Is the fourth commandment done away with? (Moved)

[Duckybill]

Our place is to do as He tells us.

There's no Sabbath command in the NT. In fact, just the opposite.

Colossians 2:16 (NKJV)
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

 

[visionary]

There's no Sabbath command in the NT. In fact, just the opposite.

Colossians 2:16 (NKJV)
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

He is still Lord of the Sabbath..

 

[Duckybill]

He is still Lord of the Sabbath..

True, but there's still no NT Sabbath commands. Why would God send His Son to shed His holy Blood for a New Covenant if we are bound to the Old? The Law of Moses was only for Israel.

 

[visionary]

True, but there's still no NT Sabbath commands. Why would God send His Son to shed His holy Blood for a New Covenant if we are bound to the Old? The Law of Moses was only for Israel.

He sent forth a mighty angel with a loud voice... Worship Him who made heaven and earth.. Now how are you going to do that unless you recognise that it is another way of saying the Sabbath command is alive and well in heaven.. and we should be a reflection of it here on earth..

 

[Duckybill]

He sent forth a mighty angel with a loud voice... Worship Him who made heaven and earth.. Now how are you going to do that unless you recognise that it is another way of saying the Sabbath command is alive and well in heaven.. and we should be a reflection of it here on earth..

How do you get "Sabbath command" out of that?

 

[addo]

Do we really have to obey the Sabbath commands? :

Exodus 31:14-17 (NKJV)
14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.' "

We'd need a LOT of body bags.

This either proves your ignorance or the fact that you don't even know what the Gospel is.

What is the Gospel? The Jesus Christ had to die for us. He died in our stead. Why? Because we sinned (Romans 3:23). If we sinned, we have to die (Romans 6:23). We cannot afford to die, but Jesus can because He has the power to resurrect too. We don't have that power.

What is sin? The transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). Is the Sabbath part of the Law? Yes, it is. The same God that said "thou shalt not murder" (Exodus 20:13) and "thou shalt have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3) said: "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" (Exodus 20:8). Thus breaking the Sabbath is sin. And Jesus Christ had to die in the stead of the Sabbath breaker, which is a sinner.

So it is OK that the Sabbath breaker was to be put to death, because it was a sin, and the penalty for sin is death. But, according to the good news Christ brought, He died for all sinners, and yes, that includes Sabbath breakers. The Law says that the Sabbath breakers (sinners) are to be put to death, but Christ put Himself in the stead of the Sabbath breaker and died in his stead. This is what the Gospel is all about. Christ put Himself in the stead of the sinner and died. Breaking the Sabbath is sin. So your argument doesn't really work.

According to this logic, we can also say that since we don't stone adulterers anymore, the commandment of "thou shalt not commit adultery" (Exodus 20:14) does not apply anymore. But this is not true. It is still in force. We are still forbidden to commit adultery, even though we are not being put to death so soon like in the Law of Moses. But why? Because Christ died in the place of the adulterer. So we can say that the commandment of killing the adulterers isn't done away with, but kept (or fulfilled) in Christ. Because we keep it in Christ. How did we keep it? We still killed the sinner, but Christ took that adulterers sin and died in His place. The commandment is still being kept.

In the same way, we kept the commandment of killing the Sabbath breakers by crucifying Christ. But like in the case of stoning adulterers, even though we don't kill them anymore, that doesn't mean the commandment stopped. We are still not to commit adultery and we are still not to break the Sabbath. Even though the immediate punishment of death is not to be applied by Christians now, that doesn't mean the commandment ceased. So, just because adulterers were killed, does that mean the commandment against adultery stopped? In the same way, just because killing Sabbath breakers stopped (atm), does that mean the commandment stopped as well?

 

[Hismessenger]

I said this once before and say it again. Christ is the sabbath which we are to keep eternally for there will be no days in eternity. This commandment is not made mentiuon of by Christ because he was to become our sabbath rest. The remaining 9 commandments are all covered by the two new commandments which Christ Gave, to Love God with all you heart, mind and soul and to love your neighbor as yourself. No where in these commands can you find the requirement of sacrifice and offerings as was in the ordinances of the Levitical law. Christ fulfilled all of them and himself became the sabbath which we are to keep. Enter into his rest.

hismessenger

 

[Hismessenger]

Sin is not the breaking of the law but the willful rebellion to the will of God. That is the true nature of sin for it can be done in many things which are not written in the law. God told Abraham to leave his fathers house and country.... If Abraham had not followed what God had told him, it would have been sin for it would have been rebellion to the will of God for him to leave his fathers house. There is a lot more to it than this but just to get you to see another aspect of the nature of sin.

hismessenger

 

[bugkiller]

This either proves your ignorance or the fact that you don't even know what the Gospel is.

