Is the thousand years of Revelation chapter 20 symbolic?

[Timtofly]

Show us some scripture to back this theory up. I have never heard this before.

I gave you the verses. They are found in Revelation, as the opening of the book is the main theme of Revelation. There was no covenant made with Satan. All covenants are between God and humanity.

All we seem to be taught today is hundreds of years of human theology. Most of the church has listened to Satan. That is why she is called a harlot. 2 Thessalonians 2 states even the elect may be deceived. Yes there are saved people being taught wrong in all forms of human religious cultures. That does not mean God and the Holy Spirit cannot get through and no one can be saved. Humans all over the world have been led from darkness into the glory of God's Atonement.

 

[Zao is life]

The people living on earth whose names have not been written in the Book of Life since the founding of the world will be astounded to see the beast that once was, now is not, but is to appear. True: they are sinners with NO spiritual discernment.

Revelation 5 explains it has not been opened. WHAT has not been opened? The book with 7 seals? You don't understand John's Chronology. That was a vision out of John's past: a time while Jesus was on earth, then under the earth, then rose from the dead, then ascended, then got the book. So of course at the moment Jesus got the book, no seals were opened. But He got that book around 32 AD, as soon as He ascended, and immediately started opening seals. WHY? Because the seals MUST BE OPENED so that the BOOK can be OPENED so that Satan can be kicked off His throne. Rev. 6 explains which seals have been opened and which are future to us today. Just so you know, the first 5 seals were opened long ago, but the 6th seal is future: the start of the Day of the Lord.

Anyway, sending out the church with the gospel would have been ILLEGAL until SOMEONE could open that first seal.

This Book of Life is the only sealed book having anything to do with the Atonement. Is was sealed because all are under the Atonement, but not all would accept the Atonement. God is not a respector of humanity when it comes to the Atonement. Show us some scripture to back this theory up. I have never heard this before.

If you just read, what happens when the BOOK gets opened so that the trumpets can sound? What happens with the final trumpet? It is HUGE - one of the highlights of the entire book: SATAN is kicked off his throne! He has been the god of this world since Adam. But WHY does this happen at the 7th trumpet? It is because Adam's "earth lease" expires. This book sealed with 7 seals is the lease document of earth: created in heaven probably before Adam.

None of these verses prove the spirit is not in God's presence. You are equating the spirit with the air we breath. But the spirit we were created with was the glory of God. Not just air.

It is the soul that goes to Paradise. Where else would those in Christ go at physical death? Those who are dead in their sin, their soul goes to sheol.

Once again the spirit is the glory of God, and Adam's descendants lost that glory. Instead we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of God. The spirit is not our life breadth. That some interpret us asking God to accept our life breath is not the same as the spirit God created those with, on the 6th day as sons of God in the full glory of God. Genesis 2 clearly states that God’s breadth made the sons of God living beings. We are born in Adam's image and likeness without God's glory. Without the Holy Spirit we are spiritually dead. Even our spirit has to leave God's presence and becomes a demon.

I've only seen scripture implying that when Adam was created, he had a body and a soul - but when the Spirit of God breathed life into him, he became a living soul:

Genesis 2:7
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed [ nâphach ] into his nostrils the breath [ neshâmâh ] of life; and man became a living soul [nephesh]."

Jesus said,
John 3:7
"That which is born (γεννάω [gennáō]) of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born (γεννάω gennáō) of the Spirit ( πνεῦμα [pneûma] ) is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born (Greek: γεννάω [gennáō]) from above (Greek: ἄνωθεν [ánōthen])."

I don't believe Adam was created without a soul, because when Adam sinned, though he died spiritually, losing his "spiritual life-line" to the Spirit of God, Adam was still body and soul. I believe it is the human soul that went to sheol/hades at physical death:

Acts 2:26-27
Therefore my heart rejoiced and my tongue was glad; and also My flesh shall rest in hope, because You will not leave My soul in Hades, nor will You allow Your holy One to see corruption.

I believe it's the souls of those who (like Noah and Abraham), believed God and it was counted to them for righteousness, that were found in "Abraham's bosom" (until Christ died and rose again, taking those souls that were in Abraham's bosom with Him to heaven).

However, those who died in Christ are not in heaven in their bodies until the resurrection, and all references to the resurrection in the New Testament are references to the resurrection of the body (Greek: σῶμα sōma) from the dead, without exception.

