Is the Eucharist cannibalism?

[Xeno.of.athens]

I could, but others have kindly answered my query.
It doesn't show that Protestants, in general, mock the Eucharist.

Of course not, since that wasn't claimed anyway.

 

[ViaCrucis]

indeed - he does deserve credit for that at least.

For telling lies and tricking an impressionable eight year old child? Yeah, I give him full credit for that too. That said, I still pray that he found God's mercy at the end of his days.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Mr. Chick himself passed away a number of years ago, and I do pray that the Lord have mercy on his soul. But his legacy is one that is nothing short of the doctrine of demons.

Agreed.

 

[Strong in Him]

Of course not, since that wasn't claimed anyway.

No, but the phrase, "Protestant attempt to ridicule the Eucharist" was used - see post #6.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

The Statement of Faith for ChristianForums includes the Nicene Creed, in which we confess a belief in “One holy catholic (universal) and apostolic Church,” which different Christians from different denominations define differently, that being the subject of Ecclesiology, but the Church is clearly defined in the New Testament.

More described than defined; the church is variously called the "body of Christ", the "bride of Christ", as the church which Satan will not overcome, and as the foundation and pillar of truth.

But the church never is called a collection of denominations, as some seem to believe it to be.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

No, but the phrase, "Protestant attempt to ridicule the Eucharist" was used - see post #6.

Well, not exactly, offering a sentence fragment never helps to clarify a matter.

 

[BobRyan]

Jack Chick managed to help convince me that Halloween was evil

indeed - he does deserve credit for that at least.

For telling lies and tricking an impressionable eight year old child? Yeah, I give him full credit for that too. That said, I still pray that he found God's mercy at the end of his days.

-CryptoLutheran

If denouncing the halloween ghosts and gobblin traditions as "not of God" is in fact "tricking eight year olds" then I guess we define the terms differently... but that idea in defense of hallowee never occurred to me.

 

[Jipsah]

Some people claim that not viewing things the same way as they do - is to ridicule the entire doctrinal topic or to insult Mary or ...

"death cookies", anyone?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Some people claim that not viewing things the same way as they do - is to ridicule the entire doctrinal topic or to insult Mary or ...

Interesting that you'd make that claim; Jack Chick is rather well known in evangelical circles, his tracts are well distributed in those circles. Perhaps Seventh Day Adventists have seen them too? In any case Mr Chick and his compatriots spent a lot of time and effort ridiculing the Holy Eucharist. And they also mocked Blessed Mary in a full magazine length "tract". It is a good thing to disassociate one's self from Mr Chick's species of tract.

 

[ViaCrucis]

If denouncing the halloween ghosts and gobblin traditions as "not of God" is in fact "tricking eight year olds" then I guess we define the terms differently... but that idea in defense of hallowee never occurred to me.

Here are other things I don't consider to be evil:

Sasquatch, elves, R2-D2 from Star Wars, Paul Bunyan, and Superman. Can ya guess what they all have in common with ghosts and goblins?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[FireDragon76]

No, the Eucharist is not cannibalism because while Christ's body and blood are received and eaten in the sacrament, they are not consumed and there is no dismemberment of Christ taking place in Holy Communion.

 

[BobRyan]

"death cookies", anyone?

sounds like you have an rather odd business venture going

 

[BobRyan]

No, the Eucharist is not cannibalism because while Christ's body

True and Christ explains why it is the case in John 6 telling us that eating literal flesh is pointless when it comes to "Spirit and life"

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:
If denouncing the halloween ghosts and gobblin traditions as "not of God" is in fact "tricking eight year olds" then I guess we define the terms differently... but that idea in defense of hallowee never occurred to me.

Here are other things I don't consider to be evil:

Sasquatch, elves, R2-D2 from Star Wars, Paul Bunyan, and Superman. Can ya guess what they all have in common with ghosts and goblins?

-CryptoLutheran

The apparent conflation or else equivocation you are attempting there makes it appear that you place demons on the same level as "elves" or else you think that ghosts are not a storytelling-agenda that demons have for humans.

 

[ViaCrucis]

BobRyan said:
If denouncing the halloween ghosts and gobblin traditions as "not of God" is in fact "tricking eight year olds" then I guess we define the terms differently... but that idea in defense of hallowee never occurred to me.

The apparent conflation or else equivocation you are attempting there makes it appear that you place demons on the same level as "elves" or else you think that ghosts are not a storytelling-agenda that demons have for humans.

