Is the Sabbath binding.

[HARK!]

For the Son of man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the Son of man coming in his kingdom."
Mt 16:27

Brother, that verse says absolutely nothing about heaven and Earth passing. He's talking about taking his seat at the right hand of YHWH.

 

[solid_core]

Brother, that verse says absolutely nothing about heaven and Earth passing. He's talking about taking his seat at the right hand of YHWH.

Heaven and earth should pass when He comes in His kingdom, you know.

 

[HARK!]

Heaven and earth should pass when He comes in His kingdom, you know.

Oh Brother, that doesn't happen until after the Millennial Reign.

 

[solid_core]

Oh Brother, that doesn't happen until after the Millennial Reign.

If you want to believe that some peope from the first century are still alive today... your call.

I prefer theology that is innerly consistent.

 

[sparow]

The sabbath is part of the old law that was nailed to the cross. If you go back and keep any of that law, you have to keep all of it. And after the destruction of Jerusalem, and especially the temple where the sacrifices were offered to atone for sin, there is not a way to keep the law even if you wanted to do so.

Besides which, going back to the old law causes one to fall from grace.

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Jesus gave us new commandments. Thou shalt not murder became love your brother because hating him is murder. Thou shalt not commit adultery became don't even lust after a woman when you are married to another.

And the new Sabbath is "the Lord's Day" when all of the church is supposed to meet, give their alms and worship God in truth and spirit.

In Greece, their word for Sunday is still the word meaning "The Lord's Day." The first day of the week. It is we who seek to enter into his rest by obeying the new covenant's commands and realizing that Christ completed the old covenant and nailed it to the cross.

I do not use Paul, Jesus is my teacher and I do not need an intermediator between Christ and myself. The issue of keeping the Law or not, is as old as the hills; people who argue for the Law also use Paul to prove their case. The Catholic Church claims that there is no change to the Law except for the change they have made and that they are the only one authorised to make the changes, and they did not exist when Paul wrote. Jesus did not Change the Law, He made the way straight, how it should always have been.

 

[HARK!]

If you want to believe that some peope from the first century are still alive today... your call.

I prefer theology that is innerly consistent.

He took his seat at the right hand of YHWH at the ascension. That was a completely different time period from the Millennial Reign which is to come.

Read Revelation Chapters 20 and 21. They're short chapters, so it shouldn't take you long to understand this.

 

[solid_core]

He took his seat at the right hand of YHWH at the ascension. That was a completely different time period from the Millennial Reign which is to come.

Read Revelation Chapters 20 and 21. They're short chapters, so it shouldn't take you long to understand this.

I do not base my theology on the symbolic book of Revelation that has as many explanations as there are people.

When I base my theology on clear and explicit words of Jesus and apostles in historic Gospels and letters to churches, the old Jewish "heaven and earth" ended in the first century.

 

[HARK!]

do not base my theology on the symbolic book of Revelation that has as many explanations as there are people.

This is fairly straightforward:

(CLV) Re 20:10
And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be |tormented day and night for the eons of the eons.

(CLV) Re 20:12
And I perceived the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne. And scrolls were opened. And another scroll was opened which is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged by that which is written in the scrolls in accord with their acts.

(CLV) Re 20:13
And the sea gives up the dead in it, and death and the unseen give up the dead in them. And they were condemned, each in accord with their acts.

(CLV) Re 20:14
And death and the unseen were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death the lake of fire.

(CLV) Re 20:15
And if anyone was not found written in the scroll of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

(CLV) Re 21:1
And I perceived a new heaven and a new earth, for the former heaven and the former earth pass away, and the sea is not more.

 

[HARK!]

"heaven and earth" ended in the first century.

Rubbish

 

[solid_core]

Rubbish

Lol, ok

 

[Aussie Pete]

The law leads us to Christ because everything in it teaches us about who he is, how to walk as he walked, and how to grow in a relationship with him, but does not lead us to Christ so that we can reject his law and go back to living in sin. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law, so obedience to it has always been about trusting God to guide us in how to rightly live and has never been about what we can accomplish through our own efforts. If God's law were His instructions for how to become self-righteous, and God does not want us to become self-righteous, then it follows that God therefore does not want to be obeyed, which is absurd, especially considering that all throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, therefore it was not given as instructions for how to become self-righteous, but as instructions for how to express God's righteousness. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and that is a life lived in obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is the same way (Jeremiah 6:16-19), truth (Psalms 119:142), and life (Matthew 19:17).

Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so he would have still taught full obedience to it by example even if he had said nothing, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17-23) and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of of the Kingdom and of what we need to do to enter it. Every kingdom has laws that govern the conduct of its citizens and God's law is straightforwardly the law of God's Kingdom. In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the law, and Jesus was sinless, therefore he didn't do that, but rather the sum of everything that he taught by word and by example was how to obey the Mosaic Law.

Good luck with that. If you want to be justified by obeying the law, you put yourself outside of grace. Grace is what saves us. No one is advocating a continuation of a sinful lifestyle. Legalism demands that people obey the law but does not have a clue as to how. The stupidity of legalism is that it is far less demanding than the requirements laid down by Lord Jesus. The commandment says to love your neighbour as you love yourself. Lord Jesus requires that we love one another as He loves us. That's a whole level higher. I'd enlighten you as to how we can live as Christ requires us to live but it is pointless. You won't listen.

 

[Aussie Pete]

You really do not understand the Law at all, but you are excused, because all are deceived. It is true all have sinned but Jesus has not substituted His Blood for all, only those who have repented and continue to repent and have purposely entered into the covenant, and retrospectively He was the Lamb from the foundation. There is more to the crucifixion than the shedding of blood, required by the Law, there was also the price of redemption paid to Satan, and so the need to mourn Him.

Your reasoning requires that God doesn't know what God is doing. I have not ever heard anyone claim that one can be justified by the Law except as a function of the High Priest who is responsible for justification.

Gee, you are the only one who knows what the Law is about. "But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone." I looked it up in the Greek. Everyone means everyone.

 

[Al Touthentop]

I do not use Paul, Jesus is my teacher and I do not need an intermediator between Christ and myself. The issue of keeping the Law or not, is as old as the hills; people who argue for the Law also use Paul to prove their case. The Catholic Church claims that there is no change to the Law except for the change they have made and that they are the only one authorised to make the changes, and they did not exist when Paul wrote. Jesus did not Change the Law, He made the way straight, how it should always have been.

John the baptist made the way straight in Preparation for Christ.

Paul cannot be thrown out. Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write what he wrote. His words had Jesus' approval.

We're to keep the law, the law of Christ, which abolished animal sacrifice and circumcision and every other ordinance under the law of Moses. Jesus fulfilled the law of Moses by keeping it. He also brought us a new law. The only authority is Jesus' authority which God the father handed to him as a result of his work on earth. And that authority established a new covenant with its own commands.

 

[Soyeong]

Good luck with that. If you want to be justified by obeying the law, you put yourself outside of grace. Grace is what saves us. No one is advocating a continuation of a sinful lifestyle. Legalism demands that people obey the law but does not have a clue as to how. The stupidity of legalism is that it is far less demanding than the requirements laid down by Lord Jesus. The commandment says to love your neighbour as you love yourself. Lord Jesus requires that we love one another as He loves us. That's a whole level higher. I'd enlighten you as to how we can live as Christ requires us to live but it is pointless. You won't listen.

I didn't say a word about wanting to be justified by obeying the law - that was never the purpose for which it was given. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what God’s law was given to instruct how to do. Strong's defines grace as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it takes the form of obedience to His law (Psalms 40:8). So grace is the power of God to overcome lawlessness in our lives and it is by grace that God teaches us to obey His law.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is disobedience to God's law (1 John 3:4), so being taught by grace to live in obedience to God's law through faith is what being saved from living in disobedience to God's law looks like. Likewise, in Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith, so while we do not earn our salvation by our obedience to God's law as though it were something that could be earned, it is also true that we are not saved from living in disobedience to God's law while refusing to repent and live in obedience to it by faith.

Legalism has always been a perversion of God's law that undermines both the intent of what God has commanded His people to do and why He has commanded us to do it, which therefore leads to death just as assuredly as refusing to submit to God's law.