THE NOUN: ἀνάστασις (anástasis) It's found in many passages - always in reference to the resurrection of the body from the dead (for example):- Matthew 22:23 & 28 & 30 & 31; Matthew 27:53; Mark 12:18, 23; Luke 2:34; Luke 14:14; Luke 20:27 & 33 & 35 & 36; John 5:29; John 11:24 & 25; Acts 1:22; Acts 2:31; Acts 4:2; Acts 4:33; Acts 17:18 & 32; Acts 23:6 & 8; Acts 24:15 & 21; Acts 26:23; Romans 1:4; Romans 6:5; 1 Corinthians 15:12, 13, 21, 42; Philippians 3:10, 11; 2 Tim 2:18; Hebrews 6:2; Hebrews 11:35; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 Peter 3:21; Revelation 20:5 & 6.

THE VERBS:- Note: These words are not always used in reference to the resurrection: Sometimes they are used in reference to great leaders being "raised up" for specific purposes; and sometimes they are used when people are instructed to "rise up, and depart" from certain places; and sometimes they are used for people being raised from sleep (when the "sleep" is not referring to death but merely normal sleep). However, the context of the verse and the passage the words appear in, always shows very clearly and unambiguously when the verbs are referring to rising again from death/the resurrection - and in each and every case, whenever the words are references to the resurrection, they are references to the resurrection of the body from death:-

(i) ἐγείρω (egeírō)
probably akin to the base of G58 (through the idea of collecting one's faculties); to waken (transitively or intransitively), i.e. rouse (literally, from sleep, from sitting or lying, from disease, from death; or figuratively, from obscurity, inactivity, ruins, nonexistence):--awake, lift (up), raise (again, up), rear up, (a-)rise (again, up), stand, take up.

There is a very long list of New Testament verses which use the word ἐγείρω (egeírō) in reference to the resurrection, and in each and every case, the verse is a reference to the resurrection of the body from the dead.

(ii) ἀνίστημι anístēmi
to stand up (literal or figurative, transitive or intransitive):--arise, lift up, raise up (again), rise (again), stand up(-right)

Whenever the word ἀνίστημι anístēmi is found in reference to the resurrection, the verse is a reference to the resurrection of the body from the dead.

An example where the verb [ ἀνίστημι (anístēmi) ] and the noun (ἀνάστασις anástasis) are both found in the same passage, where the context is the resurrection of the body from the dead:

John 11:23-26
"Jesus said to her, Your brother shall rise again [ἀνίστημι anístēmi]. Martha said to Him, I know that he shall rise again [ἀνίστημι anístēmi] in the resurrection [ἀνάστασις anastasis] at the last day. Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection [ἀνάστασις anastasis] and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"

Remember: Those who who are born from above by the Spirit of Christ are spiritually alive in Christ. It is the Spirit of God breathing life into us so that we become living souls.

Examples where the verb [ ἐγείρω (egeirō) ] and the noun (ἀνάστασις anástasis) are both found in the same passage, where the context is the resurrection of the body from the dead:-

1 Cor 15:12-15
"Now if Christ be preached that he rose [ ἐγείρω (egeirō) ] from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection [ ἀνάστασις (anastasis) ] of the dead?

But if there be no resurrection [ ἀνάστασις (anastasis) ] of the dead, then is Christ not risen [ ἐγείρω (egeirō) ].

And if Christ be not risen [ ἐγείρω (egeirō) ], then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up [ ἐγείρω (egeirō) ] Christ: whom he raised [ ἐγείρω (egeirō) ] not up, if so be that the dead rise [ ἐγείρω (egeirō) ] not."

1 Corinthians 12:20-23
“But now is Christ risen [ ἐγείρω (egeirō) ] from the dead, and become the fristfruits [ ἀπαρχή (aparchē) ] of them that slept (koimaō)

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection (anastasis) of the dead.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive [ ζωοποιέω, ( zōopoieō) ].

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits (aparchē); afterward (epeita) they that are Christ’s at his coming (perousia).”

Risen with Christ (Greek) συνεγείρω synegeírō

When syn appears prefixed to egeírō (synegeírō), it shows that the resurrection of the individual believer in Christ is something which occurs with Christ's resurrection. It's the same prefix we get with words like synthesis and synchronize. Compare this fact with Romans 6:5:

"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"

This is also why Jesus' resurrection is called the first resurrection, and also the first-fruits of the resurrection.

I personally believe it is not correct to talk about the spirit of man going either to be with Christ (those who are born from above) or to hades (or "hell" for those who insist on that doctrine) at the time of physical death - it's the soul that is no longer joined to the body. It's the souls of saints who are seen in the Revelation "clothed in fine linen".

