Is there Biblical support for praying to the Saints?

[Anthony70]

Is there anything supporting this practice in any of the books of the LXX OT or the NT?

 

[FutureAndAHope]

There is no support for prayer to the saints. In the bible when ever a messenger was sent by God, be they an angel or a man they always said don't bow to me bow only to God.

Revelation 19:10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Also note that Saint Peter, would not allow men to bow to him. Saying "Stand up; I too am a man"

Act 10:25-26 When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I too am a man.”

 

[prodromos]

There is no support for prayer to the saints. In the bible when ever a messenger was sent by God, be they an angel or a man they always said don't bow to me bow only to God.

Revelation 19:10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Also note that Saint Peter, would not allow men to bow to him. Saying "Stand up; I too am a man"

Act 10:25-26 When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I too am a man.”

Hi there and welcome to The Ancient Way. Please take note that where you are posting there are specific rules that you need to be mindful of.
I recommend you take a moment to read the SOP and perhaps reconsider your post.
Again welcome

 

[ArmyMatt]

There is no support for prayer to the saints. In the bible when ever a messenger was sent by God, be they an angel or a man they always said don't bow to me bow only to God.

Revelation 19:10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Also note that Saint Peter, would not allow men to bow to him. Saying "Stand up; I too am a man"

Act 10:25-26 When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I too am a man.”

"prayer to" and "worship of" are not the same thing. and this is not the place to debate.

 

[prodromos]

Is there anything supporting this practice in any of the books of the LXX OT or the NT?

I've never sought to find out as it has been made clear to me that this is a practice which God blesses abundantly.

 

[Anthony70]

I've never sought to find out as it has been made clear to me that this is a practice which God blesses abundantly.

It was actually for my father to show him that it is Biblical not just traditional.

 

[prodromos]

It was actually for my father to show him that it is Biblical not just traditional.

The Bible is one part of Tradition, just like the liturgy.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Is there anything supporting this practice in any of the books of the LXX OT or the NT?

yes, in Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man petitions (prays to) Abraham and gets an answer.

at the wedding at Cana, the people approach Mary who approaches her Son.

 

[prodromos]

The Church is one body, whether we are in the flesh or not. Seeking the prayers of the Saints give them the opportunity to show love towards their brothers and we in turn grow to love them because of their help for us. Its love all the way, baby.

 

[Kenny'sID]

If you posted here to hear from people who agree with you, you are of course in the right place. If you'd like to hear more from both sides you may want to post elsewhere.

I'm not suggesting you do one or the other, it's all about what you want.

 

[TuxAme]

I'm not Orthodox, but yes, this can be found in Scripture, directly and indirectly. I just saw someone else's post from another website, and they mentioned how many times throughout Scripture, God doesn't just allow intercessory prayer (which this type of prayer is), but commands it. Consider, for example, Job 42:8, where God tells Eliphaz, So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.

While this doesn't precisely display prayer to the saints, it does prove that God is willing to work through His creation and accept its prayers, offered on behalf of others.

 

[Anthony70]

If you posted here to hear from people who agree with you, you are of course in the right place. If you'd like to hear more from both sides you may want to post elsewhere.

I'm not suggesting you do one or the other, it's all about what you want.

I believe only the EO has a form for asking questions so I probably will go to Reddit to ask some Protestant communities.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I believe only the EO has a form for asking questions so I probably will go to Reddit to ask some Protestant communities.

Maybe someone here who is more familiar with CF than I can recommend a forum here to better suit your needs.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I believe only the EO has a form for asking questions so I probably will go to Reddit to ask some Protestant communities.

All the various faith groups have communities. You can ask in any of them, but if you disagree with their answer, you can't debate them. (Only EO has a debate forum - St Justin Martyr's.)

You can also as in various places like General Theology, etc. and hear all sorts of opinions - and you can debate there if you like.

 

[St_Worm2]

yes, in Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man petitions (prays to) Abraham and gets an answer.

at the wedding at Cana, the people approach Mary who approaches her Son.

Hi ArmyMatt, I'm fairly certain that @Anthony70's dad wouldn't have a problem with one person talking to another person when they are in the same physical location (whether on Earth or in Hades). The Protestant problem with this begins and ends with the practice of praying to/petitioning departed saints, since we are here, and they are in Heaven (unless the EOC teaches that departed saints become omnipresent after they die? .. surely not??).

Unfortunately, the Biblical examples you provided us with do not demonstrate that form of communication (communication between the living here on Earth and the departed in Heaven). Are there any Biblical examples that do*?

