Of course not because its not a noramtive statement. Normative statements are value judgements about what we "Ought" to do or not do. You cannot apply that to preferences for TV shows because its not wrong to like Star Trek.
Your conflating tow different things. Its like saying what if someone preferred 2+2=5 in stead of 2+2=4 as a fact beyond themselves. It cannot be its just the persons preference and not a fact.
And the same applies to morality.
lol. And I have told you its more than just acting that way. Under a noramtive system"acting that way" is what makes it real and the truth. That how ethics
Thats what moral realism is. There is no choice but to act that way. If there are no other options then acting that way is the option for morality. But heres the ironic thing. You keep asking me to stop using this anaolgy while you are doing it your self ie "people are socially consitioned to act that way and this means morals are subjective".
Oh, for crying out loud...
People acting like it's objective, or normative, or whatever else, doesn't actually make it that way!
How do you treat a subjective view as objective. Its impossible. Subjective is all about self (the subject). Where as objective is beyond the subjects views.
I've already answered this.
"Ew, oysters are disgusting! They taste like boogers!"
Look at that, I presented my subjective view about the taste of oysters as though it was an objective fact.
I agree that peoples subjective view can be reagrded an an objective fact but only for the person holding the view. It doesnt apply beyond the person onto others or in a normative way. But that is what happens with morality. People take that subjective view and apply in like its a truth or fact for all people. They cannot do that as its inconsistent with subjetcive morals.
Why do you think that subjective views can't be held by more than one person, or even by a majority of people?
A subjective view that is held by EVERYONE is still going to be subjective. They may THINK it's objective, and they may argue that it's objective by saying, "It it isn't objective, why do we all agree on it?" but at the end of the day it's still subjective.
Fair enough, I cannot remember or be bothered to go through the posts. Anyway this is all irrelevant because as you even acknowledge "acting consistently with something doesnt mean morality is subjective or objective.
So I take it that you agree with that claim then?
In that case, I hope I never again see you argue that morality is objective just because people act like it is.
How, its impossible. The moment a person declares something is morally wrong as a fact beyond themselves they have given up their subjective position and taken an objective one.
Go read my oyster line again.
Then why did you say
"if morality is socially conditioned, then it is subjective". That implies your saying because people act consistent with subjective morality then morality must be subjective.
If X is consistent with Y, but inconsistent with Z, then finding X will be evidence that Y is correct and evidence that Z is incorrect.
Yes so if we read the manufacturers instructions and it says that to heat a meal it takes 5 minutes we have used an objective measure for what will heat the meal. When the microwave dings we know that it should heat the food. Thats why there are buttons for heating different foods as the manufacturer has ytested the mechanisms to heat we can have an objective measure of how long it takes to heat food.
Thats why they have all the different presets for different food. We should expect that setting the timer for a certain length will heat the meal. If it doesnt then something went wrong with the machine. These are all objective measures.
Yeah, this completely misses the point.
Why do you answer replis with a another objection rather than just addressing the point made. The point was you said disagreements = morality being subjective. I said that doesnt follow because even when there is an objective to find people still disagree on the way to finding that objective.
Compare the split between moral objectivists and moral subjectivists. The two different camps each make up a fairly significant part of the whole. Now compare the split between two different sides of something that we know is objective, like the shape of the Earth. You'll find that one side is absolutely massive and contains nearly everyone, and the other side is made up of a handful of conspiracy theorists, etc.
This indicates that any disagreement regarding things that are actually objective is going to be very one-sided. And that is NOT what we see with morality.
So disagreement alone doesn't prove morals are subjective. You need to acknowledge that you are wrong on this rather than create a Red Herring about some other issue.
And you'll find that I've never stated it was proof. I said it was evidence.
That wasn't the point. The point was "people disagreeing about science doesnt mean there are no objective facts to find. This equates to people disagreeing about morality doiesnt mean there are no objective morals to find. This is a logical fact.
The difference is that the objective facts about science can be described in a structured formal language, it's called maths. Logic can also be described in a mathematic-type language.
I'm still waiting for you to do that with morality.
This is silly. Your question proposes that this issue requires a value judgement. That in itself opens the door for objective reasoning to determine what is morally acceptable or not in consuming animals. So you have already implied objective morality by the way you ask the question as an issue that matters morlaly and needs a determination. We cannot make any determination unless we have some objective basis ie
Is it justified to kill animals for human consumption as its a source of food to sustain and keep humans alive. Is it best to do this in by animal raising rather than killing animals in the wild. These are all ethical questions that need a right or wrong answer. You cannot even discuss this issue without some common objective basis to reach an agreement.
I'm using a particular kind of proof in which I assume that one particular side is true and follow it to it's logical conclusion. In this case, I assume that morality is objective (even though I don't believe that it is, I am making the assumption to give you a chance to prove your point while playing in your own sandbox), and follow it to the conclusion that if morality is objectyive, it must be able to be described in an objective manner.
We can do it with science, we can do it with maths, we can do it with logic. So now I'm asking you to show me how to do it with morality, since you claim that it is objective like science, maths and logic. So far, you've gone out of your way to avoid doing this.