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Is the power of Healing still with us?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Yauming, Feb 8, 2002.

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  1. Yauming

    Yauming Member

    368
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    This is a controversial topic. But is the power of healing that was displayed during the time of Jesus and his Apostles still around today?

    I do believe it is. But I do not believe the theory that if people have "enough faith" they will be healed. Of course, healing cannot come without faith. But on the other hand, faith does not automatically bring healing.

    Healing comes through the power of God. God can still chose not to exercise His power.

    Cheers,

    YM
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

    328
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    I agree that healing is for today. I've seen it, not just once or twice, but many, many times.

    But obviously we are missing something. I can't recall ANY scripture in which Jesus refuses to heal anyone who requests it. On the other hand Paul advises Timothy to take wine for a chronic stomach condition. I don't think we can accuse Paul of a lack of faith. Perhaps this is a case where Timothy was drinking polluted water, and as long as the cause of the problem was present and ongoing the problem couldn't be resolved until the source was eliminated. (imagine a smoker dying of lung cancer who refuses to give up smoking). This is pure speculation so don't hammer me too hard if you disagree.

    I do believe that lack of faith is part of the reason some don't receive healing. But it isn't always necessary for the afflicted person to have faith, obviously Lazarus didn't have faith to be raised from the dead, it was the faith of Jesus which accomplished the miracle.

    Paraphrasing scripture, Jesus tells a person who was healed to go and sin no more lest a worse thing befall them, establishes a link between disease and sin, so it is possible that unresolved or ongoing sin could prevent healing from taking place.

    Also note that in several instances things which we would consider to be disease or handicap to be healed, Jesus considered to be the work of unclean spirits that needed to be cast out. Perhaps, sometimes, if we're praying for healing we should really be considering casting out spirits.

    So, the only other exception I can think of is the thorn in the flesh that tormented Paul. There is much debate as to whether this was actually a physical infirmity or not, so based on this scripture we cannot say for sure that God uses sickness to keep a person humble, and even if He does, I don't think there are very many people around who compare to Paul and need a constant reminder that they are only human.

    So, if a person doens't receive healing we see that it might not be a matter of faith, nor to a fickle God who decides to heal some and keep some sick. There are other factors that need to be explored as well.
     
  3. BK_30

    BK_30 secret agent:licensed to witness

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    I don't believe that it is a fickle God, I see some prayer's answered in a way that we don't like sometimes though. It may not be his will to heal someone because of something else further along in the big picture, or he may heal them by taking them home...you can't ask for a better healing than to never be sick again.
     
  4. berean_315

    berean_315 New Member

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    I agree with what has been stated so far. That God can and does still heal today, but there is no guarantee as some in the WOF make it seem. Some were healed in the NT who couldn't exhibit faith (dead, asleep). The man born blind who was healed by Jesus didn't even know who Jesus was. The Bible does say that faith is required, but in some cases it says Jesus had compassion on a person and healed them. Jesus healed multitudes; was everybody's faith at a high enough level and had no uncnfessed sin, etc.? I don't think so.

    I used to attend Lakewood Church pastored by John Osteen who was friends with Kenneth Copeland and other WOF teachers. Pastor Osteen became ill and eventually died of kidney complications while in his 70's. Kenneth Copeland spoke at his memorial service. I do not think it was a lack of faith on pastor Osteen's part that he wasn't healed, but due to the sovereignty of God. As a result of this, and a death of a cousin to cancer at 18, it caused me to look further into this subject. I don't claim to have all the answers, but wrote a paper to capture what I had read on the subject. If interested, it is on my website at

    http://www.geocities.com/berean_315/Papers.htm

    Many people who believed in the WOF teachings on faith and healing have died in their sickness. Jamie Buckingham's testimony appeared in Charisma magazine about his "healing":

