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Is the Sabbath binding.

sparow

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If anyone was or is able to keep the Law to the degree that they are pleasing or being acceptable to God, then Jesus would not have had to come to die on the cross to take the penalty for our sin. It would make a lie of the Scripture, "No one is justified by the Law".


You really do not understand the Law at all, but you are excused, because all are deceived. It is true all have sinned but Jesus has not substituted His Blood for all, only those who have repented and continue to repent and have purposely entered into the covenant, and retrospectively He was the Lamb from the foundation. There is more to the crucifixion than the shedding of blood, required by the Law, there was also the price of redemption paid to Satan, and so the need to mourn Him.

Your reasoning requires that God doesn't know what God is doing. I have not ever heard anyone claim that one can be justified by the Law except as a function of the High Priest who is responsible for justification.
 
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summerville

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I was simply responding to your implication that I was ignoring other references, which somehow skew my understanding to the relationship of YHWH and Yahshua.

Exodus 31
12 YAHWEH said to Moshe, 13 Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘You are to observe my Shabbats; for this is a sign between me and you through all your generations; so that you will know that I am YAHWEH, who sets you apart for me. 17 It is a sign between me and the people of Isra’el forever; for in six days ADONAI made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he stopped working and rested.’

(CLV) Ex 20:8
You are to remember the sabbath day to hallow it.

(CLV) Ezk 20:12
And I also gave My sabbaths to them to become a sign between Me and them, to make known that it is I, Yahweh, Who hallows them.

(CLV) Ex 31:16
Hence the sons of Israel will keep the sabbath so as to make the sabbath an eonian covenant throughout their generations.

(CLV) Num 15:16
One law and one custom, it shall come to be for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you.

(CLV) Num 15:15
As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you. It shall be an eonian statute throughout your generations. Like you so shall the sojourner be before Yahweh.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Hebrews 4:11
Therefore, while the promise of entering His rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be deemed to have fallen short of it

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

NOT Judah.. Israel. The Judeans despised their prosperous country cousins.
 
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summerville

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You really do not understand the Law at all, but you are excused, because all are deceived. It is true all have sinned but Jesus has not substituted His Blood for all, only those who have repented and continue to repent and have purposely entered into the covenant, and retrospectively He was the Lamb from the foundation. There is more to the crucifixion than the shedding of blood, required by the Law, there was also the price of redemption paid to Satan, and so the need to mourn Him.

Your reasoning requires that God doesn't know what God is doing. I have not ever heard anyone claim that one can be justified by the Law except as a function of the High Priest who is responsible for justification.

"there was also the price of redemption paid to Satan, and so the need to mourn Him. "

What does that mean?
 
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HARK!

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(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

NOT Judah.. Israel. The Judeans despised their prosperous country cousins.

Careful Sister, even if what you say is true, lashon hara.


(CLV) Jer 31:31
Behold, the days are coming, averring is Yahweh, when I will contract a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

(CLV) Hb 8:8
For, blaming them, He is saying, "Lo! the days are coming," the Lord is saying, "And I shall be concluding with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant,
 
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Aussie Pete

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Do you think that refusing to submit to God's law is the way through the gate?
So many get this back to front. The Law was put in charge of us to lead us to Christ. If you are trusting your own obedience to the 613 commandments of God, you will never get through the gate. Lord Jesus is the Door, He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Obeying Lord Jesus is infinitely more demanding than keeping a set of rules. That's why so many are keen to have a nice, comfortable Law to follow. Except it is not good enough. You can keep every Law of Moses. to the nth degree and still fall short of God's glory. How do I know? God says so.

Obeying Christ's commands is not the same as obeying the law. Otherwise, it would have said, obey the Law of Moses. Self righteousness does not cut it with God. If that's all you've got, you are disqualified from God's kingdom.
 
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sparow

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"there was also the price of redemption paid to Satan, and so the need to mourn Him. "

What does that mean?

With these discussions one can get too technical and exceed scripture; redemption is a common theme and generally means buying back something you already own, like paying a thief to return stolen property.

The Law did not require crucifixion only that blood be shed, and crucifixion does not include shedding blood. The crucifixion and what went with it was a price extracted by Satan.

Luke 21:28 (NKJV)
28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."

Revelation 1:7 (NKJV)
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

It is one way to get close to Him, to share the crucifixion with Him and mourn Him.
 
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HARK!

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Obeying Christ's commands is not the same as obeying the law. Otherwise, it would have said, obey the Law of Moses.

It's not the law of Moses. It's the law of YHWH.
 
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HARK!

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Lord Jesus is the Door, He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Obeying Lord Jesus is infinitely more demanding than keeping a set of rules.

