Is the fourth commandment done away with? (Moved)

[RND]

i'm thinking the fact Paul actually said the word "Day"...is a sticking point.so out comes the "Jesus is God" thingy....lol

Paul said 'day' just not 'sabbath day'.

 

[RND]

looool.when you say "no day is special".that pretty much includes the 7th day.

Paul didn't say that regarding worship but eating.

 

[mont974x4]

Actually the context was worship.

 

[RND]

Actually the context was worship.

Nope.

Rom 14:1 ¶
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations.

Rom 14:2
For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.


Most Christians don't center their worship around what they eat.

 

[RND]

mont974x4
God ordained anti-pope

Tell me, why go to church the day the Pope told you to go?

“Is not every Christian obliged to sanctify Sunday and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this law among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.” James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers (1917 edition), p. 72-73 (16th Edition, p 111; 88th Edition, p. 89).

“For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the [Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible.” Catholic Virginian, October 3, 1947, p. 9, article “To Tell You the Truth.”

“Most Christians assume that Sunday is the biblically approved day of worship. The Catholic Church protests that it transferred Christian worship from the biblical Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday, and that to try to argue that the change was made in the Bible is both dishonest and a denial of Catholic authority. If Protestantism wants to base its teachings only on the Bible, it should worship on Saturday.” Rome’s Challenge www.immaculateheart.com/maryonline Dec 2003

“Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claim to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles...From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.” Catholic Press, Sydney, Australia, August 1900.

“They [the Protestants] deem it their duty to keep the Sunday holy. Why? Because the Catholic Church tells them to do so. They have no other reason...The observance of Sunday thus comes to be an ecclesiastical law entirely distinct from the divine law of Sabbath observance...The author of the Sunday law...is the Catholic Church.” Ecclesiastical Review, February 1914.

“The Sunday...is purely a creation of the Catholic Church.” American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883.

“It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.” Priest Brady, in an address reported in The News, Elizabeth, New Jersey, March 18, 1903.

“Sunday...is the law of the Catholic Church alone...” American Sentinel (Catholic), June 1893.

 

[mont974x4]

I don't go on the day the pope says to go. I go on the days my brothers and sisters are able and willing to fellowship together.


When Paul talks about the days it is in the context of getting together for fellowship and worship and proper religious acts. He denounces the rigid legalism of men and focuses on our freedom we have in Christ. Paul simply uses food as an example.

nasb
Col 2:6 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
Col 2:7 having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.
Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
Col 2:9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
Col 2:10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
Col 2:11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
Col 2:12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
Col 2:13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
Col 2:14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Col 2:15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--
Col 2:17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
Col 2:19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
Col 2:20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
Col 2:21 "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!"
Col 2:22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)--in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
Col 2:23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.


Rom 14:1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.
Rom 14:2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
Rom 14:3 The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.
Rom 14:4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.
Rom 14:7 For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;
Rom 14:8 for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
Rom 14:10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."
Rom 14:12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

 

[RND]

I don't go on the day the pope says to go. I go on the days my brothers and sisters are able and willing to fellowship together.

Nope. You go when the Pope says so. Sad things is you don't really know why you go to church on Sunday.
What would stop your brothers and sisters from going on the Sabbath? Nothing? Not willing?

When Paul talks about the days it is in the context of getting together for fellowship and worship and proper religious acts. He denounces the rigid legalism of men and focuses on our freedom we have in Christ. Paul simply uses food as an example.

Nope. Paul never missed a sabbath day.


Is the Creation Sabbath the same as “the sabbaths which are a shadow of things to come” in Colossians 2:14-17?

This is one of the most misused passages in the entire New Testament. “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us ... nailing it to his cross.” (Verse 14). The law that was “blotted out” and nailed to the cross was not the Ten Commandments. Luke 16:17-18; Romans 7:7, 12; James 2:10-12. It was the “handwriting” of the “law” of sacrifices written by “Moses” in “a book” which was a continual witness “against” Israel. Deuteronomy 31:24-26. This law of sacrifices was “against them” because its very existence was a witness that they had broken the Ten Commandments. That's why they needed to offer lambs.

