-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Is there a need for Islam??
- Thread starter Farid
- Start date
Montalban
Well-Known Member
Here's where Islam beats the Christianity 
hands-down in being more 'comprehensive': Women as accursed sex-slaves.
"The prophet of Allah said: When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire, let her come to him though she is occupied at the oven."
Mishkat al-Masabih, English translation, Book I, Section 'Duties of husband and wife', Hadith No. 61
"The prophet said: 'When a man calls his wife to bed and she does not come, the husband spends the night being angry with her, and the angels curse her until morning. The one who is in heaven is displeased with her until the husband is pleased with her.'"(Sahih hadith, chapter 558)
"SATISFYING THE HUSBAND'S SEXUAL DESIRES
The Qur'an, speaking figuratively about sex, says of women:
Women are your fields: go, then, into your fields whence you please. (Qur'an 2:223, Dawood)
Muhammad gave strong warnings to women who would not accommodate their husbands/masters desire.
Talq b. `Ali reported God's messenger as saying, "When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire she must go to him even if she is occupied at the oven." (Mishkat Al-Masabih, p. 691: Tirmidhi)
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet (p.) said, "if a man invites his wive (sic) to sleep with him an she refuses to come to him, then angels send their curses on her till morning." (Sahih al-Bukhari, vol. 7, hadith 121, p. 93)"
http://www.answering-islam.org/Green/womenstatus.htm
Women's testimony is worth less than a man's
Sura 2:282 states:
O you who believe! When you contract a debt for a fixed period, write it down. Let a scribe write it down in justice between you. Let not the scribe refuse to write as Allah has taught him, so let him write. Let him (the debtor) who incurs the liability dictate, and he must fear Allah, his Lord, and diminish not anything of what he owes. But if the debtor is of poor understanding, or weak, or is unable himself to dictate, then let his guardian dictate in justice. And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her. And the witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (for evidence). You should not become weary to write it (your contract), whether it be small or big, for its fixed term, that is more just with Allah; more solid as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves, save when it is a present trade which you carry out on the spot among yourselves, then there is no sin on you if you do not write it down. But take witnesses whenever you make a commercial contract. Let neither scribe nor witness suffer any harm, but if you do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So be afraid of Allah; and Allah teaches you. And Allah is the All-Knower of each and everything.
Note: It does not say "Only in a case of contract"."Dr. Badawi on p.34-35 acknowledges this, but also quotes Sura 24:6-9 which gives both husband and wife equal weight on charges of infidelity of the wife. Dr. Badawi says Sura 2:282 applies to only commercial transactions, and Sura 24:6-9 applies to everything else. However, it would be just as reasonable for all the other Muslim scholars to say Sura 24:6-9 applies to only infidelity cases, and Sura 2:282 applies to everything else."
Regardless of Badawi’s novel interpretation, all should agree that since the vast majority of Muslims who practice Sharia have used the same interpretation here, either
a) Allah failed to communicate what he intended
b) Badawi is right and the Muslim consensus has misunderstood Allah’s wishes all these centuries
c) Otherwise Dr. Badawi is wrong.
So if a Muslim man were to rape a Muslim woman, the man’s word would count twice as much as the woman’s. The word of a non-Muslim does not count at all in a court of law against a Muslim. Muslim man rapes a non-Muslim woman, even if a second non-Muslim woman is present, his word (that he did not do it) would count equal to the word of both of them.
http://www.muslimhope.com/womeninislam.htm
And the commentators do say that a woman's testimony is worth less than a man's...
"Commentators quote this hadith to support the fact that the woman's testimony, in Islam, is worth half of man's testimony.(2) The commentator Fakhr al-Razi speaks of the "forgetfulness of woman" referring to her being "damp and cold in essence".(3)
Ibn Qayyim al-Jawzi justifies the import of Sura al-Baqara 2:282 by saying:
Our leading scholar Ibn Taymiyya, may God show mercy upon him, said, "The divine instruction, 'If there are not two men [available], then one man and two women [may serve] as witnesses from anyone you may approve of, so that if either of them should slip up, then one woman may remind the other,' indicates that the testimony of two women in the place of one man is for the purpose of reminding one another in case one of them slips up. In fact, people usually slip up in such matters. The Prophet referred to this when he said, 'As to the deficiency of their intelligence, the witness of two women are equal to the witness of one man.' Thus he made it clear that dividing their testimony after such a manner is due to the deficiency of their intelligence, not of their religion. Thus it is known that 'The righteousness of women is the same as that of men, nevertheless, their intelligence is less than theirs.' So in such matters as bearing witness, slipping up is not to be feared usually. Women's testimony is treated in this respect as having half the value of men's; their testimony is accepted separately. It depends on things they see, touch, or hear with no need for much intelligence. Conception, the beginning of the month, giving birth, menstruation, or defects under a dress, these are not easily forgotten and it does not need a perfect mind to recognise them, like the meanings of the sayings that they listen to [for instance, the confession of faith, etc...] which have sensible meanings and have long been used in general."(4)"
http://www.light-of-life.com/eng/reveal/
Notes for above quote:
2) al-Razi, 7:113; Ibn Kathir, 1:335.