They are clothed in fine linen because we are clothed with Christ having been born from above by the Spirit of Christ.

Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. But rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in gehenna.

It is the Spirit of Christ in Adam (in man) that makes man a living soul. I believe that man has no spirit aside from the Spirit of Christ dwelling in him IF he has been born from above by the Spirit and has become a living soul.

Sometimes it becomes confused because we see for example
1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit (πνεῦμα pneûma) of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit (πνεῦμα pneûma) of God.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you, and may your whole spirit (πνεῦμα pneûma) and soul (ψυχή psychḗ ) and body (σῶμα sōma) be preserved blameless to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

However the word "whole" = ὁλόκληρος holóklēros, and it means: "complete in every part, i.e. perfectly sound (in body):--entire, whole."

Therefore it's the same as saying, "May you be preserved complete in body, soul and Spirit" - it's still the Spirit of God dwelling in the born-again person, and sanctifying and preserving him or her.

So I believe that without the Spirit of God, man born of the flesh has a body and a soul - and it's the Spirit of God breathing life into him when he is born of the Spirit from above, causing him to become a living soul.

 

[Zao is life]

The last trumpet is the end of the world. You cannot get around that. You are fighting with the scriptures again.

It's at the end of the age, in the Greek text. It's not the end of the world. It's the end of the age.

 

[sovereigngrace]

It's at the end of the age, in the Greek text. It's not the end of the world. It's the end of the age.

Same thing. Read the Book!!!

 

[Zao is life]

Same thing. Read the Book!!!

I do. Thank goodness I don't interpret the book in the "light" of a theological sand castle a.k.a "Amillennialism" which has been erected on the sea's side of the high tide mark waiting to be washed away at the appearance of Christ. I allow the book to say what it says without re-interpreting it in the "light" of theological sand castles.

 

[sovereigngrace]

I do. Thank goodness I don't interpret the book in the "light" of a theological sand castle a.k.a "Amillennialism" which has been erected on the sea's side of the high tide mark waiting to be washed away at the appearance of Christ. I allow the book to say what it says without re-interpreting it in the "light" of theological sand castles.

As usual, all you voice is your opinions. The mistake you make is to interpret the rest of Scripture by your opinion of one lone highly-symbolic much-debated chapter in scripture. The evidence of the error of your position is the fact you lack any corroboration for every tenet of Premil. All you have is your private opinion of one chapter.

If I am wrong, please provide me with clear corroboration for these main tenets:

1. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that there are two distinct physical resurrection days (the first for the righteous, the second for the wicked) separated by a literal 1000 years+?

2. Where in Scripture does it mention "resurrection days" (plural), pertaining to the end?

3. What Scripture (including Revelation 20) do you consider definitely teaches there are two distinct future judgement days (that will see all mankind stand before Christ to give account for their lives) separated by a literal 1000 years+?

4. Where in Scripture does it mention "judgement days" (plural), in regard to the end?

5. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that Satan will be bound for a time-span of 1000 years after the Second Advent, then released for a "little season" to deceive the nations, and then destroy them?

 

[Zao is life]

As usual, all you voice is your opinions. The mistake you make is to interpret the rest of Scripture by your opinion of one lone highly-symbolic much-debated chapter in scripture. The evidence of the error of your position is the fact you lack any corroboration for every tenet of Premil. All you have is your private opinion of one chapter.

If I am wrong, please provide me with clear corroboration for these main tenets:

1. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that there are two distinct physical resurrection days (the first for the righteous, the second for the wicked) separated by a literal 1000 years+?

2. Where in Scripture does it mention "resurrection days" (plural), pertaining to the end?

3. What Scripture (including Revelation 20) do you consider definitely teaches there are two distinct future judgement days (that will see all mankind stand before Christ to give account for their lives) separated by a literal 1000 years+?

4. Where in Scripture does it mention "judgement days" (plural), in regard to the end?

5. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that Satan will be bound for a time-span of 1000 years after the Second Advent, then released for a "little season" to deceive the nations, and then destroy them?

It's the same scriptures which you always re-interpret "in the light" of your theological sand castle titled "Amillennialism" which is erected on the sea's side of the high tide mark - the very scriptures that though they appear in the Bible, and have been quoted to you a myriad times, you simply re-interpret each time in the "light" of your error - your theological sand castle which you have placed above scripture in your mind, without even realizing it, because you remain blinded by the same sand castles.