    "One day my wife …suddenly spoke aloud [and] said, “Your healing was purchased at the cross.”…Here is what I discovered. You have what you speak . If you want to change something, you must believe it enough to speak it…If you talk poverty, you'll have it. If you say you're sick, you'll be (and remain) sick. was not mine. It was the devil's. I didn't have cancer. I had Jesus. The cancer was trying to have me, but the Word of God said I was healed through what Jesus did on Calvary…It was a Friday afternoon. The tape was an Oral Roberts' sermon…I came up off the sofa, shouting, “I'm healed!” My wife leaped out of her chair and shouted, “Hallelujah!” For the next 30 minutes all we did was walk around the house shouting thanks to God and proclaiming my healing. "


    This was also after his wife and some Charismatic leaders, including Oral Roberts, prophesied that he would be healed. Buckingham also claimed that God also spoke to him in the shower and told him that he would live to be "at least 100 years of age in good health and with clear mind." However, ten months after the publication of this article, on February 17, 1992, Jamie Buckingham died of cancer at the age of fifty-nine.

    Oral Roberts lost his tenth grandson soon after birth, even though he, Kenneth Hagin and others combined their faith to pray for him. Oral Roberts along with William Branham were considered the two greatest healing evangelists of the era of the traveling Evangelists from the late 1940’s to the late 1950’s. David E. Harrell says the following about this in his book

    "Within a few hours after his birth, doctors discovered the child was having difficulty breathing. The news, Evelyn recalled, “just tore Oral to pieces.” For over thirty hours, while doctors fought to save the baby, Oral, Richard, and others prayed. Lindsay was wheeled up to the baby's side to pray; Kenneth Hagin and his wife, and other ministers, came to pray for healing . When Richard Oral finally died, on January 19, it “devastated Oral.” He called it the worst tragedy of his scarred life. “I think” Evelyn reflected, “because he felt there was so much healing power in that room that they could have healed a thousand people …But he said there was something in that baby and he got it as far as the head and it would not leave…Some obstacle would not leave. It was stubborn.”

    "The family once again faced misfortune bravely, searching for meaning in the death. They immediately announced the addition of an obstetrics suite in the City of Faith Medical Center in memory of Richard Oral Roberts."

    Why was their high level of faith not enough to heal this little baby? As shown in the New Testament, the faith of others healed those who were sick.


    Sorry to be long-winded, but this is my take on it.

    Gerald
     
  5. edjones

    edjones Active Member

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    "As shown in the New Testament, the faith of others healed those who were sick. "

    James 5
    14
    Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
    15
    And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
    16
    Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
     
  6. Apologist

    Apologist 2 Tim. 2:24-26

    +10
    Christian
    Great post Gerald! I couldn't agree more brother. What these people in the WOF movement fail to recognize is that our hope is not in the here and now. Even if God healed us of every disease we may get we will still die one day as a result of sin because of the fall of mankind back in Genesis.
    Our hope is in the life to come that is described in Revelation 21:1-4: Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
    The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.

    That, my friend, is the hope we are looking for.

    God Bless you Gerald
     
  7. marmaladePRO

    marmaladePRO Active Member

    835
    +6
    Non-Denom
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    "our hope is not in the here and now. Even if God healed us of every disease we may get we will still die one day as a result of sin because of the fall of mankind back in Genesis."
    are you suggesting that that is a reason or excuse as to why Healing may not be Gods will? :confused:
    i agree that our hope does not need to be hear and now because we can expectantly have eternity in the presence of our God, but i must temper that persepctive in myself with the glorious manifestation of his Healing (physical too) that he has brought to pass in my life, and in the life of my family... i don't for a second believe i would be any better than any other believer... in fact if i were keeping score i might be very disheartened and asshamed :( (praise God i ain't gettin' in on my works alone) but i do KNOW that God is love, and therefore he LOVES me :) and i cherish that, i love the nature of God.
    i'm not offering rules and regulations and i'm not argueing "my way or no way"... what i do believe is that: if God is in fact soveriegn then presuming he can't or dosen't do this or that could be as incorrect as demanding that God DO this or that, Without getting into a debate of this WOF refferred to, that would make another thread ;).
    we have all been redeemed form the curse of the law. God shows me his perfect will in that he desires ALL men be saved... i am lead to believe that based on that same outpouring of love, it would be Gods will that healing be a reality... regardless of what anyone, including myself believe about the subject...