Ghosts don't exist. And that's the last I'm going to say on this subject.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[The Liturgist]

Jack Chick was a publisher of ridiculous cartoon tracts. You'll still find them being put on cars or in doctors offices or random places. "The Death Cookie" featured this:

View attachment 329262

Jack Chick was as much an opponent of traditional Protestantism as believed in by Luther, Calvin and Cranmer, and of Holy Orthodoxy (the existence of which, like most polemicists involved in debating Catholicism vs. Protestantism, of which he appears to have been totally ignorant), as of the Roman Catholic Church which he hated to such a degree that his polemical tracts come across as vile and repulsive, like the illustrated anti-semitic tract produced by Martin Luther and Lucas Cranach the Elder.*

 

[The Liturgist]

"death cookies", anyone?

Eastern Orthodox churches will be serving Presanctified Liturgies on every Wednesday and Friday until Holy Week, which this year is one year after Western Holy Week, and the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil on Saturdays and Sundays, until Lazarus Saturday, when I believe they switch to the Divine Liturgy of St. Chrysostom, also used on Palm Sunday, and on the Annunciation, which falls on a Saturday this year; on Holy Week there will be presanctified liturgies on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, and Vesperal Liturgies of St. Basil on Thursday and Saturday Morning*

Also of interest is any place you might find the traditional Latin Mass of the Presanctified on Good Friday or the Holy Saturday Vigil celebrated using the ancient pre-1955 rubrics, for in 1955, in a show of things to come with Vatican II, Pope Pius XII rewrote the Mass of the Presanctified so that the common text it previously shared with the Eastern Orthodox / Byzantine Rite Catholic Divine Liturgy of St. Gregory the Great was removed, and also the Vigil on Holy Saturday was moved into the Evening, and of the large number of Old Testament lessons it shared with the Byzantine Rite. Attending such a service, especially in a Diocesan setting, would be a great way to protest Traditiones Custodes.

Most Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches, and Eastern Rite Catholic Churches, have their main Paschal Eucharist start between 8 PM and 11:30 PM on Holy Saturday, ending on Sunday in the wee hours, to symbolize the mystical Eighth Day of Creation, for reasons similar to why many Protestant traditions have Sunrise services. However, the Syriac Orthodox usually have a Sunday morning service as well, and the main service of the Armenian Apostolic Church is on Sunday morning. Additionally, before de-Latinization after Vatican II, this is when the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, and I think the Ruthenian Greek Catholic Church, had their main services, and in Ukraine at least there is the Priestly Society of St. Josaphat, which is related to the SSPX, and serves a similiar function, and their chapels continue this practice (unfortunately the local hierarchy is much less tolerant of them than the Latin Rite hierarchy is towards the SSPX).

*this service is particularly beautiful, especially if you can find a Slavonic Russian/Ukrainian/Bulgarian parish with a good choir which will be singing the setting by the Russian composer Pavel Chesnokov, who along with the Ukrainian composer Dmitri Bortniansky, is one of the two greatest composers who focused on composing sacred music in Church Slavonic in the Russian-Belrussian-Ukrainian-Bulgarian tradition (Ruthenian (which also includes most Polish, Czech and Slovak) Prostopinije, and the Serbian, Montegrin and Macedonian church music tradition is also in Church Slavonic, and there are some talented singers of all Church Slavonic church music from these traditions, but prostopinije is a radically different style, and the “former Yugoslavian” style one associates with centers of early missionary activity among the Slavs led by Sts. Cyril and Methodius themselves is different enough from the Russian-Ukrainian-Bulgarian style that I think it should be treated as a separate grouping. This is partially because, I think, in Medieval Russia Znamenny Chant became prevalent over Byzantine Chant, while in Serbia Byzantine Chant remained prevalent, and in Bulgaria, but Bulgaria

 

[The Liturgist]

True and Christ explains why it is the case in John 6 telling us that eating literal flesh is pointless when it comes to "Spirit and life"

If your interpretation were accurate, it would mean our Lord was a very poor communicator given how most of his disciples abandoned him, which we know He wasn’t. As it happens the argument you are conveying rests on eisegesis, reading one part of the text to escape the consequences of the others.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Here is what Universalis presents as the explanation for the Easter Vigil on Saturday 8th April 2023, after sunset.

