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The simple answer is no, all three persons are equally God
Longer answer:At the risk of hijacking the thread, all conservative Christians agree on the ontological Trinity. To quote the Athanasian Creed:
What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.
The Father is uncreated,
the Son is uncreated,
the Holy Spirit is uncreated.
However, the O.P. may be alluding to debate in Protestant circles about the economic Trinity. Are the Son and the Holy Spirit subservient to the Father? And if so, in what way?
When Jesus says in John 5:19: "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing," do those words also apply to the pre-incarnate Logos, or only to the incarnate Jesus?
When we say, with the Creed, "the Holy Spirit ... proceeds from the Father," does that imply subservience or hierarchy of some kind?
I, for one, would certainly be interested in the Orthodox view on this.
I was going to say that this is the Orthodox forum but then I remembered that this is the debate section lolAt the risk of hijacking the thread, all conservative Christians agree on the ontological Trinity. To quote the Athanasian Creed:
What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.
The Father is uncreated,
the Son is uncreated,
the Holy Spirit is uncreated.
However, the O.P. may be alluding to debate in Protestant circles about the economic Trinity. Are the Son and the Holy Spirit subservient to the Father? And if so, in what way?
When Jesus says in John 5:19: "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing," do those words also apply to the pre-incarnate Logos, or only to the incarnate Jesus?
When we say, with the Creed, "the Holy Spirit ... proceeds from the Father," does that imply subservience or hierarchy of some kind?
I, for one, would certainly be interested in the Orthodox view on this.
I was going to say that this is the Orthodox forum but then I remembered that this is the debate section lol
Yeah, I was expecting Fr. Matt or someone else to come, maybe he is busy.And I was explicit that I wanted Orthodox views. I have edited my post to make that even more explicit.
Sorry again about hijacking your question. I was really, really interested in the answer, but early replies seemed to me to be interpreting it in an unhelpful way.
only in terms of causality, and not of authority or power. the Father is the uncaused cause of the Son (begotten) and the Spirit (procession).
In terms of my expansion of the OP's question, does that mean when Jesus says in John 5:19: "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing," those words do not apply to the pre-incarnate Logos, but only to the incarnate Jesus?
(I'm just trying to get a handle on the Orthodox view here)
yes, because there is only one Son.
I did not intend to offend anyone with my post. If I did I am very sorry, I respect everyone right to their own Theology, I was only attempting to answer a question and frankly I did not notice what section of the site I was on.If so how is it set up?
I'm afraid I didn't quite understand that.
In Orthodox theology, is the Son "eternally subservient" to the Father in any way, or not?
In Protestant theology, those who deny "eternally subservience of the Son" do so precisely by trying to distinguish the pre-incarnate Logos from Jesus.
(no doubt I'm making the very common mistake of trying to map Orthodox theology on to a Protestant spectrum when in fact it's fundamentally different in nature)
in a sense, yes, but not because the Father has authority over the Son.
Thank you. That doesn't 100% answer my question, but it does agree with what I happen to believe, so that's encouraging.
Isn't "uncaused caused" contradictory or maybe I am not understanding the meaning.only in terms of causality, and not of authority or power. the Father is the uncaused cause of the Son (begotten) and the Spirit (procession).
That's than interesting idea. So sharing the same will avoids any kind of unequal subordination?well, He is subservient to the Father in the sense that from before creation, that's what the Son willed. but it's not that the Father forces or orders the Son to do anything.
Isn't "uncaused caused" contradictory or maybe I am not understanding the meaning.
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