    "healing cannot come without faith. But on the other hand, faith does not automatically bring healing. "
    i am not challenging this statement so much as adding refference to it :) scripture's that comes to mind as i ponder this further are : without faith it is impossible to please God : with God nothing shall be impossible...

    intriguing thread, God bless...
     
  8. Blynn

    Blynn Well-Known Member

    +77
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    I also believe that God heals today, but I believe in praying 'Thy will not mine be done"


    Gerald I read the two e-mail letters that you sent to Lakeland Church and Kenneth Copeland Ministries. I would like to commend you on doing so.


    I too am troubled by what I have heard and seen with the teachings on healing in the WOF movement.


    God Bless,
    Roberta
     
  9. Apologist

    Apologist 2 Tim. 2:24-26

    +10
    Christian
    I never meant that Jace. I believe God can and does heal as He sees fit. My point is that we live in a cursed creation and sickness and death are the norm for this space-time continuum, healing is not. A miracle occurs when God steps into the normal course of things and interupts it.
    I think Paul summed it up in Romans 8:18-25 as to our real hope:

    18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
    The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.

    That was my point.

    God Bless
     
  10. Yauming

    Yauming Member

    368
    +1
    I wish to God that the power of healing comes ALWAYS through an exercise of simple faith.

    I wish that if a Christian is good and sincere enough, if that Christian is close to God enough, and he had super Christ-like faith, whenever he prayed for healing in the name of Jesus, it would ALWAYS come.

    But I am reminded that even Jesus's prayers were not answered. He Himself prayed in the Garden that the "cup" that was presented to him would be taken away, and that he would not have to endure the trial of crucification and death.

    I wish that healing comes 90% of the time when good godly Christian men and women pray for it. But it seems that it comes only 10% of the time.

    God bless.

    YM
     
  11. marmaladePRO

    marmaladePRO Active Member

    835
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    thank you for the reply apologist... :) i appreciate you clarifying for me... thats cool, and a great scripture ref too!
    "
    I never meant that Jace. I believe God can and does heal as He sees fit. My point is that we live in a cursed creation and sickness and death are the norm for this space-time continuum, healing is not. A miracle occurs when God steps into the normal course of things and interupts it.
    I think Paul summed it up in Romans 8:18-25 as to our real hope: "

    "healing is not" that is why it is a miracle!!! :D thank you
     
  12. Apologist

    Apologist 2 Tim. 2:24-26

    +10
    Christian
    Glad I could be of help Jace. That verse is fantastic isn't it?
    I love the book of Romans and would venture to say it is my favorite (If that's possible), book in the bible. It is a theological masterpiece! I have Dr. Donald Barnhouse's 4-volume commentary set on Romans and it is a wealth of information.

    God Bless
     
  13. berean_315

    berean_315 New Member

    35
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    [B]"I also believe that God heals today, but I believe in praying 'Thy will not mine be done"

    "But I am reminded that even Jesus's prayers were not answered. He Himself prayed in the Garden that the "cup" that was presented to him would be taken away, and that he would not have to endure the trial of crucification and death ."[/B]

    Yes, even Jesus yielded to the Father's will. I still struggle with being fervent and consistent in praying for healing. I heard a minister portray God as a Father who loves us and wants the best for us and because of this we should come to Him with our requests for healing. Not a demand or faith formula, but a request to Him as a Father who wants to provide for us.


    "I never meant that Jace. I believe God can and does heal as He sees fit. My point is that we live in a cursed creation and sickness and death are the norm for this space-time continuum, healing is not. A miracle occurs when God steps into the normal course of things and interupts it.
    I think Paul summed it up in Romans 8:18-25 as to our real hope: "


    Well said.