Scripture mentions more than one resurrection, and I know where it does. I'm not going to tell you, though, because you've been told a myriad times by many people, and in truth you should search the scriptures yourself again and find it; and when you do, allow scripture to produce theology instead of the other way around.

I'm not helping you remain in your blindness by telling you YET AGAIN about the very scriptures which you simply continue to misinterpret through re-interpreting scripture in the "light" of your theological sand castles.

 

[sovereigngrace]

It's the same scriptures which you always re-interpret "in the light" of your theological sand castle titled "Amillennialism" which is erected on the sea's side of the high tide mark - the very scriptures that though they appear in the Bible, and have been quoted to you a myriad times, you simply re-interpret each time in the "light" of your error - your theological sand castle which you have placed above scripture in your mind, without even realizing it, because you remain blinded by the same sand castles.

Scripture mentions more than one resurrection, and I know where it does. I'm not going to tell you, though, because you've been told a myriad times by many people, and in truth you should search the scriptures yourself again and find it; and when you do, allow scripture to produce theology instead of the other way around.

I'm not helping you remain in your blindness by telling you YET AGAIN about the very scriptures which you simply continue to misinterpret through re-interpreting scripture in the "light" of your theological sand castles.

You have clearly nothing to bring to the table apart from slurs and slights. Once again, you avoid the core issues because they expose Premil. This is why it should be rejected. It is a private interpretation foisted upon the inspired pages.

 

[Zao is life]

You have clearly nothing to bring to the table apart from slurs and slights. Once again, you avoid the core issues because they expose Premil. This is why it should be rejected. It is a private interpretation foisted upon the inspired pages.

Your misinterpretations of scripture do not expose Premil - they expose Amil.

1. When, according to Jesus in John 12:31, will the world be judged? (Please answer according to Jesus only)

 

[sovereigngrace]

Your misinterpretations of scripture do not expose Premil - they expose Amil.

1. When, according to Jesus in John 12:31, will the world be judged? (Please answer according to Jesus only)

Zero evidence + zero evidence = zero evidence!

 

[Zao is life]

Zero evidence + zero evidence = zero evidence!

1. When, according to Jesus in John 12:31, will the world be judged? (Please answer according to Jesus only)

 

[sovereigngrace]

1. When, according to Jesus in John 12:31, will the world be judged? (Please answer according to Jesus only)

John 12:31-33 is speaking about the cross. Please read the text before hitting the submit button. It shows how our sin has already been paid for through Christs death. Christ uses the same type of language in John 12 as He did in Revelation 12:31-33, when, shortly before the Cross, He predicted the historic and eternal downfall of Satan through the cross. Jesus prophesied, “now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die” (John 12:31-33).

Here again we have another clear confirmation as to the timing of the banishment of Satan. Christ deliberately connects the time of His death to the time when Satan “the prince of this world” would finally be “cast out.” There, He gloriously dethroned Satan from his previous, largely unchallenged, global earthly rule and his place of accusation in heaven. Satan’s movement, liberties and sway on earth and in heaven received a severe blow.

 

[Timtofly]

I've only seen scripture implying that when Adam was created, he had a body and a soul - but when the Spirit of God breathed life into him, he became a living soul:

Genesis 2:7
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed [ nâphach ] into his nostrils the breath [ neshâmâh ] of life; and man became a living soul [nephesh]."

Jesus said,
John 3:7
"That which is born (γεννάω [gennáō]) of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born (γεννάω gennáō) of the Spirit ( πνεῦμα [pneûma] ) is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born (Greek: γεννάω [gennáō]) from above (Greek: ἄνωθεν [ánōthen])."

I don't believe Adam was created without a soul, because when Adam sinned, though he died spiritually, losing his "spiritual life-line" to the Spirit of God, Adam was still body and soul. I believe it is the human soul that went to sheol/hades at physical death:

Acts 2:26-27
Therefore my heart rejoiced and my tongue was glad; and also My flesh shall rest in hope, because You will not leave My soul in Hades, nor will You allow Your holy One to see corruption.

I believe it's the souls of those who (like Noah and Abraham), believed God and it was counted to them for righteousness, that were found in "Abraham's bosom" (until Christ died and rose again, taking those souls that were in Abraham's bosom with Him to heaven).

However, those who died in Christ are not in heaven in their bodies until the resurrection, and all references to the resurrection in the New Testament are references to the resurrection of the body (Greek: σῶμα sōma) from the dead, without exception.

