Israel is genetically in all of us.
There is only one Israel that God recognizes, and it is the Israel exclusively from a salvation standpoint.
The Israel who is in Christ.
The Israel of faith and obedience.
The Israel of God. (Galatians 6:16)
Does the Church encompass the Israel of God?Ok..... when did the Israel that is in Christ reject Christ as Hosea says, before He returned His place? That entity has to acknowledge that offense of rejection and call out to Him before He will return, again per Hosea.
So, if you are saying now that those is Christ are now Israel that Hosea was speaking of, then the Church is a Christ rejecting entity. Do you realize how silly that sounds? After all, you said that THAT Israel is the only one God recognizes.
Does the Church encompass the Israel of God?
Yeah.
So how can the Church be a a Christ rejecting entity?
Speaking of sounding silly...
The 1000 years does exist on earth and after the 1000 years Satan is released for a short period and a rebellion will take place and all unrighteousness will be put down, once and for all. Then heaven and earth will merge for eternity becoming what the Bible calls "The New Jerusalem".
What really seems sad, is that even though the earth is nearly a perfect condition under the rule of Messiah, the evil nature of man remains and when satan is released he is able to foment a rebellion against God.
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
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I wish that were true. It it was, probably wouldn't be so much debate on it. I too, was blown away when I saw that after 1000 years, Satan would come back and there would be some who would join him in rebellion after all those years under Jesus rule on earth. The problem with that pastors view (which I'm sure he has good intent) is that it was the Jews who believed in Resurrection on earth where they would rule and reign with Jesus.Kind of pretty obvious, isn't it?
What really seems sad, is that even though the earth is nearly a perfect condition under the rule of Messiah, the evil nature of man remains and when satan is released he is able to foment a rebellion against God.
Psalms 2 alludes to that.
Just one little flaw in that pastors presentation.... Matt 27:52-53.
The early Church writers had a fair amount to say regarding that, with the majority saying those resurrected saints were taken to heaven by Yeshua. Those early writers either knew the Apostles or knew disciples of the Apostles and would have been countered if they expressed a wrong idea.
Dr. Norman Geisler did a pretty good work compiling many examples of early Church writer exposes on the issue.
So, I suppose the pastor could hold that position of no other resurrections. Folks can hold any idea they want. But it goes against historical writings of the early Church.
And actually, the resurrection of the saints in Matthew 27:52-53 exhibits a following of Torah wonderfully. Leviticus 23, it starts out saying that the chapter outlines that the feasts, harvest requirements are "rehearsals".
While Yeshua is the "first fruits" of the resurrection, He is not the first fruits of the harvest. The resurrected saints are just that. This is why Yeshua told Mary not to handle Him on the morning of His resurrection. He stated He had not yet ascended to the Father. As our High Priest, He needed to remain ceremonially pure to deliver the first fruits of the harvest to the Father, as per the requirement of Leviticus 23.
And there are 3 parts to the harvest in Leviticus 23. The first fruits, the main harvest (done singularly at once), then the gleanings (and ongoing harvest of the corners of the fields a little at a time). Matthew 27:52 was the harvest first fruits, the pre-trib removal of the righteous (including that resurrection) is the main harvest, and those who trust in Messiah during the trib are the gleanings harvest.
Yeshua was fond of alluding to the harvest in many of His discourses. Maybe some should take that to heart. Including that pastor.
It's the Old Testament saints who will get new bodies on earth (why burial was so important to religious Jews).
The writer may very well have been talking to Hebrews, but they were "converted" Hebrews who had become Christians as the epistle to the Hebrews was written to Christians and to whom that verse would apply. This doesn't mean that the saints who had died prior to Jesus wouldn't be resurrected someday on the earth with new physical bodies.Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
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I too, was blown away when I saw that after 1000 years, Stan would come back and there would be some who would join him in rebellion after all those years under Jesus rule on earth.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
There is a heavenly city prepared in heaven. That doesn't preclude Christ ruling and reigning in this earth.BABerean2 said:Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city..
Thanks for the correction. I fixed it. I hate those kind of mistakes.Now just a minute. I take offense to that! My middle name is Stan and I have nothing to do with any rebellion!!! LOL
Darn spell checkers! I am just having some fun.
What about the Ninevites?The writer may very well have been talking to Hebrews, but they were "converted" Hebrews who had become Christians as the epistle to the Hebrews was written to Christians and to whom that verse would apply.
This doesn't mean that the saints who had died prior to Jesus wouldn't be resurrected someday on the earth with new physical bodies.
What about them?What about the Ninevites?
This form of #450 used only 2 times in the Gospels and 1 each in Acts and 1 Thess
Matthew 12:41
`Men Nineveh shall be resurrecting/ana-sthsontai <450> (5698) in the judging with the generation/geneaV <1074>, this-one, and shall be condemning it.
That they repent into the proclamation of Jonah, and behold! more of Jonah here.
Luke 11:32
The men of Nineveh shall be resurrecting/ana-sthsontai <450> (5698) in the judging with the generation, this-one and shall be condemning it
For they repented at the preaching of Jonas and! behold, more than Jonas here.
1 Thessalonians 4:16
That Himself, the Lord, in a shout-of-command, in voice of chief-messenger, and in trump of God, shall be descending from heaven,
and the dead-ones in Christ shall be resurrecting/ana-sthsontai <450> (5698) First,
What generation is Jesus speaking about?What about them?
Matthew 12:41 (KJV) 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.What generation is Jesus speaking about?
https://www.christianforums.com/threads/this-generation-in-bible.8075362/
"This Generation" in Bible
1453. egeiro eg-i'-ro probably akin to the base of 58 (through the idea of collecting one's faculties); to waken (transitively or intransitively), i.e. rouse (literally, from sleep, from sitting or lying
Matthew 12:42
`A Queen of the south shall be being roused/egerqhsetai <1453> (5701) in the judging with the generation/geneaV <1074>, this-one, and shall be condemning it.
That she came out of the ends of the land to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, more of Solomon here!
450. anistemi an-is'-tay-mee from 303 and 2476; to stand up (literal or figurative, transitive or intransitive):--arise, lift up, raise up (again), rise (again), stand up(-right).
Matthew 12:41
`Men Nineveh shall be resurrecting/ana-sthsontai <450> (5698) in the judging with the generation/geneaV <1074>, this-one, and shall be condemning it.
That they repent into the proclamation of Jonah, and behold! more of Jonah here.
You said it better than I could.Matthew 12:41 (KJV) 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
It sounds like that He was referring to judgment that would come upon the Jews of that day (that generation). The Ninevites repented as a result of Jonah's preaching and thus were saved along with the saved Jews of the Old Testament. It's definitely a confusing verse and that's the best I can make of it.
The curses are exclusively for those who disbelieve in God and reject Jesus.So that would make the Church, if it is now Israel, guilty of rejecting Messiah. I notice how it is so convenient for folks to appropriate promises and blessing to Israel and make them the property of the Church, but they don't want to take the curses along with that. It is not a smorgasbord thing. Either the Church has replaced Israel and gets all the baggage with that, or Israel and the Church as still unique separate entities that are set apart for God's purpose. That is not a dual covenant theology nonsense that salvation is in either group. Salvation is only via the Messiah. And when one accepts Yeshua, Jew or Gentile, they become part of the Ekklesia (Church).
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