Couldn't you say he had a vision of heaven? He obviously didn't stay there did he?I don't follow. Paul clearly states that the man went to the third Heaven, which is where God resides. The first Heaven is the atmosphere. The second is outer space. The third is where God actually resides.
"4How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."
This once again, ends the debate. He went to Heaven. The bible does not contradict itself. You just have to correct your interpretation of other scriptures.
Couldn't you say he had a vision of heaven? He obviously didn't stay there did he?
Couldn't you say he had a vision of heaven? He obviously didn't stay there did he?
You are correct.
2Cr 12:2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know-God knows.
2Cr 12:3And I know that this man-whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows-
2Cr 12:4was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell.
see the following posts in this thread
12,16,26,33,37,40,46,47,50
he asked a question....I answered with scripture and scripture references and post referencesIgnore him, Mr. King. If he can't prove his point using Scriptures, there's nothing to debate. His opinion is not on the level of scripture.
"in the graves" is just a figurative way of saying dead
the fact remains that God returns with them that have died in Christ,
from heaven to the earth in 1Thes 4:13-18
and the fact is that we have declarations made in the 5th seal and in Rev12 which show the dead in heaven
and the fact remains that the angel that showed John the Rev17-22 chapters,
was a brethren and a prophet
the fact remains that Lazarus died, and was resurected...and we have a teaching of Christ dealing with the death of Lazarus
Abraham Isaac and Jacob are alive today, not dead in the ground
Our God is God of the Living, not the dead
And yet our Lord said they were alive 2,000 years ago...
Hence the overlap. God's timing is outside ours. To the dead, the next blink of the eye is at the end of time, at the resurrection and we will be there altogether. To us on earth, it looks like they are still in the grave, "asleep".
The Hebrews believed that a dead person becomes a 'rephaim' (the weak) in sheol (Psalm 88, Job3) until the resurrection. That was their dwelling place.
The general resurection has not happened yet. King David was still buried, and he had not ascended to heaven and he has not come out of his grave until now. (Actws 2:29-34). But to God, we will be given an immortal, incorruptable resurrection body and live with him for ever.
The core, central belief of the Christian faith is the resurrection of the dead, not the immortality of the soul.
What! The resurrection (general) of the dead has not happened yet. Jesus has not had his 2nd coming so the last day as spoken of in John chapter 6 has not arrived yet. It is you who does not believe in the resurrection of the dead, because if we go straight to heaven upon death, what is the point of a general resurrection as described in 1 Corinthians 15?You don't realize it, but like the Saudcees of old, you are denying the resurrection of the dead. They are already with Him TODAY.
If you read on, you will get:But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die...So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption...It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
No flesh bodies are coming out of any graves. To believe that is to be deceived.
No flesh bodies are coming out of any graves. To believe that is to be deceived.
Dust to dust.
"Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord-for we walk by faith, not by sight-we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord" (2 Cor. 5:6-8).
When a Christian dies, their soul goes immediately to heaven. Those souls will not be joined with their resurrected bodies until they are caught up together with those who are alive to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thess. 413-18).
In Christ,
Tracey
What! The resurrection (general) of the dead has not happened yet. Jesus has not had his 2nd coming so the last day as spoken of in John chapter 6 has not arrived yet. It is you who does not believe in the resurrection of the dead, because if we go straight to heaven upon death, what is the point of a general resurrection as described in 1 Corinthians 15?
If you read on, you will get:
51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
Your streak of wrong continues!