“Therefore,” wrote Paul in Colossians 2:16. “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come.” Verses 16-17. Paul here refers to the Jewish “feasts ... meat offerings ... drink offerings” AND YEARLY “SABBATHS” OF THE CEREMONIAL LAW. Leviticus 23:37, 24, 32, 38. These yearly sabbaths, like the Passover and the Day of Atonement, were “shadows” pointing forward to Jesus Christ. Hebrews 10:1 also affirms that it was the ceremonial law with its yearly sabbaths and “sacrifices” that was a “shadow.” Hebrews 10:1.

The Ten Commandments and the Creation Sabbath are NOT A SHADOW pointing forward to Jesus. The seventh day Sabbath POINTS BACK to the creation of the world and remains in the New Testament. Exodus 20:11; Matthew 24:20; Luke 23:56. Paul continued to keep this Sabbath. Acts 16:13.

What About “One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike” in Romans 14:5?

To begin with, it must be admitted that the word “Sabbath” is not found in the entire chapter. People assume Paul is talking about the Sabbath. But is he really? The chapter begins, “Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.” Romans 14:1. The NKJV reads, “disputes over doubtful things.” This chapter concerns “doubtful things” and is not a discussion of the Ten Commandments. The “Big Ten” are not “doubtful,” but exceedingly dear, written with the finger of God on two tables of stone.

The “weak” brother “eats” some things and “esteems one day above another” while the strong brother believes that he may “eat all things” and “esteems every day alike.” Romans 14:2, 5. The early Church was made up of Jewish believers and Gentile converts. Although Paul did not specify what “days” he was referring to, he was probably talking about the “esteemting” or “not esteeming” of certain Jewish fast or feast days (Luke 18:12), and certain pagan feast days when people were especially “eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols.” 1 Corinthians 8:4.

A “strong” Jew who knew that “an idol is nothing” would have no scruples about eating “meat in an idols temple” on a pagan feast day. 1 Corinthians 8-4, 10. Paul warned these “strong” Jewish believers, “But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to them that are weak [the Gentile convert from idolatry]. For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple [on a pagan feast day], shall not the conscience of him that is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; and through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish [if he is drawn back to idolatry], for whom Christ died. But when ye sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth.” 1 Corinthians 8:9-13.

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE that the discussion about “the weak and the strong” in Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8 has ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE SABBATH. God has never said “one man may choose to esteem MY Sabbath, while another man may choose to esteem Sunday, or every day alike.” He has not left it up to us to “pick a day, any day.” Rather, God has commanded, “Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy ... the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God.” Exodus 20:8, 10. The book of Romans is very clear, “by the law is the knowledge of sin.” Romans 3:20; 7:7, 12.

 

[mont974x4]

Paul was a Jew and he went to the synaguge to preach the Gospel.


No Gentile believer is commanded to keep it.

You are in sin for condemning people on this issue.

 

[RND]

Paul was a Jew and he went to the synaguge to preach the Gospel.

Yep.

No Gentile believer is commanded to keep it.

Yes they are. But the gentiles do so willingly.

Isa 56:6 ¶
Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

You are in sin for condemning people on this issue.

Haven't condemned anyone. Just pointing out truth.

John 4:24
God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

You should read your sig sometime: "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ."

 

[mont974x4]

Show me where I am commanded to keep it. And while you're at it, show me how I am supposed to keep it.


Right now you are in violation of Col 2 and Romans 14.



BTW
nasb
Rom 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
Rom 8:3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
Rom 8:4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

 

[RND]

Show me where I am commanded to keep it.

See Exodus 20:8-11

And while you're at it, show me how I am supposed to keep it.

How to Keep the Sabbath Holy
1) The Sabbath is a Special Day to Focus on Jesus Christ.
John was “in the spirit on the Lord's day.” Revelation 1:10. Jesus is “Lord even of the sabbath day.” Matthew 12:8. “The seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord.” Exodus 20:10. God calls it “my holy day.” Isaiah 58:13. The Sabbath .was made for man” when “God ... created all things by Jesus Christ.” Mark 2:27; Ephesians 3:9 (KJV). Jesus made the world in six days and “rested on the seventh day.” See Genesis 1; 2:2; Colossians 1:16. Thus the Sabbath is a special day to focus on the Jesus Christ as the Creator and Sustainer of all life. It is a day to come apart from the normal stresses and cares of everyday living, to be refreshed and blessed by the great Creator who loves and died for us.