(CLV) Mt 7:21
"Not everyone saying to Me `Lord! Lord!' will be entering into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who is doing the will of My Father Who is in the heavens.
(CLV) Mt 7:22
Many will be declaring to Me in that day, `Lord! Lord! Was it not in Your name that we prophesy, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many powerful deeds?'

(CLV) Mt 7:23
And then shall I be avowing to them that `I never knew you! Depart from Me, workers of lawlessness'
 
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sparow

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Abraham pleased God because he believed God. He was also a coward and a deceiver. David said that he hid God's law in his heart so that he might not sin against God. He was a murdering adulterer. Moses, Elijah, Abraham, David - God's elite. And they all sinned one way or another.

You have a real problem if you are trying to please Christ and overcome sin. I wish you well. Me, I gave up that pointless endeavour years ago. I wasted far too much of my life trying. When the truth finally dawned on me, I realised that I don't have to do anything at all. It's all been done for me. Lord Jesus died my death for me. Lord Jesus took me to the grave and left me there. He raised me up to new life with Himself. I did nothing to achieve this. I am already righteous, I already please God and sin no longer has dominion over me. I do not remember the 633 laws that God gave to Moses and I couldn't care less. I am a partaker of the divine nature, I am complete in Christ and I am a new creation in Him. The Law is just a shadow of the reality. If that's all you have, you have nothing.

God does not give us a list of things to do to be saved for the obvious reason; instead he gives us a list of things not to do (to be saved). I am only vaguely aware that the Pharisees extracted 633 law from scripture, and I believe this is adding to scripture which is it self breaking the Law. If you no longer sin then you are keeping the Law; but it is a dangerous claim; such claims are often associated with pride.
 
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Soyeong

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So many get this back to front. The Law was put in charge of us to lead us to Christ. If you are trusting your own obedience to the 613 commandments of God, you will never get through the gate. Lord Jesus is the Door, He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Obeying Lord Jesus is infinitely more demanding than keeping a set of rules. That's why so many are keen to have a nice, comfortable Law to follow. Except it is not good enough. You can keep every Law of Moses. to the nth degree and still fall short of God's glory. How do I know? God says so.

Obeying Christ's commands is not the same as obeying the law. Otherwise, it would have said, obey the Law of Moses. Self righteousness does not cut it with God. If that's all you've got, you are disqualified from God's kingdom.

The law leads us to Christ because everything in it teaches us about who he is, how to walk as he walked, and how to grow in a relationship with him, but does not lead us to Christ so that we can reject his law and go back to living in sin. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law, so obedience to it has always been about trusting God to guide us in how to rightly live and has never been about what we can accomplish through our own efforts. If God's law were His instructions for how to become self-righteous, and God does not want us to become self-righteous, then it follows that God therefore does not want to be obeyed, which is absurd, especially considering that all throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, therefore it was not given as instructions for how to become self-righteous, but as instructions for how to express God's righteousness. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and that is a life lived in obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is the same way (Jeremiah 6:16-19), truth (Psalms 119:142), and life (Matthew 19:17).

Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so he would have still taught full obedience to it by example even if he had said nothing, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17-23) and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel of of the Kingdom and of what we need to do to enter it. Every kingdom has laws that govern the conduct of its citizens and God's law is straightforwardly the law of God's Kingdom. In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the law, and Jesus was sinless, therefore he didn't do that, but rather the sum of everything that he taught by word and by example was how to obey the Mosaic Law.
 
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Al Touthentop

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Is the Sabbath binding on Christians? This is a wrong question that can only produce a wrong answer. It could be that it is right that the Sabbath is not binding on Christians but what use is being right if one then proceeds to forfeit ones salvation. One can say the Law is not binding but if it is true for that one, the it is also true that, that one does not follow Christ, only using His name but walking his own walk. Another one will volunteerily bind himself to Christ and keep the commandments.

The sabbath is part of the old law that was nailed to the cross. If you go back and keep any of that law, you have to keep all of it. And after the destruction of Jerusalem, and especially the temple where the sacrifices were offered to atone for sin, there is not a way to keep the law even if you wanted to do so.

Besides which, going back to the old law causes one to fall from grace.

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Jesus gave us new commandments. Thou shalt not murder became love your brother because hating him is murder. Thou shalt not commit adultery became don't even lust after a woman when you are married to another.

And the new Sabbath is "the Lord's Day" when all of the church is supposed to meet, give their alms and worship God in truth and spirit.

In Greece, their word for Sunday is still the word meaning "The Lord's Day." The first day of the week. It is we who seek to enter into his rest by obeying the new covenant's commands and realizing that Christ completed the old covenant and nailed it to the cross.
 