3) al-Razi, 7:113.
4) Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya, al-Turuq al-hukmiyya (Cairo, 1961), p.175.
Further to that a Moslem may take women as 'rightful' prisoners. Muhammed himself took one woman after he had witnessed the death of the male members of her clan.
hands-down in being more 'comprehensive': Women as accursed sex-slaves."The prophet of Allah said: When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire, let her come to him though she is occupied at the oven."
Mishkat al-Masabih, English translation, Book I, Section 'Duties of husband and wife', Hadith No. 61
"The prophet said: 'When a man calls his wife to bed and she does not come, the husband spends the night being angry with her, and the angels curse her until morning. The one who is in heaven is displeased with her until the husband is pleased with her.'"(Sahih hadith, chapter 558)
"SATISFYING THE HUSBAND'S SEXUAL DESIRES
The Qur'an, speaking figuratively about sex, says of women:
Women are your fields: go, then, into your fields whence you please. (Qur'an 2:223, Dawood)
Muhammad gave strong warnings to women who would not accommodate their husbands/masters desire.
Talq b. `Ali reported God's messenger as saying, "When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire she must go to him even if she is occupied at the oven." (Mishkat Al-Masabih, p. 691: Tirmidhi)
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet (p.) said, "if a man invites his wive (sic) to sleep with him an she refuses to come to him, then angels send their curses on her till morning." (Sahih al-Bukhari, vol. 7, hadith 121, p. 93)"
http://www.answering-islam.org/Green/womenstatus.htm
Women's testimony is worth less than a man's
Sura 2:282 states:
O you who believe! When you contract a debt for a fixed period, write it down. Let a scribe write it down in justice between you. Let not the scribe refuse to write as Allah has taught him, so let him write. Let him (the debtor) who incurs the liability dictate, and he must fear Allah, his Lord, and diminish not anything of what he owes. But if the debtor is of poor understanding, or weak, or is unable himself to dictate, then let his guardian dictate in justice. And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her. And the witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (for evidence). You should not become weary to write it (your contract), whether it be small or big, for its fixed term, that is more just with Allah; more solid as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves, save when it is a present trade which you carry out on the spot among yourselves, then there is no sin on you if you do not write it down. But take witnesses whenever you make a commercial contract. Let neither scribe nor witness suffer any harm, but if you do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So be afraid of Allah; and Allah teaches you. And Allah is the All-Knower of each and everything.
Note: It does not say "Only in a case of contract"."Dr. Badawi on p.34-35 acknowledges this, but also quotes Sura 24:6-9 which gives both husband and wife equal weight on charges of infidelity of the wife. Dr. Badawi says Sura 2:282 applies to only commercial transactions, and Sura 24:6-9 applies to everything else. However, it would be just as reasonable for all the other Muslim scholars to say Sura 24:6-9 applies to only infidelity cases, and Sura 2:282 applies to everything else."
Regardless of Badawi’s novel interpretation, all should agree that since the vast majority of Muslims who practice Sharia have used the same interpretation here, either
a) Allah failed to communicate what he intended
b) Badawi is right and the Muslim consensus has misunderstood Allah’s wishes all these centuries
c) Otherwise Dr. Badawi is wrong.
So if a Muslim man were to rape a Muslim woman, the man’s word would count twice as much as the woman’s. The word of a non-Muslim does not count at all in a court of law against a Muslim. Muslim man rapes a non-Muslim woman, even if a second non-Muslim woman is present, his word (that he did not do it) would count equal to the word of both of them.
http://www.muslimhope.com/womeninislam.htm
And the commentators do say that a woman's testimony is worth less than a man's...
