IS THE WILL OF HUMANS CONTROLLED BY GOD?

[Francis Drake]

Certain people try to steal from God by making either repentance and/or belief a work of man (the claimed choice toward God is a work),

Yet more of your doctrines of demons.
Let's narrow this down, show us one piece of scripture that describes a man's choice of surrendering to God is a "work".

 

[Francis Drake]

So Eve had no choice but to screw up and God had no choice but to banish them for His actions?

That's what @Kermos has been shoving down our throats throughout the thread.

But if the power to decide who repents resides exclusively with Kermos's god, then that same god must have created man deliberately programmed to depravity.
Thus Kermos's Calvinist god is entirely responsible for all the evil and depravity in the world.

I'm just glad I don't worship the same evil god as Kermos.

 

[BNR32FAN]

John the Apostle recorded where the Word of God lovingly states "I have called you friends" (John 15:15) is surrounded by the Word of God's explanation of The True Vine (John 15:1-6) prior to the "friends" passage along with God choosing men not men choosing God specification (John 15:16-19) after the "friends" passage; meanwhile, many people in their daring self will claim to choose Jesus (2 Peter 2:9-10), yet their words ("accepting Jesus" or some such) convey that they are no friend of Jesus because they deny the "you" in John 15:16 applies to them, so the "you" in John 15:15 does not apply to them; in other words, since those self willed people reject the "you" in "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) then it follows that the "you" in the immediately previous sentence spoken by Jesus "I have called you friends" (John 15:15) is rejected by those same self willed people. Since the Word of God says "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) in the prior passage which includes fruit (actions), then Lord Jesus is already with us believers to "do what I command you" (John 15:14); therefore, for a person to be a friend of Jesus such requires that Jesus does the choosing alone. Persons in their self will are no friends of Jesus.

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8)!

You’ll never truly understand God’s word if you continue to ignore the scriptures that contradict your theology.

 

[Kermos]

"Daughter, take courage; your faith has made you well" such are the Word of God (Matthew 9:22); on the other hand, "I put my faith in Jesus" such are the words of the daring self-willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10). Faith/Belief wields a person; on the other hand, a person does not wield faith/belief. Every occurrance of "your faith" in the New Testament is truly "the faith of you" in the Greek; therefore, Lord Jesus says "Daughter, take courage; the faith of you has made you well", and "the faith of you" rings like "the God of you". "The faith of you" directly integrates to the King of Glory saying "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29); therefore, faith/belief is the work of God in persons to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent. God imputes faith/belief into persons, and "God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16) illuminates that the God given faith/belief is eternal Life in the Son of God; on the other hand, "I put my faith in Jesus" exhibits the self-willed persons claimed choice toward God which Lord Jesus says is impossible with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16, Matthew 19:25-26), so the self-willed persons daringly does not act on Jesus Christ's words (Matthew 7:21-23, Matthew 7:26-27).

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8)!

 

[BNR32FAN]

"Daughter, take courage; your faith has made you well" such are the Word of God (Matthew 9:22); on the other hand, "I put my faith in Jesus" such are the words of the daring self-willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10). Faith/Belief wields a person; on the other hand, a person does not wield faith/belief. Every occurrance of "your faith" in the New Testament is truly "the faith of you" in the Greek; therefore, Lord Jesus says "Daughter, take courage; the faith of you has made you well", and "the faith of you" rings like "the God of you". "The faith of you" directly integrates to the King of Glory saying "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29); therefore, faith/belief is the work of God in persons to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent. God imputes faith/belief into persons, and "God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16) illuminates that the God given faith/belief is eternal Life in the Son of God; on the other hand, "I put my faith in Jesus" exhibits the self-willed persons claimed choice toward God which Lord Jesus says is impossible with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16, Matthew 19:25-26), so the self-willed persons daringly does not act on Jesus Christ's words (Matthew 7:21-23, Matthew 7:26-27).

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8)!

Why did Jesus give Jezebel time to repent?

 

[Francis Drake]

"Daughter, take courage; your faith has made you well" such are the Word of God (Matthew 9:22); on the other hand, "I put my faith in Jesus" such are the words of the daring self-willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Anyone who responds to the gospel makes a daring choice to think different, daring choice to repent from their former life.

Faith/Belief wields a person; on the other hand, a person does not wield faith/belief. Every occurrance of "your faith" in the New Testament is truly "the faith of you" in the Greek; therefore, Lord Jesus says "Daughter, take courage; the faith of you has made you well", and "the faith of you" rings like "the God of you".

It rings like nothing of the sort. There is no "The God of you" anywhere in that scripture and you are provably doing exactly what you accuse everyone else on this thread, adding to and twisting scripture.
It is clearly the woman's own faith that Jesus complements. Paul demonstrates below who is responsible for applying his faith.
1Thes5v8But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
I think all normal people reading the above would see that it is we who put on the breastplate of Faith, and we do it by choice.

