Is the Sabbath a 'test of loyalty'?

fated

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Which one?



Yes, but is that scriptural. If so, could you provide an example?



I agree. Then we can certainly agree that the scripture is the first place we should look to determine what is reasonable.
We can see throughout the Old Testament that law was made to fit within a society and make life peaceful and just. These laws, now considered "out of date" are nonetheless valuable for the formation of minds and understanding of the ancient culture from which they are derived (through God of course).

I am not certain what exactly you are getting at (what the question regards), when asking for a particular passage; I don't know if you are looking for passages on a person's personal judgment or regarding old laws (of Moses).
 
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RND

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We can see throughout the Old Testament that law was made to fit within a society and make life peaceful and just.

I believe that God's moral law was a reflection of His character and nature that He wanted to see repeated in His people.

These laws, now considered "out of date" are nonetheless valuable for the formation of minds and understanding of the ancient culture from which they are derived (through God of course).

Which law?

I am not certain what exactly you are getting at (what the question regards), when asking for a particular passage; I don't know if you are looking for passages on a person's personal judgment or regarding old laws (of Moses).

I'm looking to discuss two things with you. 1) what laws do we follow and 2) what constitutes a "Jew."
 
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TrustAndObey

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Mary was a Jew that became a Christian (just like Paul was a Roman that became a Christian).

fated agrees that she could be considered the very first person to accept the coming Messiah, and that would make her the very first Christian.

She kept the Sabbath commandment of God after Christ was nailed to the cross. As a Christian (follower and believer in Christ, which is what we ALL are), she kept the commandment.
 
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TrustAndObey

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Christ told us not to get into traditions of men, to just follow the commandment:

Matthew 15:3 But He answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
 
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visionary

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Sabbath as a test of loyality... only when you are being tested regarding it. All things of God are a test of loyality. Every one of them will be tested as to your loyality to Him, His Word and His Kingdom. Teaching otherwise... will get you in the "least" line up.
 
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thecountrydoc

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You are absolutely correct Visionary when you say:
Sabbath as a test of loyality... only when you are being tested regarding it. All things of God are a test of loyality. Every one of them will be tested as to your loyality to Him, His Word and His Kingdom. Teaching otherwise... will get you in the "least" line up.
The point that is missed by most Christians is the concept that the Sabbath is indeed a test of loyality just as surely as any other teaching in the Bible. It seems, however, to be the only test of loyality that is questioned yet is is centeral to the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation. Without a correct understanding of the Sabbath it is impossible to make all the pieces fit when we attempt to understand the books of prophecy that tell us about where we are in the course of history and in relation to the return of Christ. To this weary traverler it seems to be pretty important to find out where we are on the map of this "road to salvation."


Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc
 
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thecountrydoc

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fated you said:
We can see throughout the Old Testament that law was made to fit within a society and make life peaceful and just. These laws, now considered "out of date" are nonetheless valuable for the formation of minds and understanding of the ancient culture from which they are derived (through God of course).
This statement now begs the question; Do you find any law, that was ever enacted by a society or culture, to "make life peaceful and just" that is not already covered by God's Eternal Moral Law the Ten Commandments?


God's Eternal Moral Law is never outdated. Nor can it be "made to fit" for the convience of man.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc



 
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Lebesgue

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Sabbath as a test of loyality... only when you are being tested regarding it. All things of God are a test of loyality. Every one of them will be tested as to your loyality to Him, His Word and His Kingdom. Teaching otherwise... will get you in the "least" line up.

I agree with you, Visionary. Remember, though, that SDAs have a different view on this than we Messianics do.

Happy Purim!

Shalom,

Lebesgue
 
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visionary

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Yes, I am familiar with the prophectic last day challenge of sabbath loyality vs blue laws of man that they see coming here in the future and is prophetically fortold in Daniel and Revelation. Still doesn't change the issue of loyality and what it takes to show it. We must be loyal to God in all matters.
 
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fated

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fated you said:This statement now begs the question; Do you find any law, that was ever enacted by a society or culture, to "make life peaceful and just" that is not already covered by God's Eternal Moral Law the Ten Commandments?