"Commentators quote this hadith to support the fact that the woman's testimony, in Islam, is worth half of man's testimony.(2) The commentator Fakhr al-Razi speaks of the "forgetfulness of woman" referring to her being "damp and cold in essence".(3)
Ibn Qayyim al-Jawzi justifies the import of Sura al-Baqara 2:282 by saying:
Our leading scholar Ibn Taymiyya, may God show mercy upon him, said, "The divine instruction, 'If there are not two men [available], then one man and two women [may serve] as witnesses from anyone you may approve of, so that if either of them should slip up, then one woman may remind the other,' indicates that the testimony of two women in the place of one man is for the purpose of reminding one another in case one of them slips up. In fact, people usually slip up in such matters. The Prophet referred to this when he said, 'As to the deficiency of their intelligence, the witness of two women are equal to the witness of one man.' Thus he made it clear that dividing their testimony after such a manner is due to the deficiency of their intelligence, not of their religion. Thus it is known that 'The righteousness of women is the same as that of men, nevertheless, their intelligence is less than theirs.' So in such matters as bearing witness, slipping up is not to be feared usually. Women's testimony is treated in this respect as having half the value of men's; their testimony is accepted separately. It depends on things they see, touch, or hear with no need for much intelligence. Conception, the beginning of the month, giving birth, menstruation, or defects under a dress, these are not easily forgotten and it does not need a perfect mind to recognise them, like the meanings of the sayings that they listen to [for instance, the confession of faith, etc...] which have sensible meanings and have long been used in general."(4)"
http://www.light-of-life.com/eng/reveal/
Notes for above quote:
2) al-Razi, 7:113; Ibn Kathir, 1:335.
3) al-Razi, 7:113.
4) Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya, al-Turuq al-hukmiyya (Cairo, 1961), p.175.
Further to that a Moslem may take women as 'rightful' prisoners. Muhammed himself took one woman after he had witnessed the death of the male members of her clan.
Upvote
0
can we assume that you have nothing to say about christianity's position on the issues raised, rather you have much to say about other religions.
I understand your frustration.
let us agree to present our respective religions. i am not claiming christianity is this or that, i am waiting for you to present what it is since you are a follower of that religion.
unfortunately you have nothing to say.
I understand your frustration.
let us agree to present our respective religions. i am not claiming christianity is this or that, i am waiting for you to present what it is since you are a follower of that religion.
unfortunately you have nothing to say.
Upvote
0
OrthodoxServant86
Active Member
- Jun 27, 2003
- 196
- 0
- 38
- Faith
- Eastern Orthodox
- Marital Status
- Single
A little late for me to post in here, but I'll offer a few words. Firstly, I'll answer the question of what religions are as comprehensive as Islam. Well, first you must define comprehensive, as that will cause significant variations in my selection of examples. Does it involve legalistic moral guidance, prophecy, philosophy, scriptures, traditions, way of life, all of the above etc....
If I were to choose just a few examples, I would say Judaism (first the Torah, then the Mishnah, the Talmud, the Midrash and various interpretations of Halachah and philosophy by later thinkers such as Rashi, Maimonides, Ezra. Then of course there are all the various schools of interpretation of prophecies of scripture, as well as the more mystical school of Qabbalah), pretty much anything from India (the laws of Manu come to mind, the various philosophies of each major religion seeking to encompass the entirety of existence and eternity both scientifically and spiritually. The ways of life encouraged by schools of Yoga and devout lives dedicated to a specific deity, etc.), Confucianism (very rigid social structures, preservation of sacred traditions and worship of the ancestors, I think
), heck why not tack the Bushido of Japan onto that list (principles of honour that designate the way of life for samurai and other classes, duties, laws, punishments, etc. Spiritual tradition based on Zen Buddhism and partly Shintoism).
As far far as my own religion is concerned, I would like to make a point first. When you (plural) speak to me, know that you are speaking to Justin C., not Franco-Briton former Roman Catholic now Orthodox Christian, and as such, I can only represent my own opinions and, by the grace of God, what little I understand about God and the workings of this universe. I think everyone here can benefit from this manner of motivation behind what we write, it would certainly benefit this conversation and pull it out of the dregs of name calling and people-bashing.