THE NOUN: ἀνάστασις (anástasis) It's found in many passages - always in reference to the resurrection of the body from the dead (for example):- Matthew 22:23 & 28 & 30 & 31; Matthew 27:53; Mark 12:18, 23; Luke 2:34; Luke 14:14; Luke 20:27 & 33 & 35 & 36; John 5:29; John 11:24 & 25; Acts 1:22; Acts 2:31; Acts 4:2; Acts 4:33; Acts 17:18 & 32; Acts 23:6 & 8; Acts 24:15 & 21; Acts 26:23; Romans 1:4; Romans 6:5; 1 Corinthians 15:12, 13, 21, 42; Philippians 3:10, 11; 2 Tim 2:18; Hebrews 6:2; Hebrews 11:35; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 Peter 3:21; Revelation 20:5 & 6.

THE VERBS:- Note: These words are not always used in reference to the resurrection: Sometimes they are used in reference to great leaders being "raised up" for specific purposes; and sometimes they are used when people are instructed to "rise up, and depart" from certain places; and sometimes they are used for people being raised from sleep (when the "sleep" is not referring to death but merely normal sleep). However, the context of the verse and the passage the words appear in, always shows very clearly and unambiguously when the verbs are referring to rising again from death/the resurrection - and in each and every case, whenever the words are references to the resurrection, they are references to the resurrection of the body from death:-

(i) ἐγείρω (egeírō)
probably akin to the base of G58 (through the idea of collecting one's faculties); to waken (transitively or intransitively), i.e. rouse (literally, from sleep, from sitting or lying, from disease, from death; or figuratively, from obscurity, inactivity, ruins, nonexistence):--awake, lift (up), raise (again, up), rear up, (a-)rise (again, up), stand, take up.

There is a very long list of New Testament verses which use the word ἐγείρω (egeírō) in reference to the resurrection, and in each and every case, the verse is a reference to the resurrection of the body from the dead.

(ii) ἀνίστημι anístēmi
to stand up (literal or figurative, transitive or intransitive):--arise, lift up, raise up (again), rise (again), stand up(-right)

Whenever the word ἀνίστημι anístēmi is found in reference to the resurrection, the verse is a reference to the resurrection of the body from the dead.

An example where the verb [ ἀνίστημι (anístēmi) ] and the noun (ἀνάστασις anástasis) are both found in the same passage, where the context is the resurrection of the body from the dead:

John 11:23-26
"Jesus said to her, Your brother shall rise again [ἀνίστημι anístēmi]. Martha said to Him, I know that he shall rise again [ἀνίστημι anístēmi] in the resurrection [ἀνάστασις anastasis] at the last day. Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection [ἀνάστασις anastasis] and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"

Remember: Those who who are born from above by the Spirit of Christ are spiritually alive in Christ. It is the Spirit of God breathing life into us so that we become living souls.

Examples where the verb [ ἐγείρω (egeirō) ] and the noun (ἀνάστασις anástasis) are both found in the same passage, where the context is the resurrection of the body from the dead:-

1 Cor 15:12-15
"Now if Christ be preached that he rose [ ἐγείρω (egeirō) ] from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection [ ἀνάστασις (anastasis) ] of the dead?

But if there be no resurrection [ ἀνάστασις (anastasis) ] of the dead, then is Christ not risen [ ἐγείρω (egeirō) ].

And if Christ be not risen [ ἐγείρω (egeirō) ], then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up [ ἐγείρω (egeirō) ] Christ: whom he raised [ ἐγείρω (egeirō) ] not up, if so be that the dead rise [ ἐγείρω (egeirō) ] not."

1 Corinthians 12:20-23
“But now is Christ risen [ ἐγείρω (egeirō) ] from the dead, and become the fristfruits [ ἀπαρχή (aparchē) ] of them that slept (koimaō)

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection (anastasis) of the dead.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive [ ζωοποιέω, ( zōopoieō) ].

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits (aparchē); afterward (epeita) they that are Christ’s at his coming (perousia).”

Risen with Christ (Greek) συνεγείρω synegeírō

When syn appears prefixed to egeírō (synegeírō), it shows that the resurrection of the individual believer in Christ is something which occurs with Christ's resurrection. It's the same prefix we get with words like synthesis and synchronize. Compare this fact with Romans 6:5:

"For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"

This is also why Jesus' resurrection is called the first resurrection, and also the first-fruits of the resurrection.

I personally believe it is not correct to talk about the spirit of man going either to be with Christ (those who are born from above) or to hades (or "hell" for those who insist on that doctrine) at the time of physical death - it's the soul that is no longer joined to the body. It's the souls of saints who are seen in the Revelation "clothed in fine linen".