God's Eternal Moral Law is never outdated. Nor can it be "made to fit" for the convience of man.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc



I don't think it begs the question. You want to shift focus to the ten commandments. If that is what you want to do, then why not just say that?

You want to talk about the Sabbath? And your assertion that following the letter of the law is more important than Christian unity and ancient tradition in the laws interpretation, thereby making the Sabbath on Saturday, as instituted a test of loyalty. I suppose what this comes down too, is that people who follow more commandment more closely are more likely to get to Heaven.

We have a very different philosophy here. I believe that the Sabbath was instituted with the intent of, among other things, community unity and was changed by the Resurrection and the Apostles. You probably know this.

Now, understanding that this is what I believe is the intent of the law, I was asking for ways in which one can better observe the Sabbath.

Regarding the old laws, the commandments did not come with punishments and costs, however, other laws did. These are like the secular laws of society, where certain actions are restricted to protect peace and other things encouraged to instill unity.

When we get into God's judgment, many of the derivatives of these laws and understanding their moral value will be important for us to understand, and are likely to bring us into greater unity with God, and thereby entrance into Heaven. However, not all are besieged the same concupiscence, that is, the disposition to sin. Not all are given the same graces, and graces given are not always tied to objective holiness.

I think that demanding the Sabbath on Saturday is no less morally tenuous than regarding the Sunday Lord's Day be kept as an act of unity.

In any case, allowing the Sabbath to build ones pride unjustly defeats the meaning of the law. Obviously, it should be done in all humility (not that you haven't - I recognize and respect the attempt at gentle guidance).

I think I understand, but my question was about how one rightly observes the Sabbath.

May the Peace and Joy of our Lord, Jesus Christ, be with you.
 
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TrustAndObey

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fated said:
Regarding the old laws, the commandments did not come with punishments and costs, however, other laws did. These are like the secular laws of society, where certain actions are restricted to protect peace and other things encouraged to instill unity.

I recall verses about a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath and about the earth opening up and swallowing others.

I'll have to go find those.
 
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RND

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I agree with you, Visionary. Remember, though, that SDAs have a different view on this than we Messianics do.

Happy Purim!

Shalom,

Lebesgue

You should be reminded here that the "Traditional" forum is not a debate or 'run down the SDA's' forum. Please stay on topic. If you must comment on what SDA's believe in or don't, take it to another thread in the approved sections.

The Traditional SDA subforum is limited to debate among those Seventh-day Adventists who agree with all 28 Fundamental Beliefs. Non-members may only post in fellowship.
 
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visionary

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Comune with God.... it is a date in which He promises to come to us. Remember the visit in the cool of the evening back in the garden of Eden... I believe that was a date with God.

Sabbath is not just us praying to Him which we should be doing without ceasing anyway. This time God set aside and made it holy, sanctifying it, was His choice, all we can do is be there to receive the blessing within.

How should we observe the sabbath...

Keep it simple. For Yeshua's example..

Mr 6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?


Rest from labor (I let you work out in your own mind with God what "labor" entails... ]

Ex 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

Ex 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

My all time favorite is....

Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
 
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TrustAndObey

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Comune with God.... it is a date in which He promises to come to us. Remember the visit in the cool of the evening back in the garden of Eden... I believe that was a date with God.

Sabbath is not just us praying to Him which we should be doing without ceasing anyway. This time God set aside and made it holy, sanctifying it, was His choice, all we can do is be there to receive the blessing within.

How should we observe the sabbath...

Keep it simple. For Yeshua's example..

Mr 6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?


Rest from labor (I let you work out in your own mind with God what "labor" entails... ]

Ex 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

Ex 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

My all time favorite is....

Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Beautiful!
 
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TrustAndObey

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Yeah ... like him... And they say God doesn't have a sense of humor. ^_^

7914232767.jpg


I read an article about this dog, who won the "Ugliest Dog Alive" award, and he knows he's a celebrity everywhere he goes. He STRUTS! HAHA
 
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