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Al Touthentop

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In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the law, and Jesus was sinless, therefore he didn't do that, but rather the sum of everything that he taught by word and by example was how to obey the Mosaic Law.

While that law was in effect, and maybe even afterward, this was true. I mean, even today modifying the scripture would be wrong.

But that law is nailed to the cross. We obey a new set of commands, some of which are common to the law of Moses, but aren't the actual law of Moses.
 
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Soyeong

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While that law was in effect, and maybe even afterward, this was true. I mean, even today modifying the scripture would be wrong.

But that law is nailed to the cross. We obey a new set of commands, some of which are common to the law of Moses, but aren't the actual law of Moses.

Jesus was born under the Mosaic Law (Galatians 4:4), so he was obligated to obey it, and the fact that he set a sinless example of how to obey it means that he never broke it, including Deuteronomy 4:2. In John 15:10, Jesus said that he kept the Father's commands, which again includes Deuteronomy 4:2. Furthermore, Christ did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced, so he taught obedience to the Mosaic Law both by word and by example. If what Jesus taught was not the same as what the Father taught, then that would mean that he was in disagreement with the Father about which laws we should follow, but I see no indication of this. On the contrary, in John 14:23-24, Jesus said that if we love him, then we will obey his teachings, if we don't love him, then we will not obey his teachings, and that his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father, so he did not teach his own laws, and if we love him, then we will obey what the Father has taught.

In Matthew 5:17, Jesus specifically said that he came not to abolish the law, so saying that it was nailed to the cross is saying that he lied. In regard to Colossians 2:14, whenever someone was crucified, the people would write out a sign that listed the charges that were against them and nail it to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed (Matthew 27:37). This served as a perfect analogy for the list of our violations of God's law being nailed to the cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with ending any of God's laws, especially because they are all eternal (Psalms 119:160).
 
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Bob S

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I have read all this nonsense. Hark refuses to respond to my questions. All the malarkey about doing this, that and something else. The plan of Salvation is so very simple.

1Jn 3:19-24 is the simple truth. Thank you John for giving us the simple truth of how to live our lives and please our Savior.

19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 if our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: we know it by the Spirit he gave us. AMEN!
 
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Al Touthentop

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Jesus was born under the Mosaic Law (Galatians 4:4), so he was obligated to obey it, and the fact that he set a sinless example of how to obey it means that he never broke it, including Deuteronomy 4:2. In John 15:10, Jesus said that he kept the Father's commands, which again includes Deuteronomy 4:2. Furthermore, Christ did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced, so he taught obedience to the Mosaic Law both by word and by example. If what Jesus taught was not the same as what the Father taught, then that would mean that he was in disagreement with the Father about which laws we should follow, but I see no indication of this. On the contrary, in John 14:23-24, Jesus said that if we love him, then we will obey his teachings, if we don't love him, then we will not obey his teachings, and that his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father, so he did not teach his own laws, and if we love him, then we will obey what the Father has taught.

While that law was in effect, Jesus obeyed it perfectly and then created a new testament, or covenant as Paul explains in Hebrews.

Now if you're going to hold to Deuteronomy, then you have to admit that when Jesus said, "I give you a new command," he was adding to the law and therefore breaking it. Of course that wasn't what he was doing, he was giving a command that was of the new covenant, not adding to the old, which he was forbidden to do by the law he said he came to keep and fulfill.

In Matthew 5:17, Jesus specifically said that he came not to abolish the law, so saying that it was nailed to the cross is saying that he lied.

Saying that he didn't nail it to the cross is to call him a liar. He made a comparison there and said his purpose was to fulfill it. He didn't come to live in disobedience to the law but to keep it perfectly. That was so a new law could be established. The new covenant would be of no worth if the person establishing it could not keep the old one.

Collosians 2
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

In regard to Colossians 2:14, whenever someone was crucified, the people would write out a sign that listed the charges that were against them and nail it to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed (Matthew 27:37). This served as a perfect analogy for the list of our violations of God's law being nailed to the cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with ending any of God's laws, especially because they are all eternal (Psalms 119:160).

He "wiped out the handwriting of requirements," of the old law. So animal sacrifice for instance. Or do you not advocate slaughter lambs when we sin? Anyone claiming that animal sacrifice is not required under "the law" has removed something from the scripture as banned in Deuteronomy.

He didn't abolish just a part of it. He declared it finished and fulfilled.

Hebrews 8
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


If Jesus didn't make a new covenant, then Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit had to have been lying.
 