Paul returns to the same theme in Ephesians, again making it obvious that it is each one of us who must take up the armour. Whether we do or not remains our free choice.
Eph6v13Because of this, take up the whole armor of God, so that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all things, to stand.
Who is responsible for taking up the armour of God? Clearly it is us and not God.

14Stand therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
Who is responsible for girding his loins and putting on the breastplate? Clearly not God.

15and having shod the feet with the readiness of the gospel of peace; 16above all, take up the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the flaming arrows of the wicked one.
Who is responsible for taking the shield of Faith? Clearly not God.

 

[Kermos]

According to God, we believers in Jesus the Christ acknowledge and confess Jesus is "I AM" (Proverbs 3:5-6, Matthew 16:16, John 8:58); on the other hand, according to the self-willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10), the daring persons choose to change some faith inside themselves to point at Jesus. Such self willed persons deny the Word of God Who says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) and the apostles who say "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance [that leads] to life" (Acts 11:18). In a deadly way, the self willed persons deny the Word of God rules exclusively in the salvation of men for the Word of God declares "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" John 15:19). The daring self willed people tacitly deny God, and the Word of God says "whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 10:33).

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8)!

 

[Inkfingers]

Amen to that, but is it just to severely punish the fish for failing to meet impossible expectations? Expectations that the fish is, according to Calvin’s theology, completely incapable of meeting and completely incapable of influencing the fisherman’s decision to help the fish?

Well, if you accept that a certain person is the Lord and Creator of all creation, rather than persisting in the sin of Eden and thinking that we ourselves are gods, you get to avoid the punishment.

Almost as if God on the cross was saying "No, this is my responsibility, and if you accept that rather than continuing to think yourselves gods (and thus thinking yourselves responsible), then you get salvation...but if you persist in treating yourself as the god of this world, and thus responsible, you get to pay the price".

 

[Kermos]

God expresses the impossiblility for man to be saved apart from the act of God while God leaves no degree of latitude for something such as man's choice towards God (Matthew 19:25-26); on the other hand, the self-willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) claim to do the impossible in their exercising volition in their claimed choice toward God; otherwise, under certain self-willed person's theology such persons not making the choice towards God face eternal punishment, so, tacitly, under their theology they have earned to be saved - they have saved themselves apart from the grace God - under their theology that promotes the unscriptural choice towards God. They deny the Creator of the new creation

People in imaginary free will attack like brute beasts the very Word of God Who declares His exclusive essential quality in man's salvation (Matthew 19:25-26, John 15:1-19). There is no indication in the New Testament of a concrete form of free will, only a single illusory mention of free will in Philemon 1:14.

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8)!

 

[timothyu]

Jesus and others in the Bible set the example of willingly putting the will of the Father ahead of their own. It was only then that anyone's lives could be led by God. They weren't doing His work. He was doing His work through them. His work would benefit others before self.

 

[Kermos]

"It is disagreeable in my sight to believe the LORD Who declares God chooses man not man chooses God unto salvation and sanctification" (John 15:16-19, "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD" [Joshua 24:15]) says the self-willed person (2 Peter 2:9-10), so that leaves only false gods for the choosing by the self willed person (John 15:16-19, "choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living" [Joshua 24:15]), Lord Jesus declares that His House serves the LORD (Matthew 21:13 and John 10:27-30, "as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD" [Joshua 24:15]). Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19); therefore, all the "choosing" is God's alone with respect to the saving grace upon man!

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8)!

 

[Francis Drake]

deleted

 

[Kermos]

Isaiah the Prophet declared of the coming Christ "by His wounds we are healed" (Isaiah 53:5) which is a testament to the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) in the deliverance of man by God from the wrath of God (Matthew 19:25-26, John 15:1-19, God is our believer's merciful Benefactor, and we believers are unworthy beneficiaries (post in this thread)); in stark contrast, self willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) claim to heal themselves in their claimed choice of God for which they claim that God must comply with their work of a choice; on the other hand, we sheep of the Risen Christ are healed by His wounds, and this is Christian confession.

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8)!

 

[Francis Drake]

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
(Before I start, I want to make it absolutely clear that salvation, whether Old or New Testament, would never be possible without the shed blood of Jesus.)

So yet again, Jesus's teaching on blasphemy against the Holy Spirit demonstrates that man has freewill.
Matt12v31Because of this I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men; but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32And if anyone speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but if anyone speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, neither in this age nor in the coming one.
The above passage is utterly pointless if God makes the choice for man. It shows that if we reject the son of man, or reject the cross, it is quite forgivable (despite what evangelists preach).
In contrast, if we continue rejecting (blaspheming) the Holy Spirit, we will remain unforgiven and unregenerate.
Nowhere does it say the choice belongs to God for who blasphemes or who gets forgiven.