2) “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work.” Exodus 20:8-10.
This is the Fourth Commandment. We are to work at our normal jobs during the six working days, but from sundown Friday night until sundown Saturday night, we should “not do any work.” Late Friday afternoon, after Jesus died, “the sabbath drew on.” Luke 23:54. Then Christ's followers “rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.” Luke 23:56. Secular business should be laid aside. Shopping, laundry, homework, and housecleaning should be done during the six working days. The Bible also calls buying and selling on the Sabbath an “evil thing.” Nehemiah 13:15-22.

The Lord says, “If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath [from walking on it], from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord honourable; and shalt honor him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord ... for the mouth of the Lord has spoken it.” Isaiah 58:13-14. The Pharisees made the Sabbath a burden, but Jesus wants us to “call the sabbath a delight,” and to “delight” ourselves in Him. Sabbath-keeping is something we “grow into” as Jesus teaches us how to “keep it holy.”

3) Friday is “the preparation day.” Luke 23:54.
The “preparation day” is a good day for dusting, ironing and housecleaning. When the sun sets our minds should be free from care to focus on Jesus. In the wilderness, the Lord instructed Israel to “bake what you bake” on the day before the Sabbath. Exodus 16:23-29. Paul specifically said the history of Israel in the wilderness is “an example” for us “upon whom the ends of the world are come.” 1 Corinthians 10:6, 11. If a special meal is planned for the Sabbath, it would be good to do as much of the cooking as possible on Friday.

4) Jesus was in “the synagogue on the sabbath day.” Luke 4:16.
Jesus worshiped with the people of God every Sabbath. Luke 4:16, 31-32. We should not “forsake the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is.” Hebrews 10:25. In “the new earth ... from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.” Isaiah 66:22-23. We all need the blessing of “fellowship” with other believers who love Jesus and want to keep His commandments. Exodus 20:6; John 14:15; 1 John 1:7.

5) Jesus said, “it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.” Matthew 12:12.
Jesus healed and helped many people on the Sabbath. See Mark 1:21-27; Matthew 12:10-13; Luke 13:10-17. The Sabbath is a good day to visit the sick, help someone in need, etc. Thus we can follow the example of Jesus.

6) “For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth ... and rested on the seventh day. Wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.” Exodus 20:11.
The Sabbath is a wonderful day to enjoy the beautiful things of nature. Take the children for a walk in the park. Relax under a tree. Read the Bible by a stream or lake. Enjoy special fellowship with the One would said, “Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them.” Ezekiel 20:12. The Sabbath reveals the glorious truth that the One who created our entire world in six days, and rested on the seventh, is also able to re-create our hearts back into His own image. See Genesis 1:26; Psalms 51:10; Ephesians 4:21-24.

7) What if I have to work on the Sabbath?
Kindly approach your employer and say, “I can no longer work on the Sabbath. How can we work around this?” Tens of thousands have done this. Most employers will accommodate firm religious convictions. Even if you lose your job, God will help you find another one. Study Daniel 3. God blessed the three Hebrews who refused to break the Second Commandment. At the end of the chapter, they were promoted. If you stand up for Jesus, He will stand up for you. If you are the only member in your family who wants to keep the Sabbath, don't push it on them. Jesus will guide and help you step by step if you look to Him for direction and strength. See Psalms 29:11.

Right now you are in violation of Col 2 and Romans 14.

Who's condemning whom?

Neither are commandments. Can't be in "violation" of something that isn't a commandment.

BTW
nasb
Rom 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
Rom 8:3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
Rom 8:4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

The Spirit of Christ prevents people from breaking the law. I get it. We walk in the 'spirit' not by sight. We love those that are unlovable, we pay attention to all of Christ's commandments, not just those that we want to.

