Is there evidence of something beyond nature?

[justlookinla]

"Borexino’s discovery of pp solar neutrinos is a reassuring confirmation of physicists’ main theoretical models describing the sun. Previous experiments have found higher-energy solar neutrinos created by later stages of the fusion process involving the decay of boron atoms. But the lower-energy pp neutrinos were harder to find; their detection completes the picture of the sun’s fusion chain as well as bolsters plans for next-generation Earthbound neutrino experiments."
Strange Neutrinos from the Sun Detected for the First Time - Scientific American

Cosmic accidents created by nothing.

 

[justlookinla]

Krauss has laid out a lot of evidence for the expansion of the universe from "nothing" (which is really "something", but that is a discussion for another time).

Nothing is something, and mindless somethings which are nothing created everything.

Only in the world of atheistic creationism.

 

[Gottservant]

The problem is you are expecting believers to say "whatever" to truth that has already shown promise.

It's bit like expecting a baby to believe in a pink elephant, when he's already licked the candy he does believe is real, but you refuse, for the simple reason that you have discovered pink paint.

It doesn't sound logical, does it?

What I find astounding is that you are willing to bet that reality has a completely causal explanation, when a properly working model of the universe may not be around for hundreds if not thousands of years, if indeed we do ever progress beyond the dissection of immediate cause and effect relationships, as if computation is all you need to base your life on a series of self-serving escapades.

Even if you were right, it's a completely barren way of existing.

It just so happens that every single statistical distribution in existence is part of a communication of God with His creation about the meaning of life, for those that believe reality was created, saying "I have a paltry circumstantial meme to repeat" doesn't even scratch the surface.

I'm not saying you can't know that what you do is for reason, I'm saying if I can come up with as many reasons as I do without attempting to do even one scientific experiment, perhaps you should at least examine your principles before you depart for the last time.

Just a thought.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Just as you speculate, when you claim; appearance of design supports design.

Exactly. That is why I said either. I am making a claim that something supports a belief that something is true.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Which isn't as much as you'd hope.

Have you researched this yet?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Perhaps you can tell me Loudmouth what evidence Krauss has for his theory about the universe from nothing.

 

[Loudmouth]

Perhaps you can tell me Loudmouth what evidence Krauss has for his theory about the universe from nothing.

That would be all of the evidence for inflation and the Big Bang. These are all part of the model of something from "nothing" (nothing being something in the form of unstable spacetime).

 

[Oncedeceived]

That would be all of the evidence for inflation and the Big Bang. These are all part of the model of something from "nothing" (nothing being something in the form of unstable spacetime).

Spacetime didn't exist prior to the universe.

 

[Loudmouth]

Spacetime didn't exist prior to the universe.

Evidence?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Evidence?

It is your claim. Provide evidence that space time existed prior to the big bang. If matter and energy, time and space came into existence in the big bang what evidence does Krauss have to counter that?

 

[Loudmouth]

It is your claim.

You claimed that there was no spacetime. Where is your evidence?

 

[Oncedeceived]

You claimed that there was no spacetime. Where is your evidence?

You have a real problem with the burden of proof. Your first claim was this:

That would be all of the evidence for inflation and the Big Bang. These are all part of the model of something from "nothing" (nothing being something in the form of unstable spacetime).

YOU are claiming that there was space time. It is your claim, it is your burden of proof.

I will provide one link in favor of my counter claim:

The Beginning of Time - Stephen Hawking

I do this out of cooperation, not that it is my burden to prove.

 

[Loudmouth]

You have a real problem with the burden of proof.

Another irony meter explodes.

You claimed there was no spacetime prior to our universe. Where is your evidence for this claim?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Another irony meter explodes.

You claimed there was no spacetime prior to our universe. Where is your evidence for this claim?

Did you not see the link I provided?

 

[Loudmouth]

Did you not see the link I provided?

So what is the evidence?

 

[Oncedeceived]

So what is the evidence?

Did you read the link? IF so, what evidence do you question?

I've thought better of my statement and retract it. So please provide evidence for space time existing prior to the Big Bang.

 

[Loudmouth]

Did you read the link?

Did you?

If you did, then please present the evidenece.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Did you?

If you did, then please present the evidenece.

I retracted my statement. Please provide evidence that space time existed prior to the Big Bang.

 

[Loudmouth]

I retracted my statement. Please provide evidence that space time existed prior to the Big Bang.

What I am commenting on is Krauss' view of what "nothing" is.

"Krauss, however, adopts a much more restrictive definition of nothing. For Krauss, "nothing" is defined as the absence of particulate matter. It does not, however, rule out the existence of quantum fields."
Lawrence Krauss's Nothing is not Nothing

Spacetime is a quantum field.

 

[Oncedeceived]

What I am commenting on is Krauss' view of what "nothing" is.

"Krauss, however, adopts a much more restrictive definition of nothing. For Krauss, "nothing" is defined as the absence of particulate matter. It does not, however, rule out the existence of quantum fields."
Lawrence Krauss's Nothing is not Nothing

Spacetime is a quantum field.

Evidence of a quantum field prior to the Big Bang.