What is the Gospel? The Jesus Christ had to die for us. He died in our stead. Why? Because we sinned (Romans 3:23). If we sinned, we have to die (Romans 6:23). We cannot afford to die, but Jesus can because He has the power to resurrect too. We don't have that power.

What is sin? The transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). Is the Sabbath part of the Law? Yes, it is. The same God that said "thou shalt not murder" (Exodus 20:13) and "thou shalt have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3) said: "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" (Exodus 20:8). Thus breaking the Sabbath is sin. And Jesus Christ had to die in the stead of the Sabbath breaker, which is a sinner.

So it is OK that the Sabbath breaker was to be put to death, because it was a sin, and the penalty for sin is death. But, according to the good news Christ brought, He died for all sinners, and yes, that includes Sabbath breakers. The Law says that the Sabbath breakers (sinners) are to be put to death, but Christ put Himself in the stead of the Sabbath breaker and died in his stead. This is what the Gospel is all about. Christ put Himself in the stead of the sinner and died. Breaking the Sabbath is sin. So your argument doesn't really work.

According to this logic, we can also say that since we don't stone adulterers anymore, the commandment of "thou shalt not commit adultery" (Exodus 20:14) does not apply anymore. But this is not true. It is still in force. We are still forbidden to commit adultery, even though we are not being put to death so soon like in the Law of Moses. But why? Because Christ died in the place of the adulterer. So we can say that the commandment of killing the adulterers isn't done away with, but kept (or fulfilled) in Christ. Because we keep it in Christ. How did we keep it? We still killed the sinner, but Christ took that adulterers sin and died in His place. The commandment is still being kept.

In the same way, we kept the commandment of killing the Sabbath breakers by crucifying Christ. But like in the case of stoning adulterers, even though we don't kill them anymore, that doesn't mean the commandment stopped. We are still not to commit adultery and we are still not to break the Sabbath. Even though the immediate punishment of death is not to be applied by Christians now, that doesn't mean the commandment ceased. So, just because adulterers were killed, does that mean the commandment against adultery stopped? In the same way, just because killing Sabbath breakers stopped (atm), does that mean the commandment stopped as well?

I think he does know what the gospel is. It has nothing to do with the OC or the OT. Jer 31:31-34 says very plainly that it is different. It does not say that God moved the law from stone into our hearts. That is not a new deal. It is not according to the covenant made with the COI at Sinai. The new covenant did away with all the law (Torah) issued at Sinai.

The fact that some of those laws are also part of the new covenant is immaterial. One of the facts of the new covenant is that the 4th did not make an appearance as a command anywhere. The other laws did not carry over as you say. They are reissued but not as commandments. Gal 5:16-21 is a good example. Everything said in the gospels before the cross is under the law. If you look at what took place you will find that Jesus did not teach the law.The law and the prophets were until John. You will find Jesus telling the young man in Mat 19 who asked what can I do to keep certain commandments and did not include the 4th? Why? I have been told that was a given. I always respond with why aren't the other commandments a lso givens? IOW this is a false argument.

bugkiller

 

[Duckybill]

What is the Gospel? The Jesus Christ had to die for us.

He had to?

What is sin? The transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). Is the Sabbath part of the Law? Yes, it is. The same God that said "thou shalt not murder" (Exodus 20:13) and "thou shalt have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3) said: "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" (Exodus 20:8). Thus breaking the Sabbath is sin. And Jesus Christ had to die in the stead of the Sabbath breaker, which is a sinner.

Again you say He had to die. I say He chose to do so.

The Law says that the Sabbath breakers (sinners) are to be put to death, but Christ put Himself in the stead of the Sabbath breaker and died in his stead.

Make up your mind. Are we under the Law or not?

This is what the Gospel is all about. Christ put Himself in the stead of the sinner and died. Breaking the Sabbath is sin. So your argument doesn't really work.

The NT says I'm not to let you judge me about the Sabbath, so cease.