    Gerald
     
  14. JOhnPreparer

    JOhnPreparer Member

    257
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    1 Cor 12:1-11
    THese verses talks about the spiritual gifting and promises of God of giving to it to us as we receives the Holy Spirit (the power from above that Jesus promised). One of the Spiritual gifting is the gifting of healing. I believe that healing is still happening in churches as it is written in the bible (God's word) and the testimonies that I heard from my church and other churches, I cannot deny the existance of the power to heal. The power to heal will be given just if the people ask from the Giver (The Father) Mat 7:7 and Luke 11:13
     
  15. camaro540

    camaro540 Regular Member

    318
    +0
    Messianic
    Hello all

    I would like to share something with you, I was affraid of another
    possible bashing, but after thinking for awhile, I don't care if I
    get bashed for this or not.

    I will try not to go into great detail here, but here it goes.....

    I, without doubt, believe in the Healing Power of YHVH. I and my
    wife have recieved healings from Him, and there is no way to say
    other wise.

    But, I also believe in commen sense to. YHVH has reason's for
    everything He does, sometimes we just don't see the reason's
    right off the start.... Here's why I believe this:

    I used heroin for many years of my life. When I finaly got clean,
    I weighed about 100 Lbs. I am 6 foot tall, and I know weigh
    210 or so. This gives you an idea of how bad off I was. My habit
    cost me between $300-$500 a day just to feel "normal".

    When I made a choice to turn my life back to YHVH, I prayed for
    a healing, went to every clinic I could find, was put on all kinds
    of drugs to get me away from heroin, ect, ect.

    Needless to say, I couldnt get away from this addiction. It owned
    me. But, one day while crying, and being so sick, I looked up to
    YHVH and asked "what am I to do here?" "I ask you, over & over
    to heal me of this crap, and you do nothing!!!"

    Well, I had a little over $130 in my pocket, enough for my next
    fix, and I can't explane it, but for lack of a better way to explane
    it, I heard YHVH tell me to buy a buss ticket out of town. I thought
    to myself, "yea, but to where? " But, I just said, well, lets do this.

    So down to the buss station I went. I ended up buying a ticket to
    the little town of where I now live. A population of about 500. LOL
    It cost me $86 to get there, and I bought a tent with what I had
    left. YHVH led me to an area that had no one around for miles, and
    I put my tent up and began my withdrawl stages.

    I won't go into all of the withdrawl stuff, but I want to say this.
    Through this experience, God was with me every step of the way.
    In the times I was so sick I couldnt see straight, He would lead me
    outside, and show me all the beautiful things He had created, and
    what I was about to gain by following Him, and not this addiction.
    After a few days, I started to get my smell back, and I could not
    believe how beautiful a pine tree smelled.... It made me weep.
    Thank you Father for Loving me so much.

    Okay, my point for all of this is this:

    Had our Father just snapped His fingers, and healed me instantly,
    He knew I would have been right back to that junk. I am a hard
    head, and He knew it was going to take some suffering for me to
    gain something, that ment something to me, something that I
    would hold on to with everything that I am. I had to earn that, I
    had to pay a price for it, and believe me, it wasn't free...

    After all this, YHVH has given more to me then I could ever tell in
    the little space of this forum. A beautiful Wife who love Jesus. An
    awesome baby boy (Michael). A great job. Healed my Wife of a
    cancer in her womb. And more/more/more

    And all this was done by simply following His guidence, and by prayer.
    By reading His word, and doing our best to follow His instruction.
    He is AWESOME, and I love Him with all my heart.

    Sorry for this being so long, but, YES, GOD STILL HEALS TODAY !!!
    In JESUS name !!!

    Patrick
     
  16. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    >>On the other hand Paul advises Timothy to take wine for a chronic stomach condition.

    I can think of a lot of possibilities. Perhaps Pauls advice worked and the "wine" cured the problem. There was one guy who was told to dip in the Jordon 7 times and he was cured.

    Also, just Timothy having a tummy ache, does not mean it was God's will for him. It could be that he did not eat proper. I believe we would all benifit to follow the teaching of Moses on diet, and a lot of "modern" medical doctors say that we would do well to eat according to the teaching of the Bible. Or perhaps Timothy worried a bit and did not trust God the way he could or should have. I know there are people today that have tummy aches because they worry to much.