Paul also states that nobody can understand what the cross is about, till they are already being saved.
1Cor1v18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
In the above verse, "those who are perishing" simply refers to men who are spiritually dead.
So if the message of the cross is foolishness to the spiritually dead, to understand the message of the cross, they must first have been born again by other means.
So how does anyone get born again? The answer is quite simple really, by surrendering to God as the Holy Spirit works on our heart to convict us. Again, our choice alone.

Romans1v18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven upon all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth by unrighteousness,
If mankind actively suppresses the truth of God, it must already have been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit

19because that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God has revealed it to them.
So God has already been made manifest to every man, making rejection their own responsibility

20For from the creation of the world His invisible qualities, both His eternal power and divinity, are clearly seen, being understood by the things made, for them to be without excuse.
The simple fact of life is that anyone who denies the creator God is a liar, and at the judgement will have no excuse.

The evidence of God is in the whole of creation. The Holy Spirit constantly draws our attention to God, and once we open our hearts to him, that newness of life comes to birth.
Understanding the power of God through the cross is reserved till after we become spiritually alive.

 

[Francis Drake]

Isaiah the Prophet declared of the coming Christ "by His wounds we are healed" (Isaiah 53:5) which is a testament to the Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) in the deliverance of man by God from the wrath of God (Matthew 19:25-26, John 15:1-19, God is our believer's merciful Benefactor, and we believers are unworthy beneficiaries (post in this thread)); in stark contrast, self willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) claim to heal themselves in their claimed choice of God for which they claim that God must comply with their work of a choice; on the other hand, we sheep of the Risen Christ are healed by His wounds, and this is Christian confession.

You really are straining at gnats and swallowing camels Kermos.
There's no way we believe that childish drivel you keep laying at our door.

But heyho, you've got all freewill in the world to make false accusations at your brothers who love God.
Keep digging that hole my friend.

 

[Kermos]

The Prophet Jeremiah declares "the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked" (Jeremiah 17:9), but self willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) claim to "open their heart to Jesus" thus to "let" Him into their heart, but such a person's heart is "deceitful above all things", so such a person has not "opened their heart to Jesus"; on the other hand, the Prophet Ezekiel declares "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh" (Ezekiel 36:26) which testifies of the coming Christ (John 1:15) and the act of God with the new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17) with the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 3:3-8, John 16:7-14). It is impossible for the self willed person to choose God with the desperately wicked heart (Matthew 19:25-26) because an act of God inserting a new heart is required for Lord Jesus Christ's sheep (John 3:3-8, John 10:27-30).

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8)!

 

[timothyu]

The will of man is controlled by the will of other man. Is that not evil?

 

[Kermos]

Holy means "set apart". Christ means Messiah means anointed. Lord Jesus Christ is the Holy One of God (John 6:69). Jesus is the Set Apart Anointed King of the Kingdom of God. It is written "Do not touch My anointed ones, And do My prophets no harm." (1 Chronicles 16:22, Psalm 105:15), but self willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) claim to touch God's Anointed One Jesus with their free will choice of grabbing Jesus while they are in their first nature (post in this thread); additionally, the self willed persons try to harm the Word of God Prophet Jesus Who says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19) as they contradict Jesus in their unrighteous claim of choosing Jesus thus the self willed persons revile angelic majesties (2 Peter 2:9-10).

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8)!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Definitely not. I’m not sure why you and the other man think I said that.

Because of all that you quote in isolation below. I’m pretty sure as to why you don’t see that this is certainly your view.

“Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:20-21‬ ‭KJV
“Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭13:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The powers he is speaking of is the principalities and powers of darkness, even the political power ruled by Satan. He says submit to those powers because they have their place.

How come Jesus didn’t submit to the wind but rebuked it. He rebuked demons as well not submitting to their will.

The enemy is the agent of wrath God uses to pour out judgement and when we submit to God’s order then we submit to God. If a criminal resists arrest he fights God. If a righteous man resists the devil he will flee. The righteous is freed from the law, but the one in condemnation has one who accuses him of his fault.

Ah but the righteous man is not submitting as you suggest we ought to do. So which is the will of God, resisting the enemy or submitting to him.

“For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.””
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:17‬ ‭NASB‬‬


“Thus says the LORD to Cyrus His anointed, Whom I have taken by the right hand, To subdue nations before him And to loose the loins of kings; To open doors before him so that gates will not be shut: “I will go before you and make the rough places smooth; I will shatter the doors of bronze and cut through their iron bars.

I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other, The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭45:1-2, 5-7‬ ‭NASB‬‬

See you believe what you claim you don’t.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

May your words fall to the ground and never produce fruit because you seek your own planting.

God is the one who decides what vessel He will make for His pleasure. Cursed be your words forever until the day you hear and speak the word of God. May you never give any direction to a man unless prompted by God.


“And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭9:25‬ ‭KJV

This would have been deleted on a site where justice ruled decisions.