As such, I would also like to say that there was a time when I considered Islam as a religion I would convert to, that is, a way of life and philosophy I would want to adapt. I came near to professing the Shahadah (la illaha ila allah, wa muhammadun ar-rasul'illah, IIRC) in full faith. But in the end I decided against it; I was in a very confusing time in my life and I sought some order, and Islam seemed to have all the answers (and indeed, it does apparently).
But many of them are answers to question no human can ask and expect an anwer to. That is why I rejected Islam, and why I do today, because it is so comprehensive that it is clearly - to me - an artifice, a mosaic strewn together by certain arabian traders-turned-raiders and their leader to form a message so impossibly self-supporting and enclosing that there is no place for God but in the fancying of theologians debating the finer aspects of Shari'a. The same arguably happened to medieval Christendom in the West (scholasticism).
In Orthodoxy you will not find us quoting our scriptures left and right or priding our glorious achievements, if we should happen to have any, in culture and statehood; if one of us does, then we have failed in our task, to preach the gospel. This is beyond a mere rejection of sola scriptura, it is the fundamental belief that we form the body of Christ, the Church whose goal is to exist in harmony with the love of God, allowing ourselves to live out our lives according to this fundamental principle of love. To do anything other than preach the gospel by our actions and our love for you and each other is to sin against God, for we have done nothing but worsen the fallen state of our souls and bodies.
So if you should ask if my religion is comprehensive, I would answer you like this: Orthodoxy is the message of Christ, whose goal is to purify this *points to the heart*, illuminate this *points to the head* and to let the grace of God flow as a result through these *points to the mouth, and the hands.* This is the Way of life, the Way of salvation, all languages, customs, philosophies and laws become transfigured according to it when it is lived, and all the universe is contained in its simple, guiding principle of one word; Love.
I hope this helps to illustrate an Orthodox understanding and my own feeble opinion.
In love and peace,
-Justin
p.s. If I have offended anyone, I pray for your forgiveness!
If I were to choose just a few examples, I would say Judaism (first the Torah, then the Mishnah, the Talmud, the Midrash and various interpretations of Halachah and philosophy by later thinkers such as Rashi, Maimonides, Ezra. Then of course there are all the various schools of interpretation of prophecies of scripture, as well as the more mystical school of Qabbalah), pretty much anything from India (the laws of Manu come to mind, the various philosophies of each major religion seeking to encompass the entirety of existence and eternity both scientifically and spiritually. The ways of life encouraged by schools of Yoga and devout lives dedicated to a specific deity, etc.), Confucianism (very rigid social structures, preservation of sacred traditions and worship of the ancestors, I think
), heck why not tack the Bushido of Japan onto that list (principles of honour that designate the way of life for samurai and other classes, duties, laws, punishments, etc. Spiritual tradition based on Zen Buddhism and partly Shintoism). As far far as my own religion is concerned, I would like to make a point first. When you (plural) speak to me, know that you are speaking to Justin C., not Franco-Briton former Roman Catholic now Orthodox Christian, and as such, I can only represent my own opinions and, by the grace of God, what little I understand about God and the workings of this universe. I think everyone here can benefit from this manner of motivation behind what we write, it would certainly benefit this conversation and pull it out of the dregs of name calling and people-bashing.
As such, I would also like to say that there was a time when I considered Islam as a religion I would convert to, that is, a way of life and philosophy I would want to adapt. I came near to professing the Shahadah (la illaha ila allah, wa muhammadun ar-rasul'illah, IIRC) in full faith. But in the end I decided against it; I was in a very confusing time in my life and I sought some order, and Islam seemed to have all the answers (and indeed, it does apparently).
But many of them are answers to question no human can ask and expect an anwer to. That is why I rejected Islam, and why I do today, because it is so comprehensive that it is clearly - to me - an artifice, a mosaic strewn together by certain arabian traders-turned-raiders and their leader to form a message so impossibly self-supporting and enclosing that there is no place for God but in the fancying of theologians debating the finer aspects of Shari'a. The same arguably happened to medieval Christendom in the West (scholasticism).
In Orthodoxy you will not find us quoting our scriptures left and right or priding our glorious achievements, if we should happen to have any, in culture and statehood; if one of us does, then we have failed in our task, to preach the gospel. This is beyond a mere rejection of sola scriptura, it is the fundamental belief that we form the body of Christ, the Church whose goal is to exist in harmony with the love of God, allowing ourselves to live out our lives according to this fundamental principle of love. To do anything other than preach the gospel by our actions and our love for you and each other is to sin against God, for we have done nothing but worsen the fallen state of our souls and bodies.