Colossians 2:16-17 (NKJV)
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

According to this logic, we can also say that since we don't stone adulterers anymore, the commandment of "thou shalt not commit adultery" (Exodus 20:14) does not apply anymore.

Adultery is forbidden in the NT, the Sabbath command is not in the NT.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NKJV)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

But this is not true. It is still in force. We are still forbidden to commit adultery, even though we are not being put to death so soon like in the Law of Moses. But why? Because Christ died in the place of the adulterer. So we can say that the commandment of killing the adulterers isn't done away with, but kept (or fulfilled) in Christ. Because we keep it in Christ. How did we keep it? We still killed the sinner, but Christ took that adulterers sin and died in His place. The commandment is still being kept.

And still, there is no Sabbath command in the NT.

So, just because adulterers were killed, does that mean the commandment against adultery stopped?

No, it's in the NT. Sabbath command is not.

 

[ricker]

I said this once before and say it again. Christ is the sabbath which we are to keep eternally for there will be no days in eternity. This commandment is not made mentiuon of by Christ because he was to become our sabbath rest. The remaining 9 commandments are all covered by the two new commandments which Christ Gave, to Love God with all you heart, mind and soul and to love your neighbor as yourself. No where in these commands can you find the requirement of sacrifice and offerings as was in the ordinances of the Levitical law. Christ fulfilled all of them and himself became the sabbath which we are to keep. Enter into his rest.

hismessenger

Well put and thank you! Ceremonial sabbath observance was never asked of Christians. We rest from our works as God did from His. There will always be those who try to put us under law that has been fulfilled in Christ.

 

[Duckybill]

Well put and thank you! Ceremonial sabbath observance was never asked of Christians. We rest from our works as God did from His. There will always be those who try to put us under law that has been fulfilled in Christ.

Amen!

 

[visionary]

Well put and thank you! Ceremonial sabbath observance was never asked of Christians. We rest from our works as God did from His. There will always be those who try to put us under law that has been fulfilled in Christ.

It is the shadow of things to come.. it is the body of Christ... So that body of Christ will be there...as God is..

 

[bugkiller]

Well put and thank you! Ceremonial sabbath observance was never asked of Christians. We rest from our works as God did from His. There will always be those who try to put us under law that has been fulfilled in Christ.

I'll that.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

True, but there's still no NT Sabbath commands. Why would God send His Son to shed His holy Blood for a New Covenant if we are bound to the Old? The Law of Moses was only for Israel.

Great point!

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

This either proves your ignorance or the fact that you don't even know what the Gospel is.

What is the Gospel? The Jesus Christ had to die for us. He died in our stead. Why? Because we sinned (Romans 3:23). If we sinned, we have to die (Romans 6:23). We cannot afford to die, but Jesus can because He has the power to resurrect too. We don't have that power.

What is sin? The transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). Is the Sabbath part of the Law? Yes, it is. The same God that said "thou shalt not murder" (Exodus 20:13) and "thou shalt have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3) said: "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" (Exodus 20:8). Thus breaking the Sabbath is sin. And Jesus Christ had to die in the stead of the Sabbath breaker, which is a sinner.

So it is OK that the Sabbath breaker was to be put to death, because it was a sin, and the penalty for sin is death. But, according to the good news Christ brought, He died for all sinners, and yes, that includes Sabbath breakers. The Law says that the Sabbath breakers (sinners) are to be put to death, but Christ put Himself in the stead of the Sabbath breaker and died in his stead. This is what the Gospel is all about. Christ put Himself in the stead of the sinner and died. Breaking the Sabbath is sin. So your argument doesn't really work.

According to this logic, we can also say that since we don't stone adulterers anymore, the commandment of "thou shalt not commit adultery" (Exodus 20:14) does not apply anymore. But this is not true. It is still in force. We are still forbidden to commit adultery, even though we are not being put to death so soon like in the Law of Moses. But why? Because Christ died in the place of the adulterer. So we can say that the commandment of killing the adulterers isn't done away with, but kept (or fulfilled) in Christ. Because we keep it in Christ. How did we keep it? We still killed the sinner, but Christ took that adulterers sin and died in His place. The commandment is still being kept.