Saturday 8 April 2023​

Holy Saturday​

The Easter Vigil​

Liturgical Colour: White.​

​

By most ancient tradition, this is the night of keeping vigil for the Lord (Ex 12: 42), in which, following the Gospel admonition (Lk 12: 35-37), the faithful, carrying lighted lamps in their hands, should be like those looking for the Lord when he returns, so that at his coming he may find them awake and have them sit at his table.​

Of this night’s Vigil, which is the greatest and most noble of all solemnities, there is to be only one celebration in each church. It is arranged, moreover, in such a way that after the Lucernarium and Easter Proclamation (which constitutes the first part of this Vigil), holy Church meditates on the wonders the Lord God has done for his people from the beginning, trusting in his word and promise (the second part, that is, the Liturgy of the Word) until, as day approaches, with new members reborn in Baptism (the third part), the Church is called to the table the Lord has prepared for his people, the memorial of his Death and Resurrection until he comes again (the fourth part).​

The entire celebration of the Easter Vigil must take place during the night, so that it begins after nightfall and ends before daybreak on the Sunday.​

The Mass of the Vigil, even if it is celebrated before midnight, is a paschal Mass of the Sunday of the Resurrection.​

Anyone who participates in the Mass of the night may receive Communion again at Mass during the day. A Priest who celebrates or concelebrates the Mass of the night may again celebrate or concelebrate Mass during the day.​

As far as the Liturgy of the Hours is concerned, the Easter Vigil takes the place of the Office of Readings.​

Candles should be prepared for all who participate in the Vigil. The lights of the church are extinguished.​

​

---

THE SOLEMN BEGINNING OF THE VIGIL, OR LUCERNARIUM
The Blessing of the Fire and Preparation of the Candle

A blazing fire is prepared in a suitable place outside the church. When the people are gathered there, the Priest approaches with the ministers, one of whom carries the paschal candle. The processional cross and candles are not carried.
Where, however, a fire cannot be lit outside the church, the rite is carried out within the church and adapted appropriately.

Sign of the Cross

All make the Sign of the Cross as the Priest says:

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

The people reply:
Amen.

Greeting

Either: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and the love of God,
and the communion of the Holy Spirit
be with you all.

Or: Grace to you and peace
from God our Father
and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Or: The Lord be with you.

The people reply:
And with your spirit.

The Priest briefly instructs the people about the night vigil in these or similar words:

Dear brethren (brothers and sisters),
on this most sacred night,
in which our Lord Jesus Christ
passed over from death to life,
the Church calls upon her sons and daughters,
scattered throughout the world,
to come together to watch and pray.
If we keep the memorial
of the Lord’s paschal solemnity in this way,
listening to his word and celebrating his mysteries,
then we shall have the sure hope
of sharing his triumph over death
and living with him in God.

Then the Priest blesses the fire, saying with hands extended:

Let us pray.

O God, who through your Son
bestowed upon the faithful the fire of your glory,
sanctify ✠ this new fire, we pray,
and grant that,
by these paschal celebrations,
we may be so inflamed with heavenly desires,
that with minds made pure
we may attain festivities of unending splendour.
Through Christ our Lord.

Amen.

After the blessing of the new fire, one of the ministers brings the paschal candle to the Priest, who cuts a cross into the candle with a stylus. Then he makes the Greek letter Alpha above the cross, the letter Omega below, and the four numerals of the current year between the arms of the cross, saying meanwhile:

1. Christ yesterday and today; (he cuts a vertical line)
2. the Beginning and the End; (he cuts a horizontal line)
3. the Alpha; (he cuts the letter Alpha above the vertical line)
4. and the Omega. (he cuts the letter Omega below the vertical line)
5. All time belongs to him; (he cuts the first numeral of the current year in the upper left corner of the cross)
6. and all the ages. (he cuts the second numeral of the current year in the upper right corner of the cross)
7. To him be glory and power (he cuts the third numeral of the current year in the lower left corner of the cross)
8. through every age and for ever. Amen. (he cuts the fourth numeral of the current year in the lower right corner of the cross)

When the cutting of the cross and of the other signs has been completed, the Priest may insert five grains of incense into the candle in the form of a cross, meanwhile saying:

1. By his holy
2. and glorious wounds,
3. may Christ the Lord
4. guard us
5. and protect us. Amen.

The Priest lights the paschal candle from the new fire, saying:
May the light of Christ rising in glory
dispel the darkness of our hearts and minds.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

No, but the phrase, "Protestant attempt to ridicule the Eucharist" was used - see post #6.

Yes, because some do, as in the case of Jack Chick. He is, of course, not alone in his anti-Catholicism.