So if you should ask if my religion is comprehensive, I would answer you like this: Orthodoxy is the message of Christ, whose goal is to purify this *points to the heart*, illuminate this *points to the head* and to let the grace of God flow as a result through these *points to the mouth, and the hands.* This is the Way of life, the Way of salvation, all languages, customs, philosophies and laws become transfigured according to it when it is lived, and all the universe is contained in its simple, guiding principle of one word; Love.
I hope this helps to illustrate an Orthodox understanding and my own feeble opinion.
In love and peace,
-Justin
p.s. If I have offended anyone, I pray for your forgiveness!
Upvote
0
Hi Farid, Yes, IMO there is a need for Islam. I believe that Islam is needed by Christianity in the same way Christianity is needed by Islam.Farid said:
Why do I think so? From Islam we can see if Christianity does work, by showing understanding, love, appreciation respect to those of other systems of belief - & vice versa.
Upvote
0
(a) Islam is not needed by Christianity.Kris_J said:
(b) All what you can see from Islam is what Islam want's you to see. As for your Qur'an it contradicts itself within this very topic (whether Christianity "works"). For the Qur'an says that the Bible is reliable and not corrupted
"Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all," (6:115).
"For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity," (10:64).
"For to them (Christians and Jews) was entrusted the protection of Allah's Book" (5:47)
When Muhammed (570 - 632) was alive, he claimed to receive the revelation of the Qu'ran from Allah. This means that at that time, the Bible, which was in existence, could not have been corrupted because the Qu'ran states that God's word cannot be corrupted.
But then, the Qur'an, in other parts, starts accusing the same Christians and Jews of:
1/ Concealing the truth of the scripture: Who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah?' (2:140).
2/ Teaching falsely and forgetting what they had heard from their scripture:
There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah (3:78).
They change words from their context and forget a part of that whereof they were admonished (5:13).
3/ Wanting profit from the scriptures: They change words from their context and forget a part of that whereof they were admonished (5:13).
And remember Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it; but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! And vile was the bargain they made! (3:187)
4/ Some of the Jews who were transgressors and did not know the Book wrote false scripture: But the transgressors changed the word from that which had been given them (2:59).
Among them are unlettered folk who know the Scripture not except from hearsay. They but guess. Therefore woe be unto them who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, "This is from Allah," that they may purchase a small gain therewith (2:78-79).
And, don't even get me started on the contradictions, coz I have a lot in store for that topic.Among them are unlettered folk who know the Scripture not except from hearsay. They but guess. Therefore woe be unto them who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, "This is from Allah," that they may purchase a small gain therewith (2:78-79).
Upvote
0
NOTW said:
An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah: For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
[Matthew 12:39-40]
And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.
[Mark 8:12]
Upvote
0
Oh my word.Fire said:
As I have just said, stereotype misunderstanding.
The sign Jesus is talking about is when the Jews were asking for a miracle to believe in Jesus. And Jesus basically told them that the only miracle that will be given to you (jews) is his crucifiction (symbolizes in Jonah being in the whales stomach for 3 days and 3 nights). Doesn't that ring a bell
?Exactly, Jesus was crucified and was buried for 3 days and 3 nights.
So, what I was asking from you wasn't even a sign. You accused the Bible of being contradictory and I asked you for the verses that contradicts each other. And you couldn't prove it, and didn't want to look like you've failed, so you've decided to post these verses.
Well, too bad. Maybe next time before accusing a religion of being contradictory, find these contradictory verses first.
Upvote
0
Please start another thread if you want to allege contradictions in others' religions.
let us continue the discussion...
First of all thanks for your post.
let us define comprehensive as:
As muslims, we believe that the guidance for humanity is contained within the Qur'an, and explained to us by the prophet Muhammad(pbuh). My position is that the guidance of the Qur'an has been the most comprehensive guide for all matters of life including but not limited to legalistic moral guidance, prophecy, philosophy, scriptures, spirituality, personal relationships, economics, politics, justice, environment, etc.. I am not alleging that it is the most comprehensive within one subject like spirituality.
I gave islam's position on various topics and invited others to present what their religion's position was on those topics.
