IS THE WILL OF HUMANS CONTROLLED BY GOD?

[timothyu]

But how do we put God's will before our own, thus loving all as self?

By doing as Jesus said. Repent/change our allegiance and nature from the will of man to the will of God. It's quite easy to reject being self centered thus putting the focus on serving others rather than seeking gain at their expense. Man's self serving ways lead to trouble/sin. God's way leads us out of it.

 

[CharismaticLady]

change our allegiance and nature from the will of man to the will of God

How? By will-power?

 

[timothyu]

How? By will-power?

No. By common sense. If we keep serving self and taking what is not ours to take, be it by theft, adultery, etc.we create chaos. God's way of putting others first removes those repercussions as there is no more seeking gain at another's expense. Wisdom of God. And a child can learn that. Adults are retrained to forget. Be like a child if you want to enter the Kingdom.

 

[CharismaticLady]

No. By common sense. If we keep serving self and taking what is not ours to take, be it by theft, adultery, etc.we create chaos. God's way of putting others first removes those repercussions as there is no more seeking gain at another's expense. Wisdom of God. And a child can learn that. Adults are retrained to forget. Be like a child if you want to enter the Kingdom.

will power and common sense have the same source. Self. That is works. That is still Old Covenant.

 

[timothyu]

will power and common sense have the same source. Self. That is works.

Works seek payment/gain. Giving of oneself instead of taking receives no payment.

Common sense is understanding the difference between the two natures, God's and man's, and choosing which to follow. God used the whole Bible to show us the difference and the results of each. Who's system is better?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Works seek payment/gain. Giving of oneself instead of taking receives no payment.

Common sense is understanding the difference between the two natures, God's and man's, and choosing which to follow. God used the whole Bible to show us the difference and the results of each. Who's system is better?

How do we become partakers of God's nature? What does He have that we don't?

 

[timothyu]

How do we become partakers of God's nature? What does He have that we don't?

Selflessness.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Selflessness.

How do we obtain selflessness?

 

[timothyu]

How do we obtain selflessness?

Never successfully with our dual nature always in conflict but understanding which way is better and why, is a good start in seeking to emulate the examples Jesus gave us who rejected the will of man and did only the will of the Father. It is a matter of allegiance. Be hated by the world of man for not playing by it's rules, OR be rejected by the Kingdom for preferring the ways of man. Grain and tares are each know by their fruits. What is better respected in this world (as an example)? The Red Cross or armies? Why?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Never successfully with our dual nature always in conflict but understanding which way is better and why, is a good start in seeking to emulate the examples Jesus gave us who rejected the will of man and did only the will of the Father.

What you described is Romans 7. What is changed in Romans 8 that makes all the difference in the world?

 

[timothyu]

What is added in Romans 8 that makes all the difference in the world?

Which is also what i said in practical terms.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Which is also what i said in practical terms.

This can't be described in practical terms. What you described is the result. It is the number one difference between the HOW we keep the laws of the Old Covenant, and HOW we now fulfill the righteous requirements of the law.

Unfortunately this emphasis is not taught in some denominations. You are "non-denominational" but every Protestant church has influences. Is your church Charismatic or Cessationist? If Cessationist, that is the reason you are struggling with the answer. They depend on knowledge, self and their own willpower. Whereas, Charismatics depend on their source outside of themselves. What is it? It answers all the 'how' questions.

 

[timothyu]

No struggling here. Clearly aligned with the Kingdom and not religious philosophy (theology)

New and Old?? Think about the days of the 10 commandments. That whole era was like training a dog. This good, that bad. The people who wrote the books and the people who read them were like the dogs. They learned good/bad but did not question why. They were very basic models of dumbed down humanity.

Along comes Jesus with a superior mind and ability to think. He stood out, especially in contrast with the dog trainer priests who were trained dogs themselves, the blind leading the blind. A lot of what Jesus taught went right over the heads of the dog people but they seemed to grasp He was at least different especially because He showed by example what give was compared to take, so they could compare it to the ways of man. He didn't teach them to sit and roll over but why it was advantageous to do so compared to their traditional ways of doing things and expecting a treat from God.

This worked for a short time until of course the gentiles basically went back to the old dog training ways of do this and never mind why, and the blind once again lead the blind. Thankfully the Gospel of the Kingdom remained all but ignored in scripture.

 

[timothyu]

Whereas, Charismatics depend on their source outside of themselves. What is it?

Jesus said to those followers of the Gospel of the Kingdom that the HS would come and help keep them on the path of the Kingdom rather than falling back to the wayside and the world of man.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Jesus said to those followers of the Gospel of the Kingdom that the HS would come and help keep them on the path of the Kingdom rather than falling back to the wayside and the world of man.

Finally! But it is not His Spirit on the outside of us, but on the INSIDE. He is the difference between a toy without a battery, and a toy with the energizer bunny inside!

Romans 8:9 For we are not in the flesh (Romans 7), but in the Spirit (Romans 8) if the Spirit of God indwells us. Anyone without the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Him.

 

[timothyu]

Finally! But it is not His Spirit on the outside of us, but on the INSIDE. He is the difference between a toy without a battery, and a toy with the energizer bunny inside!

God has always been inside us. We just refused to activate Him and let Him work through us, preferring to run our own shows. As a result He would not partake in our self serving schemes. Bu t as Eve chose to turn Him off, we must chose to turn Him on again. God is within. But the HS serves another purpose.

 

[CharismaticLady]

That is why I am a Charismatic. It is all Jesus, no self.

 

[timothyu]

That is why I am a Charismatic. It is all Jesus, no self.

What do you expect as a result?

 

[CharismaticLady]

God has always been inside us. We just refused to activate Him and let Him works through us, preferring to run our own shows. Hence the self vs selflessness conflict. Bu t as Eve chose to turn Him off, we must chose to turn Him on again.

Not true. You almost had it a few posts back when you mentioned repentance. I was in church for 30 years before the Spirit went from Him on the outside drawing me to want to be scrubbed clean of all trace of sin and truly repenting and acknowledging that my nature is weak, to Jesus answering my cry with His gift of the Holy Spirit on the inside and making me born again with a completely NEW NATURE. The difference was night and day.

 

[CharismaticLady]

What do you expect as a result?

To be a partaker of the divine nature that hates sin and loves righteousness. That is when we can truly love with the agape love of God, and not just a human kind of love.