*(because I'm certain that Biblical evidence showing or telling us that direct communication between the living and the dead is possible, as well that this kind of communication is acceptable to God, is what Anthony's dad is probably seeking to see)

Thanks

--David

 

[ArmyMatt]

Hi ArmyMatt, I'm fairly certain that @Anthony70's dad wouldn't have a problem with one person talking to another person when they are in the same physical location (whether on Earth or in Hades). The Protestant problem with this begins and ends with the practice of praying to/petitioning departed saints, since we are here, and they are in Heaven (unless the EOC teaches that departed saints become omnipresent after they die? .. surely not??).

Unfortunately, the Biblical examples you provided us with do not demonstrate that form of communication (communication between the living here on Earth and the departed in Heaven). Are there any Biblical examples that do*?

*(because I'm certain that Biblical evidence showing or telling us that direct communication between the living and the dead is possible, as well that this kind of communication is acceptable to God, is what Anthony's dad is probably seeking to see)

Thanks

--David

how about the Transfiguration, where Christ, Who is fully man, spoke to the departed Moses, and the Apostles present understood the conversation? if there is no communication between the living and the departed, Christ wouldn't have done it in a human way. and He did.

 

[Not David]

Hi ArmyMatt, I'm fairly certain that @Anthony70's dad wouldn't have a problem with one person talking to another person when they are in the same physical location (whether on Earth or in Hades). The Protestant problem with this begins and ends with the practice of praying to/petitioning departed saints, since we are here, and they are in Heaven (unless the EOC teaches that departed saints become omnipresent after they die? .. surely not??).

Unfortunately, the Biblical examples you provided us with do not demonstrate that form of communication (communication between the living here on Earth and the departed in Heaven). Are there any Biblical examples that do*?

*(because I'm certain that Biblical evidence showing or telling us that direct communication between the living and the dead is possible, as well that this kind of communication is acceptable to God, is what Anthony's dad is probably seeking to see)

Thanks

--David

The Saints are partaking in God's grace at its fullest, so they can do stuff like hear prayers.
Please, someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

[St_Worm2]

how about the Transfiguration, where Christ, Who is fully man, spoke to the departed Moses, and the Apostles present understood the conversation? if there is no communication between the living and the departed, Christ wouldn't have done it in a human way. and He did.

Hi again ArmyMatt, Protestants have no problem with the communication that took place on the Mount of Transfiguration between the living and the dead, because in this case the departed, were no longer "departed". They (the living and the departed) could see, hear and talk to one another face to face right here on Earth.

IOW, along with Jesus, Peter, James and John got to see and hear both Elijah and Moses, right here on Earth. However, once they had returned to Heaven, is there any indication that the Apostles sought to have further contact with either of them (Elijah or Moses), or any teaching or some kind of instruction from the Lord telling them that they should do so?

These are the kinds of things that Protestants like myself, or @Anthony70's dad, look for as proof, but as far as I know, there is none.

Thanks again!

--David

 

[St_Worm2]

The Saints are partaking in God's grace at its fullest, so they can do stuff like hear prayers.
Please, someone correct me if I am wrong.

Hi David, I'm Protestant, and I've studied the doctrine of Theosis, but if it teaches this (that departed saints partake not only of the Lord's Divine nature .. holiness, righteousness, etc .. but that they also become partakers of His Divine attributes as well .. such as Omnipotence, Omnipresence and Omniscience), then I missed something BIG when I was making a study of it (Theosis, that is).

I'm hardly an authority, of course, as I get the sense that I've barely scratched the surface concerning this doctrine, so such a question would be best directed to someone other than me, someone of great knowledge/understanding in the EOC, in fact.

Thanks for bringing that up though because I'd love to know it too!

--David

 

[ArmyMatt]

Hi again ArmyMatt, Protestants have no problem with the communication that took place on the Mount of Transfiguration between the living and the dead, because in this case the departed, were no longer "departed". They (the living and the departed) could see, hear and talk to one another face to face right here on Earth.

IOW, along with Jesus, Peter, James and John got to see and hear both Elijah and Moses, right here on Earth. However, once they had returned to Heaven, is there any indication that the Apostles sought to have further contact with either of them (Elijah or Moses), or any teaching or some kind of instruction from the Lord telling them that they should do so?

These are the kinds of thing that Protestants like myself, or @Anthony70's dad, look for as proof, but as far as I know, there is none.

Thanks again!

--David

that wasn't the point. the point was that communication between the living and the departed is possible if God wills it to be so.