I agree that these discussions should not be reduced to people and religion bashing. Some come here and attempt to tell me what islam is or is not quoting non-islamic sources. I don't know why they don't devote their time to investigate their own beliefs and present that to us so that we may share our respective knowledge.
sholastic study of religion is only a component of it, it is not defined by it. Our religion is defined by Qur'an. scholars can debate and discuss topics and issues till the cows come home, but it takes nothing away from the underlying source and message.
Islam encourages each and everyone of us to become learned and knowledgable about our religion and our environment. We are discouraged in following blindly what scholars or religious leaders tell us. The sources are there for all of us to gain guidance.
It is comforting to know that whatever questions i have on issues in human life i can refer to the guidance of islam for answers.
let us continue the discussion...
OrthodoxServant86 said:
First of all thanks for your post.
let us define comprehensive as:
- So large in scope or content as to include much: a comprehensive history of the revolution.
- Marked by or showing extensive understanding: comprehensive knowledge http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=comprehensive
As muslims, we believe that the guidance for humanity is contained within the Qur'an, and explained to us by the prophet Muhammad(pbuh). My position is that the guidance of the Qur'an has been the most comprehensive guide for all matters of life including but not limited to legalistic moral guidance, prophecy, philosophy, scriptures, spirituality, personal relationships, economics, politics, justice, environment, etc.. I am not alleging that it is the most comprehensive within one subject like spirituality.
I gave islam's position on various topics and invited others to present what their religion's position was on those topics.
i would love to find out what these religions had to say about those topics i raised.If I were to choose just a few examples, I would say Judaism (first the Torah, then the Mishnah, the Talmud, the Midrash and various interpretations of Halachah and philosophy by later thinkers such as Rashi, Maimonides, Ezra. Then of course there are all the various schools of interpretation of prophecies of scripture, as well as the more mystical school of Qabbalah), pretty much anything from India (the laws of Manu come to mind, the various philosophies of each major religion seeking to encompass the entirety of existence and eternity both scientifically and spiritually. The ways of life encouraged by schools of Yoga and devout lives dedicated to a specific deity, etc.), Confucianism (very rigid social structures, preservation of sacred traditions and worship of the ancestors, I think
I agree that these discussions should not be reduced to people and religion bashing. Some come here and attempt to tell me what islam is or is not quoting non-islamic sources. I don't know why they don't devote their time to investigate their own beliefs and present that to us so that we may share our respective knowledge.
sholastic study of religion is only a component of it, it is not defined by it. Our religion is defined by Qur'an. scholars can debate and discuss topics and issues till the cows come home, but it takes nothing away from the underlying source and message.
Islam encourages each and everyone of us to become learned and knowledgable about our religion and our environment. We are discouraged in following blindly what scholars or religious leaders tell us. The sources are there for all of us to gain guidance.
It is comforting to know that whatever questions i have on issues in human life i can refer to the guidance of islam for answers.
Upvote
0
rahul_sharma
Hindu dominated India - Largest Democracy on Earth
ServantofTheOne said:
All roads lead to Hinduism?
http://www.christianforums.com/t1166940-all-roads-lead-to-ancient-hinduism-.html
Islam corrupted photocopy of Hinduism?
http://www.christianforums.com/t1164094-is-islam-angry-childcorrupted-form-of-hinduism.html
Question for Muslims
http://www.christianforums.com/t1177471-question-for-muslims.html
If you can give logical replies instead of usual deny deny deny , then u r welcome in these threads .
Upvote
0
S Walch
-
Fire said:
Are you sure Matthew and Mark are talking about the same thing?
could jesus have not said what he said in Matthew somewhere, and the one in Mark somewhere else?
Think you find that these are two different occasions when he had been asked for a sign.
Lets look at the rest of the verses surrounding these two passages you have mentioned shall we?
Matthew 12:38-50
38 One day some teachers of religious law and Pharisees came to Jesus and said, "Teacher, we want you to show us a miraculous sign to prove that you are from God."
39 But Jesus replied, "Only an evil, faithless generation would ask for a miraculous sign; but the only sign I will give them is the sign of the prophet Jonah.
40 For as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so I, the Son of Man, will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.
41 The people of Nineveh will rise up against this generation on judgment day and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. And now someone greater than Jonah is here--and you refuse to repent.
42 The queen of Sheba will also rise up against this generation on judgment day and condemn it, because she came from a distant land to hear the wisdom of Solomon. And now someone greater than Solomon is here--and you refuse to listen to him.
4 3"When an evil spirit leaves a person, it goes into the desert, seeking rest but finding none.