    I suppose the bad water theory could explain the problem. But there was a story in Scripture about when they threw a branch into the bitter water and it was turned sweet. This was a type of the cross, and showed how Jesus and the cross can turn the bitter waters of our life sweet. Thanks, JohnR7
     
  17. JohnR7

    JohnR7 Well-Known Member

    +191
    Pentecostal
    Married
    That is an awesome testimony camaro540. I can see that Jesus turned the bitter waters of your life sweet. Thanks so very much for sharing with us. I know what you mean that sometimes we do not want to share things, but I am sure there are those who will benifit from hearing what God has done for you. Thanks, JohnR7
     
  18. Blynn

    Blynn Well-Known Member

    +77
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    I too am glad that you shared your testimony.

    Praise God for all of the miracles in your life. :) And yes God still does heal today.



    God Bless you Patrick,
    Roberta
     
  19. kimanne

    kimanne New Member

    47
    +0
    Yes, if faith were a direct line to healing, alot of us would really be healthy! I used to wish it were that easy. But now I believe that many of us go through illness or even hardship to receive more than just healing. When I have had physical ailments (a couple quite scary), I have easily gone to my knees because there's no where else to go, no one else to trust, no one else who loves me like the Lord does. Not the doctors, not the nurses, not the family... no one. He not only provides healing sometimes, but many times He gives us wisdom, empathy, trust, increase in faith, compassion, and inner peace when we might never have experienced those things on such a level had we not experienced the illness/surgury/speculation on diagnosis/possible death/fear/recovery, etc. in the first place.

    I'll share a story with you, it's my own miracle. Some of you will probably think I'm a little off, but it doesn't matter because I got His message...

    I few years back I had highly elevated liver enzymes. The gastroenterologist kept putting me through tests and they kept coming back negative. He finally told me that although all the tests weren't back, he thought I had a degenerative liver. I was really scared because I felt that it would mean a liver transplant, and then death. I really believed I would die. And I had a wonderful husband and a young son. It seems so unfair. So I spent a whole day, crying, and praying, and asking God why. For such a happy, trusting, optimistic Christian, I was really pitiful, crying and feeling devastated. So I took some towels up to the office to fold in the back of the house so my son wouldn't hear me crying. I never folded towels there. And while I was folding and crying, I happened to look out the window, and saw a small boy playing on my son's wooden swing/fort, in 30 degree weather. To make a long story short, I was finally able to help this little three year old boy find his home, three streets over, and the mother was hysterical and neighbors had been searching for 25 minutes. As I was trekking through the snow on my way home (crying and towels long forgotten), I marveled at how strange it was that I had been in that office, at that time, and saw a small boy, very lost. I realized that he could have gone to the front of my house, across the street into the acres and acres of woods, and the consequences could have been deadly.

    Just then, I heard these thoughts in my head, "I have given you a distraction. Now instead of worrying about something that may never happen, just be grateful for the blessings I have given to you." I actually stopped walking. Did I think that or was God talking to me?? Talking directly to me? And I remembered the words, "I have given you a distraction." It was God using my thoughts - I was sure of it. I raced home, deleriously happy! I called my husband at work and told him I knew I would be fine, whether I lived or died, because God had spoken to me. I relayed all that had happened. Hubby said all the right words, but with hesitation and I knew he was wondering if his wife was off her rocker. But I didn't care, because I GOT THE MESSAGE! Turned out I had a "fatty liver" and with dropping a few pounds, I was fine. Now maybe it was something different and God also healed my liver and that was a true miracle. And if that was the case, I'm grateful. But that didn't matter to me, because whether I lived or died, I got the message. I have since had a couple health problems, and I can honestly say that I have not worried about them. I've had the tests, and was not desperate for the results. Because I got the message. The Lord loves me, and I have to put all of my trust, all of my faith in Him. Sometimes it's not the healing that is miraculous. And even though I am sinner, unworthy of heaven, I am enormously grateful for the grace given to me, and for all of my blessings, even the hardships, because... I got the message. God bless you all. ~kim
     
  20. Yauming

    Yauming Member

    368
    +1
    That's an amazing story man! Wow, God is good!

    You should send your testimony to a Christian journal or newspaper to encourage other people.

    God bless you,

    YM


     
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