They are clothed in fine linen because we are clothed with Christ having been born from above by the Spirit of Christ.

Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. But rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in gehenna.

It is the Spirit of Christ in Adam (in man) that makes man a living soul. I believe that man has no spirit aside from the Spirit of Christ dwelling in him IF he has been born from above by the Spirit and has become a living soul.

Sometimes it becomes confused because we see for example
1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit (πνεῦμα pneûma) of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit (πνεῦμα pneûma) of God.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you, and may your whole spirit (πνεῦμα pneûma) and soul (ψυχή psychḗ ) and body (σῶμα sōma) be preserved blameless to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

However the word "whole" = ὁλόκληρος holóklēros, and it means: "complete in every part, i.e. perfectly sound (in body):--entire, whole."

Therefore it's the same as saying, "May you be preserved complete in body, soul and Spirit" - it's still the Spirit of God dwelling in the born-again person, and sanctifying and preserving him or her.

So I believe that without the Spirit of God, man born of the flesh has a body and a soul - and it's the Spirit of God breathing life into him when he is born of the Spirit from above, causing him to become a living soul.

The issue is glorification. What happened on the mount of transfiguration? The body of Jesus began to shine like a bright light. That is what the "robe of white" consist of. Revelation 21:23

23 The city has no need for the sun or the moon to shine on it, because God’s Sh’khinah gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.

That is the image of God. When Moses was on Mt. Sinai, his face became so radiant, they had to cover his head to keep from going blind. Moses was also present on the Mount of Transfiguration.

John states the glorified bodies are given in the 5th seal to all those dead in Christ. It cannot be just martyrs. The church is one body. The rapture is in the 6th seal, and the church is complete and presented to God as one body.

 

[Zao is life]

John 12:31-33 is speaking about the cross. Please read the text before hitting the submit button. It shows how our sin has already been paid for through Christs death. Christ uses the same type of language in John 12 as He did in Revelation 12:31-33, when, shortly before the Cross, He predicted the historic and eternal downfall of Satan through the cross. Jesus prophesied, “now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die” (John 12:31-33).

Here again we have another clear confirmation as to the timing of the banishment of Satan. Christ deliberately connects the time of His death to the time when Satan “the prince of this world” would finally be “cast out.” There, He gloriously dethroned Satan from his previous, largely unchallenged, global earthly rule and his place of accusation in heaven. Satan’s movement, liberties and sway on earth and in heaven received a severe blow.

I don't know if you copy and paste your commentary or if you just invent your own as you go along.

Please read the text before hitting the submit button.

Your commentary is in serious error in that it changes the meaning of the words of Jesus by taking away from His teaching, because you have ignored the very important fact that our Lord was speaking of the judgment of the world. You mention only that our sin has already been paid for through Christ's death on the cross.

That's between you and God, but I believe the words of Jesus, without taking away from them.

The judgment of the world came when Jesus died on the cross:

John 12:32
Of this present time (νῦν nŷn) is the judgment (κρίσις krísis) of this world (κόσμος kos'-mos). Of this present time (νῦν nŷn) shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself.

Revelation 12 shows Jesus being caught up to God and to His throne, and Satan being cast out of heaven.

The judgment of the world during the life of Noah came 120 years before the flood - the sentence was only carried out 120 years after the judgment was declared:

Genesis 6:5-7
And the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD repented that He had made man on the earth, and He was angry to His heart.
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created, from the face of the earth, both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air. For I repent that I have made them.

The above judgment of the world came 120 years before the flood. The flood was the sentence being carried out.

The reason our sin has been paid for when Jesus died on the cross is precisely because the judgment of the world came upon Jesus. This is also why Jesus also said that those who do not believe in Him are condemned already - precisely because the judgment of the world had come:

John 3:16-21
For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.
He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who practices truth comes to the Light so that his deeds may be made known, that they have been worked in God.

It's because:

John 12:32
Of this present time (νῦν nŷn) is the judgment (κρίσις krísis) of this world (κόσμος kos'-mos). Of this present time (νῦν nŷn) shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself.

In exactly the same way, the judgment of the world during the life of Noah came 120 years before the flood, but the sentence was only carried out 120 years after the judgment was declared, so the judgment of the world came when Jesus died on the cross - but it fell on Jesus.

The judgment of those who are told about Jesus and who hear and understand but do not believe in Jesus has come too (they are condemned already), but the sentence is not carried out yet.