44 Then it says, `I will return to the person I came from.' So it returns and finds its former home empty, swept, and clean.
45 Then the spirit finds seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they all enter the person and live there. And so that person is worse off than before. That will be the experience of this evil generation."
46 As Jesus was speaking to the crowd, his mother and brothers were outside, wanting to talk with him.
47 Someone told Jesus, "Your mother and your brothers are outside, and they want to speak to you."
48 Jesus asked, "Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?"
49 Then he pointed to his disciples and said, "These are my mother and brothers.
50 Anyone who does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother!"
Now mark 8:10-15
10 Immediately after this, he got into a boat with his disciples and crossed over to the region of Dalmanutha.
11 When the Pharisees heard that Jesus had arrived, they came to argue with him. Testing him to see if he was from God, they demanded, "Give us a miraculous sign from heaven to prove yourself."
12 When he heard this, he sighed deeply and said, "Why do you people keep demanding a miraculous sign? I assure you, I will not give this generation any such sign."
13 So he got back into the boat and left them, and he crossed to the other side of the lake.
See, two different occasions.
I can perfectly see that the occasion mentioned in Matthew happens before the occasion in Mark.
As in Matthew he tells them they will see a sign and he explains it to them, but then they still come back and ask him to reveal a sign as mentioned in Mark - but this time he refuses.
Upvote
0
Religions are only as good as its people, & guess what? People change. Catholics had their Inquistion. Prostestants had their own witch hunts. Hitler was a follower of Martin Luther. Martin Luther was an anti-Semite (do a search on "The Jews & Their Lies" by Martin Luther).NOTW said:
BTW, I was speaking as a Christian.
Upvote
0
Hello. Is there a need for Islam? Is there a need for any religion? Why, of course there is for your religion is your identity and your religion sets grounds for your relationship with God. I must say that Islam for me brought peace and comfort. Islam teaches a proper way to "submit to God". Islam teaches us that repentance must be done often for we are all sinners. Islam teaches that God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful and that God will never treat His servants(mankind) with injustice. Islam teaches us to strive in the way of God. Islam teaches us to depend on God for ALL needs....eating, drinking, blinking your eyes, using your fingers, etc. Islam teaches that there is no person that can save us from the Hellfire but rather we must be righteous and do good deeds to be successful. Islam teaches us that our purpose in life is not to buy a house, or play ball, or be rich but rather ONLY TO WORSHIP GOD. Islam teaches us that their is ONLY ONE GOD and that HE has no need for partners or children. Islam teaches us that those who worship partners along with God will enter Hell. Islam teaches us that marriage is important. Islam teaches us that learning about God is important. Islam teaches us of the beautiful blessings of learning the Qur'an and of reciting it often. Islam teaches us that we respect all prophets and messengers of God & there were over 144,000. Islam teaches us supplications to recite in times of need. Islam teaches us that Satan is an avowed enemy and that we should seek refuge in God from him. Islam teaches that Jesus(the peace of God be upon him) was no more of a man who ate, drank, slept, prayed, & was tempted by Satan just as all other humans. Islam teaches Jesus(p) was not killed on a cross because God is the Most Merciful of All and that God has more power than needing to create a man to save all mankind. Islam teaches that the God of Abraham(p) was not Jesus(p). Nor was the God of Noah, Jonah, Jacob, David, etc....
I could continue to go on & on about what Islam has taught me. Now out of common courtesy can you politely explain to me what Christianity has taught you? And furthermore, explain to me the Trinity. And explain to me how you determine to whom you send your prayers. Do you send them to God the Father whom destroyed the people of Pharoah in the flood? Or do you pray to Jesus(p) whom you call your Lord and profess died on the cross?
I could continue to go on & on about what Islam has taught me. Now out of common courtesy can you politely explain to me what Christianity has taught you? And furthermore, explain to me the Trinity. And explain to me how you determine to whom you send your prayers. Do you send them to God the Father whom destroyed the people of Pharoah in the flood? Or do you pray to Jesus(p) whom you call your Lord and profess died on the cross?
Upvote
0
rahul_sharma said:
you are welcome also to offer in this thread what opinion, if any, Hinduism offers in respect to the following topics:
1. oneness of humanity and racism
2. tolerance of other religions
3. value of education and pursuit of knowledge
4. respect for and gaurdianship of the environment
bear in mind this is only the beginning, if you join please provide references in your scripture.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