When we are commanded to love our neighbor as ourselves, then the next question should be: well then, how should we love ourselves? The answer is that we should love ourselves as God loves us, which is therefore how we should love our neighbor. So Jesus was not sinning in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2 by making changes to that law, but rather he was fulfilling the law by teaching how to correctly understand and obey it as it was originally intended.

 

[Al Touthentop]

I didn't say a word about wanting to be justified by obeying the law - that was never the purpose for which it was given. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law.

When the law was given, it was in fact so that those who obeyed it could be justified. The reason Paul taught that there was no justification under the old law was because it was no longer in effect, not that it never justified anyone.

We know the law justified those who followed it because of passages such as this one:

Luke 1
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

David's Psalm tells us that God's commands are themselves grace. So people who divorce grace from God's commands are misreading scripture.

Grace is favor or gift, and commands are given - the very definition of grace.

 

[HARK!]

Paul cannot be thrown out. Paul was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write what he wrote. His words had Jesus' approval.

We're to keep the law, the law of Christ, which abolished animal sacrifice

Then why did Paul keep the feasts?

 

[Soyeong]

When the law was given, it was in fact so that those who obeyed it could be justified. The reason Paul taught that there was no justification under the old law was because it was no longer in effect, not that it never justified anyone.

We know the law justified those who followed it because of passages such as this one:

Luke 1
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

David's Psalm tells us that God's commands are themselves grace. So people who divorce grace from God's commands are misreading scripture.

Grace is favor or gift, and commands are given - the very definition of grace.

Obedience to any set of instructions that are said to be for our own good is about putting our faith in the one who gave them to rightly guide us, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 23:23, that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law, so God giving or teaching His law should be considered to be by grace and obedience to it should be considered to be acting through faith. In Genesis 6:8-9, it says that Noah found grace in the eyes of God and that he was a righteous man, so he was taught how to do what is righteous by grace and was righteous because he obeyed through faith, so he was declared righteous by grace through faith in the same one and only way as everyone else, including Zechariah and Elizabeth. Only those who have faith in God to teach us in how to live righteously will obey His law and will be justified by that same faith, which is why Paul said that only doers of the law will be justified (Romans 2:13), but did not say that we earn our justification by obeying the law.

All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160) and eternal instructions for how to act in accordance with God's eternal righteousness can't be ended without first ending God's eternal righteousness. Even before God made any covenants with man, there still existed a way to act in accordance with His righteousness, so the way to do that is not based on any particular covenant. For example, it will always be in accordance with God's righteousness to help the poor no matter how many covenants God makes and if God were to ever make a covenant where it was righteous to take advantage of the poor, then His righteousness would not be eternal. So God's law reveals what has always been and will always be the way to do what is righteous and will therefore always be in effect.

 

[Al Touthentop]

Then why did Paul keep the feasts?

He didn't. He went to Jerusalem and submitted to the wishes of James and the elders because he was trying to keep the peace. It didn't work out. They falsely accused him of bringing in a Gentile into the temple and was then placed into the custody of the Romans.

 

[Al Touthentop]

Obedience to any set of instructions that are said to be for our own good is about putting our faith in the one who gave them to rightly guide us, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 23:23, that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law, so God giving or teaching His law should be considered to be by grace and obedience to it should be considered to be acting through faith.

Not to any, but the ones that are in force.

All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160) and eternal instructions for how to act in accordance with God's eternal righteousness can't be ended without first ending God's eternal righteousness. Even before God made any covenants with man, there still existed a way to act in accordance with His righteousness, so the way to do that is not based on any particular covenant. For example, it will always be in accordance with God's righteousness to help the poor no matter how many covenants God makes and if God were to ever make a covenant where it was righteous to take advantage of the poor, then His righteousness would not be eternal. So God's law reveals what has always been and will always be the way to do what is righteous and will therefore always be in effect.

This is to go against what Paul wrote. He wrote that the old law had been made obsolete, God through his prophets said the old covenant would become obsolete and Christ nailed it to the cross.

If you're correct that all of the statutes are in effect forever, we MUST, by definition, sacrifice animals for remission of sins. This is absurd as anyone who honestly reads the scripture should know.

 

[HARK!]

He didn't.

Acts 18:21 New King James Version (NKJV)
21 but took leave of them, saying, must by all means keep this coming feast in Jerusalem; but I will return again to you, God willing.” And he sailed from Ephesus.