In the same way, we kept the commandment of killing the Sabbath breakers by crucifying Christ. But like in the case of stoning adulterers, even though we don't kill them anymore, that doesn't mean the commandment stopped. We are still not to commit adultery and we are still not to break the Sabbath. Even though the immediate punishment of death is not to be applied by Christians now, that doesn't mean the commandment ceased. So, just because adulterers were killed, does that mean the commandment against adultery stopped? In the same way, just because killing Sabbath breakers stopped (atm), does that mean the commandment stopped as well?

The new covenant is wonderful. won't you please join us? Thiose in the NC are not subject to the old covenant or its laws and regulations.

bugkiller

 

[YosemiteSam]

I think he does know what the gospel is. It has nothing to do with the OC or the OT. Jer 31:31-34 says very plainly that it is different. It does not say that God moved the law from stone into our hearts. That is not a new deal. It is not according to the covenant made with the COI at Sinai. The new covenant did away with all the law (Torah) issued at Sinai.

The fact that some of those laws are also part of the new covenant is immaterial. One of the facts of the new covenant is that the 4th did not make an appearance as a command anywhere. The other laws did not carry over as you say. They are reissued but not as commandments. Gal 5:16-21 is a good example. Everything said in the gospels before the cross is under the law. If you look at what took place you will find that Jesus did not teach the law.The law and the prophets were until John. You will find Jesus telling the young man in Mat 19 who asked what can I do to keep certain commandments and did not include the 4th? Why? I have been told that was a given. I always respond with why aren't the other commandments a lso givens? IOW this is a false argument.

bugkiller

Speaking of a time in the future God says, Heb 10:16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them:" Renders your statement void!!!

"The new covenant did away with all the law issued and mount Sinai" and "the fact that some of those laws are also part of the new covenant is immaterial" is by you, sir, a direct contradiction!!!!!

"You will find the young man in Matt 19 who asked what can I do to keep certain commandments" is plainly false and twisted.

I will state it here so everyone can see for themselves.

v16-19 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" NOTICE HE ASKED ABOUT ETERNAL LIFE!....

"And he said unto him, Why do you call me good? there is non good but one, that is God: bit if you will enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS." Notice carefully Christ said, keep the commandments!...

"He said to him, which? Jesus said, Thou shall not murder, thou shall not commit adultery, thou shall not steal, thou shall not bear false witness, honor you father and your mother: and love thy neighbor as yourself."...Again Jesus pointing to the TEN COMMANDMENTS.

So, to the reader, you can plainly see, Christ teaching the Ten Commandments in Matt 19. Christ was in Judea at this particular time and the man who sought him to ask of "eternal life" most likely was a jew. He already knew the law. We know this because the man states in v20 "The young man said unto him, All these things I have kept from my youth, what do I lack?" So this jewish man was already keeping the ten commandments as Jesus himself was also keeping the ten commandments.

This also renders your other statement, "Jesus did not teach the law" as completely false as well.

Luke 4:16 "When he came to the village of Nazareth, where he had been brought up. And as was His custom, He entered the Synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read." Notice carefully, Christ is teaching on the Sabbath.

As Paul, also kept the Sabbath, what does he say to the Corinthians? 11:1 "Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ."

What say John? 1 Jn 2:6 "He that says he abides in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

2 Jn 2 "And this is love that we walk after his commandments."

Lastly the commandments were never "re-issued" as you put it. "That which you have heard from the beginning you should walk in it."

And lastly, Matt 17 - 19 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:...Whosoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach men so, he will be called least in the kingdom of heaven..and whoever shall do them and teach them, shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

"IOW this is a false argument" -- then yours was just simply "made-up"

 

[bugkiller]

Speaking of a time in the future God says, Heb 10:16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them:" Renders your statement void!!!

How so? This is a direct quote from Jer 31:34. Your getting away from Heb 8:8-13 and Jer 31:31-34 changes nothing. You are desperately trying to prove that we are not in the new covenant. How I ask can this be true. Jesus said This is My blood of the new testament (covenant) Mat 26:28. What new covenant was He talking about? I only know of one new covenant. Jesus said is not will be. The new covenant therefore exists.

Paul said hath made usable ministers of the new testament II Cor 3:6. Is Paul lying?

"The new covenant did away with all the law issued and mount Sinai" and "the fact that some of those laws are also part of the new covenant is immaterial" is by you, sir, a direct contradiction!!!!!

I don't think so. And you state that Jesus is teaching the law or keeping the commandments with the following.

"You will find the young man in Matt 19 who asked what can I do to keep certain commandments" is plainly false and twisted.