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Soyeong

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The sabbath is part of the old law that was nailed to the cross. If you go back and keep any of that law, you have to keep all of it. And after the destruction of Jerusalem, and especially the temple where the sacrifices were offered to atone for sin, there is not a way to keep the law even if you wanted to do so.

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what God's law was given to instruct us how to do. Furthermore, verse 14 does not say that Jesus gave himself to end any laws, but rather it says that he gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so if we believe in what Jesus accomplished on the cross, then we will become zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law (Acts 21:20) and will not return to the lawlessness that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from.

If you believe that God's law was given for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13) and if you believe that God can be trusted to guide us in how to rightly live, then obeying the whole of God's law should not be considered to be a bad thing. On the contrary, David said repeatedly throughout the Psalms that he loved God's law and delighted in obeying it, so viewing obedience to it with anything less than delight is incompatible with the view that the Psalms are Scripture. Paul also delighted in obeying God's law (Romans 7:22), so he was on the same page as David. It is not as though the preferable alternative to living in obedience to God's law is to living in complete disobedience to it and refusing to repent. However, that was not the whole law that was being referred to.

When the Israelites were in exile in Babylon, the condition for their return to the land was to first return to obedience to God's law, which required them to have access to a temple that they didn't have access to while they were in exile, but they were nevertheless faithful to obey all that could be obeyed.

Besides which, going back to the old law causes one to fall from grace.

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.


All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and even Christ began his ministry with that message, so it would be absurd to interpret this passage as Paul warning us against obeying God and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. Furthermore, it wouldn't make sense to fall from grace by obeying God as if obedience to God were somehow a negative thing. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, so that is what being under grace looks like, and it wouldn't make sense to think that he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace. Likewise, in Romans 1:5, do you think that we have received grace in order to bring about our fall from grace? Or is does Titus 2:11-14 describe our salvation as being trained by grace how to fall from grace?

Jesus gave us new commandments. Thou shalt not murder became love your brother because hating him is murder. Thou shalt not commit adultery became don't even lust after a woman when you are married to another.

If Jesus had given us brand new commandments, then he would have sinned in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2 and disqualified himself from being our Savior. However, even if he had been giving brand new commandments, then it would have at the very least still been inclusive of the Mosaic Law because if we don't even hate our brother, then we won't murder, and if we don't lust after a woman, then we won't commit adultery. However, the reality is that we are commanded not to hate our brother in Leviticus 19:17 and the command against looking at a woman with lust in our hearts is just the correct application of the 7th and 10th Commandments against adultery and coveting in our hearts, so Jesus was not teaching any brand new laws in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2.

And the new Sabbath is "the Lord's Day" when all of the church is supposed to meet, give their alms and worship God in truth and spirit.

In Greece, their word for Sunday is still the word meaning "The Lord's Day." The first day of the week. It is we who seek to enter into his rest by obeying the new covenant's commands and realizing that Christ completed the old covenant and nailed it to the cross.

Jews traditionally did not handle money on the Sabbath, so they would wait until the close of the Sabbath on the 1st day of the week to collect offerings. Jesus set an example of keeping the 7th day holy and the New Covenant does not involve refusing to follow him, but rather it still involves following God's law (Jeremiah 31:33).
 
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HARK!

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Hark refuses to respond to my questions.

I didn't even know that you had asked me any questions; because you didn't quote me. Pretty slick, and you just did it again!

Here's your answer:

(CLV) Mt 7:3
"Now why are you observing the mote that is in your brother's eye, yet the beam in your eye you are not considering?

(CLV) Mt 7:4
Or how will you be declaring to your brother, `Brother, let me extract the mote out of your eye,' and lo! the beam is in your eye?

(CLV) Mt 7:5
Hypocrite! Extract first the beam out of your eye, and then you will be keen-sighted to be extracting the mote out of your brother's eye.
 
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HARK!

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1Jn 3:19-24 is the simple truth. Thank you John for giving us the simple truth of how to live our lives and please our Savior.

19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 if our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: we know it by the Spirit he gave us. AMEN!

How do you suppose these verses dovetail with the scripture you just posted?

(CLV) Ezk 36:26
I will give you a new heart, And a new spirit will I bestow within you, And I will take away»the heart of stone from your flesh, And I will give you a heart of flesh.

(CLV) Ezk 36:27
My spirit shall I bestow within you, And I will make it that you shall walk in My statutes and observe My ordinances, And you will obey them.

(CLV) Jer 31:33
For this is the covenant which I shall contract with the house of Israel after those days, averring is Yahweh: I will put My law within them, And I shall write it on their heart; I will become their Elohim, And they shall become My people.
 
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