Is the Church a higher authority than the scripture?

[Albion]

The problem is, the word of God isn't limited to what's in the bible.

You mean to say that there is an opinion held by some Christians (and shared by you, I take it) that divine revelation has not been limited to the Bible.

 

[Rick Otto]

I don't think revelation has been limited to the Bible. I think it extends even to people that understand the Bible.

 

[JoabAnias]

I don't think revelation has been limited to the Bible. I think it extends even to people that understand the Bible.

That would mean there are prophets? Then again, someone had to write and canonize it too.

 

[Rick Otto]

People prophesy today, but "there are no prophets" in the classicaL sense of the term.
Scripture captures the essence of revelation.

 

[Theophorus]

People prophesy today, but "there are no prophets" in the classicaL sense of the term.
Scripture captures the essence of revelation.

This can be a catch 22 for some. Scripture can be misconstrued as the scriptures attest to. Yet some say it is by scripture that the heart is softened, the Holy Spirit is revealed etc.

Is the revelation (scripture) enough to transform a person to be able to understand revelation?

 

[JoabAnias]

People prophesy today, but "there are no prophets" in the classicaL sense of the term.
Scripture captures the essence of revelation.

Isn't it said by St. John in the first century that the world is not large enough to contain all the books it would take to record all that Jesus has done?

Ask; if there is more essance of revelation aside from the written word then where is it?

 

[Rick Otto]

This can be a catch 22 for some. Scripture can be misconstrued as the scriptures attest to. Yet some say it is by scripture that the heart is softened, the Holy Spirit is revealed etc.

Is the revelation (scripture) enough to transform a person to be able to understand revelation?

Scripture says, no. You need a need a Holy Spirit chip installled on your hard drive.

Isn't it said by St. John in the first century that the world is not large enough to contain all the books it would take to record all that Jesus has done?

Well yeah, but he had a point other than to allude to stuff we couldn't get to heaven without, or needed to understand what was written.

Ask; if there is more essance of revelation aside from the written word then where is it?

There isn't more essence. There may be more revelation, but it is more of the same. It can be found in both life & creation. Creation itself is a revelation of God.

 

[Hagnismos]

Isn't it said by St. John in the first century that the world is not large enough to contain all the books it would take to record all that Jesus has done?

Ask; if there is more essance of revelation aside from the written word then where is it?

No need to be coy, you are suggesting there is more revelation, where is it?

My point is that unles it agrees with the Bible you are shooting yourself in the foot. And this stuff of secret knowledge has plagued the church since early times when the gnostics were constantly strolling into the meetings and declaring God had revealed that they were God in some vision or dream or something. Much of the writings in the epistles that deal with false teachers are directed at the gnostic heresies.

So as long as we are talking about gifts of the spirit and revelation and dreamds and visions that do not deny or contradict what is written I think you are doing fine. The flesh and carnal mind are attracted to false dreams and visions because they almost always glorify the self, although some folks just find Lucifer to be erotic or otherwise attractive. Such people frighten me intensely since their wild devotion to those experiences can lead to all manner evil.

Let the Word of God be your strong tower and God's spirit can take you anywhere. But know that the proof is in the fruit.

And here is where I have alway been able to see the difference between true and false revelation and spiritual gifts, false gifts lead to the works of the flesh eventually

'Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these' Gal 5:19-21

So called spiritual insights that lead to the following along with a recognition of the Lordhsip of Christ are usually of God.

'But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness. self-control;' Gal 5:22

Howeve often we have to simply be patient and wait on the true nature of these things to reveal themselves (often we are waiting to assess the fruit of the life that spoke them as well.)

'The sins of some men are quite evident, going before them to judgment; for others their sins follow after. Likewise also deeds that are good are quite evident, and those which are otherwise cannot be concealed.' 1 Tim 5:24,25

We should let patience have it's perfect work while speaking the truth in love.

 

[Theophorus]

Scripture says, no. You need a need a Holy Spirit chip installled on your hard drive.

So how do you get one of those, does scripture tell you?

 

[Rick Otto]

It does.
God scripted it when He wrote the screenplay for Creation. Eph 1:4
Delivery & installation is by Divine Appointment.

 

[Theophorus]

It does.
God scripted it when He wrote the screenplay for Creation. Eph 1:4
Delivery & installation is by Divine Appointment.

How do I know you have the "chip"? How do I know that anyone has the appointment?

 

[Rick Otto]

There is no way to completely eliminate doubt in what is a matter of faith.

Are you risk averse?

 

[Theophorus]

There is no way to completely eliminate doubt in what is a matter of faith.

Are you risk averse?

If it's by divine appointment, then scripture has nothing to do with it, nor anything from my part for that matter, and you need that election to understand the essence of revelation... maybe scripture is not the essence of revelation.

It's a secret book understood only by those whom God wills. And we don't even know for sure who is in God's favor, if even ourselves.

I don't see any risk in that, and little faith in the classic sense.

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=Theophorus; If it's by divine appointment, then scripture has nothing to do with it, nor anything from my part for that matter, and you need that election to understand the essence of revelation... maybe scripture is not the essence of revelation.

Scripture has almost everything to do with understanding scripture. Your part is to keep the appointment God made you to, to be what He made you to be.

It's a secret book understood only by those whom God wills. And we don't even know for sure who is in God's favor, if even ourselves.

It is full of clues, but not names & addresses. "Knowing for sure" is different from believing for sure.

I don't see any risk in that, and little faith in the classic sense.

Not a risk for God, anyway. The risk for us is in believing for sure what you can't know for sure. Faith isn't "knowing" in the way science knows water, ice & steam are all H2O.