I will state it here so everyone can see for themselves.

v16-19 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" NOTICE HE ASKED ABOUT ETERNAL LIFE!....

"And he said unto him, Why do you call me good? there is non good but one, that is God: bit if you will enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS." Notice carefully Christ said, keep the commandments!...

"He said to him, which? Jesus said, Thou shall not murder, thou shall not commit adultery, thou shall not steal, thou shall not bear false witness, honor you father and your mother: and love thy neighbor as yourself."...Again Jesus pointing to the TEN COMMANDMENTS.

So, to the reader, you can plainly see, Christ teaching the Ten Commandments in Matt 19. Christ was in Judea at this particular time and the man who sought him to ask of "eternal life" most likely was a jew. He already knew the law. We know this because the man states in v20 "The young man said unto him, All these things I have kept from my youth, what do I lack?" So this jewish man was already keeping the ten commandments as Jesus himself was also keeping the ten commandments.

This also renders your other statement, "Jesus did not teach the law" as completely false as well.

You should notice that the question posed by the young man is what must I do that I may have eternal life. I say to you that if you can keep the law without violation you to can get or have eternal life. There is a slight problem - you have sinned and can not help yourself - it is your nature. Paul testified to this fact in Rom 7:24, 25. OK so you have better ability than Paul.

Romans 10:4 says that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness. Without this righteousness you can not possess eternal life. Your righteousness must exceed that of the scribes and pharisees. That means that you can never have sinned. There is only one way to get this righteousness and that is through Jesus Christ not the law. It is a gift and can be gotten no other way.

To say that Jesus is teaching something by answering a direct question is absurd. The young man left knowing that he did not have eternal life and tesitfied that he did indeed keep the law. Keeping the law will not grant you salvation or eternal life. You can not buy God. They will say did we not do thus and so and God is going to reply depart from Me. Works bring death and the gift brings life. This ain't Burger King. The law can not give life, it only condemns and brings death.

Luke 4:16 "When he came to the village of Nazareth, where he had been brought up. And as was His custom, He entered the Synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read." Notice carefully, Christ is teaching on the Sabbath.

As Paul, also kept the Sabbath, what does he say to the Corinthians? 11:1 "Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ."

Jesus Christ no where taught the sabbath or the keeping thereof. You should notice it is even missing from the words to the young man. Why are the other commandments mentioned and not the sabbath? Is it because the sabbath is a given? How then would the other commmandments also not be a given?

If Paul was teaching the keeping of the sabbath in Corinthians, what do you make of the the direct to bring an offering on Sunday to the church in chapter 16. Your citation is out of context as a prooftext, unless of course you are in the synagogue preaching Jesus to the Jews. My wager is that you do not worship with the Jews in the sysnagogue, especially as a Christian.

Being in church is not keeping the sabbath. Under the law a Jew was only required to worship God 3 times a year in an assembly. Show any scripture you wish about assembly being required as part of the sabbath regulations from the law. I don't think you can. First off the syangogue was not a part of Jewish life until one of their captivities. Second worship was done at the Temple in Jerusalem only by the time of Jesus Christ. Note the conversation with the woman at the well.

Furthermore Paul's being in the synagogue was strictly for the purpose of evangelism of the Jew. Priscilla and Aquila both Jews who traveled with Paul did not attend the synagogue with Paul in Ephesis. Why? It was certianly as convientient for them as it was for Paul.

What say John? 1 Jn 2:6 "He that says he abides in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

So were you baptised like Jesus was - naked before a crowd? When did you wash anybodies feet with only a towel which you used to dry their feet? I don't think you do as Jesus did at all. You can't humble yourself that much in our society without being called a pervert.

2 Jn 2 "And this is love that we walk after his commandments."

Lastly the commandments were never "re-issued" as you put it. "That which you have heard from the beginning you should walk in it."

And lastly, Matt 17 - 19 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:...Whosoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach men so, he will be called least in the kingdom of heaven..and whoever shall do them and teach them, shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

"IOW this is a false argument" -- then yours was just simply "made-up"

What commandments are you talking about? The 10? or the commandments of Jesus? They are different unless of course you don't subscribe to the doctrine of the trinity. You might argue that the word trinity isn't mentioned anywhere in scripture. And I will present you with scriptures stating God to be a plural Being in three distinct personalities even from the OT.