I don't know if you copy and paste your commentary or invent it as you go along, but your theology is full of error. The judgment of the world came when Jesus died on the cross. It's the pivotal point in all of history.

Now therefore, in light of the fact that the judgment of this world has already come when Jesus died on the cross, and in light of the fact that Jesus stated that His Kingdom is not of this present time of this world, do you

(a) think that the seventh trumpet sounded when Jesus rose again from the dead, and the kingdoms of this world (κόσμος kósmos) became the Kingdoms of our LORD and of His Christ (Revelation 11:15)?

John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world (κόσμος kósmos). If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would fight so that I might not be delivered to the Jews. But of this present time (νῦν nŷn) My kingdom is not from here.

and do you (b) believe the Bible when you read it, and do you believe, as the author of the epistle to the Hebrews teaches us, that though all things have been put under His feet, yet of this present time (νῦν nŷn) we see not yet all things having been put under him (Hebrews 2:8)?

 

[BABerean2]

I allow the book to say what it says without re-interpreting it in the "light" of theological sand castles.

Really?

Is the "first resurrection" in Revelation chapter 20 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation?

Do you really believe the Book of Revelation is in chronological order?

Do you believe Christ will be conducting funeral services for mortals killed in accidents during a period of 1,000 years after His Second Coming? Where will their souls go if Christ is on the Earth?

Is the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others, also found in Revelation 11:18?

Do you think Jesus was confused in Matthew 25:31-46? How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of the passage?

Does the fire come at the return of Christ, as Paul described in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10? How do your mortals survive the fire?

Does the judgment of both the living and the dead occur at the appearing of Christ, as described by Paul in 2 Timothy 4:1? Was Paul confused?

When does the fire and the judgment of the dead occur in Revelation chapter 20.


Does an angel come down from heaven and unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2?
If the pit was not locked before that time, why did the angel unlock it?

Who is the "strongman" who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29?

If you only read Revelation chapter 20, and ignore the rest of the Book of Revelation, and also ignore the rest of the New Testament, you can probably make the Premill doctrine work.


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[Zao is life]

The issue is glorification. What happened on the mount of transfiguration? The body of Jesus began to shine like a bright light. That is what the "robe of white" consist of. Revelation 21:23

23 The city has no need for the sun or the moon to shine on it, because God’s Sh’khinah gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.

That is the image of God. When Moses was on Mt. Sinai, his face became so radiant, they had to cover his head to keep from going blind. Moses was also present on the Mount of Transfiguration.

I agreed with you up to that point.

John states the glorified bodies are given in the 5th seal to all those dead in Christ. It cannot be just martyrs. The church is one body. The rapture is in the 6th seal, and the church is complete and presented to God as one body.

The white robes they are given is (Christ's) righteousness. They are not resurrected yet. John does not state that the white robes "are their glorified bodies", nor does that part of the passage even imply it.

 

[Zao is life]

The reason the Rabbis simply continue to deny Jesus is the Messiah, is because whenever their theology collides with scriptures which refute them, such as Isaiah chapter 53, Isaiah 9:6-7 and many others, is because they do not allow scripture to produce theology but they start with their theology and then interpret scripture "in the light of" their theology.

Thank goodness, Amillennialists do not do that in respect of who Jesus is - but they do it in the case of many, many N.T verses which they have interpreted "in the light of" their false A-mill theology.

The Rabbis, too, simply keep repeating the same debunked and refuted arguments again and again and again, refusing to allow scripture to interpret scripture and produce its own theology.

Post # 9; Post #10; Post #11 (See how the following post quoted below is just copied and pasted over and over and over again like a mantra by the Poster in order to do what Rabbis always do):

Really?

Is the "first resurrection" in Revelation chapter 20 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation?

Do you really believe the Book of Revelation is in chronological order?

Do you believe Christ will be conducting funeral services for mortals killed in accidents during a period of 1,000 years after His Second Coming? Where will their souls go if Christ is on the Earth?

Is the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others, also found in Revelation 11:18?

Do you think Jesus was confused in Matthew 25:31-46? How many mortals are left alive on the planet at the end of the passage?

Does the fire come at the return of Christ, as Paul described in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10? How do your mortals survive the fire?

Does the judgment of both the living and the dead occur at the appearing of Christ, as described by Paul in 2 Timothy 4:1? Was Paul confused?

When does the fire and the judgment of the dead occur in Revelation chapter 20.


Does an angel come down from heaven and unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2?
If the pit was not locked before that time, why did the angel unlock it?