Rom 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The law is righteous. How we act towards it shows others how the law is fulfilled in us by the Spirit. Easy.

If you would have gone down just a few more verses you would have read:

Rom 8:7
Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[mont974x4]

I am not bound by that Law. See Acts 15 for what is required of Gentile believers.


You are in violation. You insist that we're not free in an area that Scripture plainly shows that we are free.


We rest, we fellowship, we engage in corporate worship....that is all that is required. No special day or agenda required.

 

[RND]

I am not bound by that Law.

Can you murder? Lie? Worship idols? Covet your neighbors goods? You are fully under the law if you break the law.

See Acts 15 for what is required of Gentile believers.

The Jerusalem council didn't mention murder, lying, coveting, dishonoring parents, or stealing.

Were they condoning these behaviors?
Why are they (2) Mosaic laws required to be observed by the Gentiles?

You are in violation. You insist that we're not free in an area that Scripture plainly shows that we are free.

You aren't free to break any law you want!

We rest, we fellowship, we engage in corporate worship....that is all that is required. No special day or agenda required.

Sounds like the religion of man and not the commandments of God.

 

[mont974x4]

The other 9 of the 10 are recommande din the NT. The Sabbath is the only one not recommanded.


Why do you think that is? Maybe because we are the Temple? Maybe because we worship when and where we please because He is always with us? Maybe because we no longer need an earthly priest?

 

[RND]

The other 9 of the 10 are recommande din the NT. The Sabbath is the only one not recommanded.

So it the 9 Commanments now?

Why do you think that is?

I don't. I think they have all been mentioned in the NT.

Maybe because we are the Temple?

Hbr 10:25
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Maybe because we worship when and where we please because He is always with us?

"We please...?" When is worship ever about what "you please?"

Maybe because we no longer need an earthly priest?

Being that you are an earthly priest what standard do you use in pointing out another's sin to them? Your laws or God's laws?

Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The saints keep the commandments of God and the Faith of Jesus.

 

[mont974x4]

We don't forsake the gathering.

Why do you have such a hard time accepting the freedom that we have on many issues?

Yes, it is as we please, in many respects. Scripture clearly shows that the day doesn't matter.


Scripture is the standard..not your legalistic interpretation of it, but the actual Word.

 

[RND]

We don't forsake the gathering.

You just meet on the wrong day.

Why do you have such a hard time accepting the freedom that we have on many issues?

I don't have a hard time accepting the fact that you would rather obey the traditions of men rather than the word of God.

1Jo 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Yes, it is as we please, in many respects. Scripture clearly shows that the day doesn't matter.

Nope. that's another tadition of man.

Scripture is the standard..not your legalistic interpretation of it, but the actual Word.

Is it 'legalistic' not to want to murder or commit adultery?

 

[mont974x4]

As the Scripture I posted clearly says...there is no "wrong day".


However, it is clear that you will twist and deny my posts and Scripture as you wish. Welcome to the ignore list.

 

[RND]

As the Scripture I posted clearly says...there is no "wrong day".

Regarding foods sacrificed to idols. See Acts 15.

Rom 14:2
For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

Rom 14:3
Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

However, it is clear that you will twist and deny my posts and Scripture as you wish. Welcome to the ignore list.

Hey, suit yourself, but didn't you enter this conversation on your own accord? But just because you avert your eyes from the truth does make the truth go away. This isn't peek-a-boo.

Hey, would you like a shoy at $10,000.00? This web site has a contest for finding the missing verse.

www.remantofgod.org - Good Luck!

 

[RND]

From: www.remnantofgod.org

The parable of the woman (woman = church see Jer. 6:2) with the "ten coins" who looses ONE of the coins is actually speaking of the end time Church and the ten commandments! And the ONE lost equals Commandment #4

Luke 15:8-9, "Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it? And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost."

Are you going to do as this "woman" does and rejoice and tell your friends. If so, then YOU are spoken of in PROPHECY! You will become a "REPAIRER OF THE BREACH!"

Isaiah 58:12, "And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in."

The end time Remnant Church has FOUND THAT COIN! And we are rejoicing by telling our "friends!"