I do not think you comprehend the meaning of fulfil. Jesus indeed did not destroy the law He fulfilled it. I think you are also lacking in the understanding of some other terms commonly used in this argument to defend the law.

We have a new covenant. Since we have a new covenant (law) the old one is nothing more than a historical document having no jurisdiction. It has been replaced as testified by God Himself (Jesus) in Mat 26:28 as being current.

bugkiller

 

[JohnRabbit]

How so? This is a direct quote from Jer 31:34. Your getting away from Heb 8:8-13 and Jer 31:31-34 changes nothing. You are desperately trying to prove that we are not in the new covenant. How I ask can this be true. Jesus said This is My blood of the new testament (covenant) Mat 26:28. What new covenant was He talking about? I only know of one new covenant. Jesus said is not will be. The new covenant therefore exists.

Paul said hath made usable ministers of the new testament II Cor 3:6. Is Paul lying?I don't think so. And you state that Jesus is teaching the law or keeping the commandments with the following. You should notice that the question posed by the young man is what must I do that I may have eternal life. I say to you that if you can keep the law without violation you to can get or have eternal life. There is a slight problem - you have sinned and can not help yourself - it is your nature. Paul testified to this fact in Rom 7:24, 25. OK so you have better ability than Paul.

Romans 10:4 says that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness. Without this righteousness you can not possess eternal life. Your righteousness must exceed that of the scribes and pharisees. That means that you can never have sinned. There is only one way to get this righteousness and that is through Jesus Christ not the law. It is a gift and can be gotten no other way.

To say that Jesus is teaching something by answering a direct question is absurd. The young man left knowing that he did not have eternal life and tesitfied that he did indeed keep the law. Keeping the law will not grant you salvation or eternal life. You can not buy God. They will say did we not do thus and so and God is going to reply depart from Me. Works bring death and the gift brings life. This ain't Burger King. The law can not give life, it only condemns and brings death.Jesus Christ no where taught the sabbath or the keeping thereof. You should notice it is even missing from the words to the young man. Why are the other commandments mentioned and not the sabbath? Is it because the sabbath is a given? How then would the other commmandments also not be a given?

If Paul was teaching the keeping of the sabbath in Corinthians, what do you make of the the direct to bring an offering on Sunday to the church in chapter 16. Your citation is out of context as a prooftext, unless of course you are in the synagogue preaching Jesus to the Jews. My wager is that you do not worship with the Jews in the sysnagogue, especially as a Christian.

Being in church is not keeping the sabbath. Under the law a Jew was only required to worship God 3 times a year in an assembly. Show any scripture you wish about assembly being required as part of the sabbath regulations from the law. I don't think you can. First off the syangogue was not a part of Jewish life until one of their captivities. Second worship was done at the Temple in Jerusalem only by the time of Jesus Christ. Note the conversation with the woman at the well.

Furthermore Paul's being in the synagogue was strictly for the purpose of evangelism of the Jew. Priscilla and Aquila both Jews who traveled with Paul did not attend the synagogue with Paul in Ephesis. Why? It was certianly as convientient for them as it was for Paul.

What say John? 1 Jn 2:6 "He that says he abides in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."[/quote]So were you baptised like Jesus was - naked before a crowd? When did you wash anybodies feet with only a towel which you used to dry their feet? I don't think you do as Jesus did at all. You can't humble yourself that much in our society without being called a pervert.What commandments are you talking about? The 10? or the commandments of Jesus? They are different unless of course you don't subscribe to the doctrine of the trinity. You might argue that the word trinity isn't mentioned anywhere in scripture. And I will present you with scriptures stating God to be a plural Being in three distinct personalities even from the OT.

I do not think you comprehend the meaning of fulfil. Jesus indeed did not destroy the law He fulfilled it. I think you are also lacking in the understanding of some other terms commonly used in this argument to defend the law.

We have a new covenant. Since we have a new covenant (law) the old one is nothing more than a historical document having no jurisdiction. It has been replaced as testified by God Himself (Jesus) in Mat 26:28 as being current.

bugkiller

[/quote]

i highlighted part of your post, and i have a question for you on the subject of the trinity in another thread, with your name on it. would like for you to answer! you know what i'm talking about.

 

[JohnRabbit]

bugkiller,

you get an "ataboy" for getting over to that other thread and answering that question. i'm impressed.

real standup!