Who is the "strongman" who is bound in Matthew 12:26-29?

Post # 9; Post #10; Post #11

 

[BABerean2]

The reason the Rabbis simply continue to deny Jesus is the Messiah, is because whenever their theology collides with scriptures which refute them, such as Isaiah chapter 53, Isaiah 9:6-7 and many others, is because they do not allow scripture to produce theology but they start with their theology and then interpret scripture "in the light of" their theology.

The rabbis also ignore the promise of the New Covenant found in Jeremiah 31:31-34, because they cannot give up the Old Covenant.

The rabbis are expecting a rebuilt temple in earthly Jerusalem with renewed animal sacrifices, even though the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13, and there is now no more offering for sin in Hebrews 10:16-18. We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, but are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24.


Why did Jesus correct the woman at the well when she said earthly Jerusalem was the place to worship, in John 4:20-24?

Therefore, it is the Premill doctrine that agrees with the rabbis, and the woman at the well.

Those who understand the fulfillment of the New Covenant at Calvary reject the Premill doctrine.


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[iamlamad]

Really?

Is the "first resurrection" in Revelation chapter 20 the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation?
.

What does your question have to do with the price of tea in China? NOTHING!

Neither does it have anything to do with end time doctrine.
We all know (or should know) Jesus was the very first to be raised from the dead into a resurrection body, and was therefore called "the Firstfruits." This very word tells us if there is a "first" then there is going to be others to follow.

Revelation talks of TWO general resurrections: one for the righteous, and one for the sinner. Here is a more pertinent question: can you find a title for a THIRD resurrection? One is called the "first" or primary or chief of resurrections, the other, if John gave it any title, would be the "second death" resurrection. I cannot find a third resurrection listed.

Common sense then should tell all readers two is all there ever will be: one for all the righteous, one for all the rest. This is a very simply concept: I don't know why people struggle with it or fight against it. The Greek word behind "first" can mean first in time, first in place, first in rank or priority or honor. In context, since this resurrection is for all the righteous for all time, the best meaning is first in honor.

 

[iamlamad]

The issue is glorification. What happened on the mount of transfiguration? The body of Jesus began to shine like a bright light. That is what the "robe of white" consist of. Revelation 21:23

23 The city has no need for the sun or the moon to shine on it, because God’s Sh’khinah gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.

That is the image of God. When Moses was on Mt. Sinai, his face became so radiant, they had to cover his head to keep from going blind. Moses was also present on the Mount of Transfiguration.

John states the glorified bodies are given in the 5th seal to all those dead in Christ. It cannot be just martyrs. The church is one body. The rapture is in the 6th seal, and the church is complete and presented to God as one body.

I see now: you just created that term, "robe of white" from human imagination.

Question: does God's glory come from Him putting on some robe that glows brightly?
At the transfiguration, did Jesus glory come from some supernatural "robe" that He put on that glowed brightly?

The truth is, GOD IS LIGHT. Just as GOD IS LOVE, then GOD IS ALSO LIGHT. (1 John 1:5)
In other words, God needs to special "robe" to create light, for He IS light. Therefore I disagree with your term: "robe of light."

John states the glorified bodies are given in the 5th seal to all those dead in Christ. It cannot be just martyrs. The church is one body. So we are to take YOUR word for this, since you disagree with John? Read it carefully:

Rev. 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Here are some other translations:
the souls of them that were slain
the souls of those who had been slaughtered
the souls of those whose lives had been sacrificed
the souls of those who had been put to death
the souls of everyone who had been killed
who had been martyred for preaching the Word of God
who had been martyred for the word of God
having been slain as martyrs

You imagine this is all those who are dead in Christ, and you imagine this because "the church is one body."
Therefore, logically, it is one of two things: either:
A. you are simply mistaken, or
B. every one that is "dead in Christ" got slaughtered or put to death or martyred because of the Word of God.

I personally know of saints who simply died of old age. They were NOT slain or martyred. I am going to go with B above. You are therefore simply mistaken.

I have a simply request: Let's just BELIEVE what John wrote: these are MARTYRS. But being martyrs, they are still very much a part of the DEAD IN CHRIST. They are dead, (their slain bodies) and they are "In Christ." There is simply no reason to use human reasoning to disagree with what is written.

The rapture is in the 6th seal, and the church is complete and presented to God as one body. Here you are sort of making sense: but did you not understand that the martyrs are a subset of the "dead in Christ" and they too will be raised from the dead with the rest of the dead in Christ?