn 2:18-19/4:1-3; 2 Jn 1:7; 1 Peter 4:12-13, 5:8-9; Hebrews 6:6-11/10:38-39; 3 Jn 1:9-10; Rev 13:12). Had it been possible, even the very Elect could have been deceived, and the cosmic mystery of God's eternal redemption through Christ would have been extinguished. Even so, the faithful Elect withstood the loosing of Satan by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony (Rev 12:11), and the Bride of Christ did not fall to Satan's last days deception (Rev 20:8,10; Matt 16:18-19).

Having faithfully endured the time of testing and purification, the Church, the Bride of Christ, was arrayed in white and inherited dominion with Christ the Lord over all things in heaven and earth, world without end (Eph 3:21; Rev 19:8; Matt 16:18-19; Rev 5:10; Rev 11:15; Eph 3:9-11). This Church of the New Covenant, prophetically described in St. John's vision as "the Bride" and "the New Jerusalem" (Rev 21-22), rules and reigns with Christ forever on his throne over the universe, all angels, principalities, and governments being subject to the divine decree. And Satan himself, the once-formidable enemy of God's people and former accuser of the brethren, fell under the heels of the one holy apostolic Church.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Are you so sure about that?

According to the Holy Spirit, speaking through Peter, The heavens above and the earth below Peter were not the same heavens and earth God spoke into existance in The Genesis account, for that heaven and earth had already perished:

2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished 2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.



Did God use any of the "old materials" the last time He re- created the heavens and earth? He certainly dosen't mention it, and since that is the criteria you seem to be citing, You must believe He didn't, correct?




Really?

Genesis 8:21 And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, "I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.

Tell me James, what do you suggest God meant when He said He would "NEVER AGAIN cures the ground for man's sake"?

When God says "never again", I think He means it, don't you?

You are totally twisting Scripture.
The curse that God will not do again is the entire world flooded and destroyed by a flood. The rainbow is the sign that He gave that He would not destroy the world in that manner again -but He will destroy it by fire, melting the elements and regenerating the heavens and the earth. Peter speaks of the flood of Noah -and quotes extensively from the Book of Enoch, available and read -along with the Septuagent- at the time of Christ; which dealt extensively with the curse of the flood and the reasons for it and the last judgment.



and local floods sweep away thousands and have swept away thousands; but as long as the world endures seedtime and harvest will not fail-

Gen 8:21 'And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

Gen 8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
... Gen 9:9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;

Gen 9:12And God said, This [is] the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that [is] with you, for perpetual generations:
Gen 9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Gen 9:15 And I will remember my covenant, which [is] between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
Gen 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that [is] upon the earth.


The world that was destroyed was the 'age' before the flood of Noah.
Peter was speaking of the flood of Noah that deatroyed the world ', and Peter references that same flood and that same 'world' several times, being familiar with and quoting from the book of Enoch that was read by Believing Jews at the time of Christ, being included with the Septuagent that they read.


Peter tells us -by authority of the Word of God,
Verse 7. "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."
Verse 10. "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which [in the thousand year Day of the LORD -earth's Sabbath of thousands, beginning as a thief in the night, ending with the elements dissolved and regenerated] the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."