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Is the 1000 year kingdom literal?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Protestantismvsthebible, Jul 30, 2018.

  1. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    Ok..... when did the Israel that is in Christ reject Christ as Hosea says, before He returned His place? That entity has to acknowledge that offense of rejection and call out to Him before He will return, again per Hosea.

    So, if you are saying now that those is Christ are now Israel that Hosea was speaking of, then the Church is a Christ rejecting entity. Do you realize how silly that sounds? After all, you said that THAT Israel is the only one God recognizes.
     
  2. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Does the Church encompass the Israel of God?

    Yeah.

    So how can the Church be a a Christ rejecting entity?

    Speaking of sounding silly...
     
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  3. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    Hosea 5:14 - 6:2 (NKJV) For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
    And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
    I, even I, will tear them and go away;
    I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
    15 I will return again to My place
    Till they acknowledge their offense.

    Then they will seek My face;
    In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”
    1 Come, and let us return to the Lord; For He has torn, but He will heal us;
    He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
    2 After two days He will revive us;
    On the third day He will raise us up,
    That we may live in His sight.

    If the Church is now Israel, and according to Hosea Israel must acknowledge their offense of rejecting Messiah at His first coming, and that they must acknowledge that offense and call out for His return before He will, then that would mean, based on the assumption that the Church has replaced Israel, that the Church must have rejected Messiah and now must acknowledge that offense before Yeshua can return.

    So that would make the Church, if it is now Israel, guilty of rejecting Messiah. I notice how it is so convenient for folks to appropriate promises and blessing to Israel and make them the property of the Church, but they don't want to take the curses along with that. It is not a smorgasbord thing. Either the Church has replaced Israel and gets all the baggage with that, or Israel and the Church as still unique separate entities that are set apart for God's purpose. That is not a dual covenant theology nonsense that salvation is in either group. Salvation is only via the Messiah. And when one accepts Yeshua, Jew or Gentile, they become part of the Ekklesia (Church).
     
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  4. 2tim_215

    2tim_215 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The 1000 years does exist on earth and after the 1000 years Satan is released for a short period and a rebellion will take place and all unrighteousness will be put down, once and for all. Then heaven and earth will merge for eternity becoming what the Bible calls "The New Jerusalem".
     
  5. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    Kind of pretty obvious, isn't it?

    What really seems sad, is that even though the earth is nearly a perfect condition under the rule of Messiah, the evil nature of man remains and when satan is released he is able to foment a rebellion against God.

    Psalms 2 alludes to that.
     
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  6. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
    2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.




    .
     
  7. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    Just one little flaw in that pastors presentation.... Matt 27:52-53.

    The early Church writers had a fair amount to say regarding that, with the majority saying those resurrected saints were taken to heaven by Yeshua. Those early writers either knew the Apostles or knew disciples of the Apostles and would have been countered if they expressed a wrong idea.

    Dr. Norman Geisler did a pretty good work compiling many examples of early Church writer exposes on the issue.

    So, I suppose the pastor could hold that position of no other resurrections. Folks can hold any idea they want. But it goes against historical writings of the early Church.

    And actually, the resurrection of the saints in Matthew 27:52-53 exhibits a following of Torah wonderfully. Leviticus 23, it starts out saying that the chapter outlines that the feasts, harvest requirements are "rehearsals".

    While Yeshua is the "first fruits" of the resurrection, He is not the first fruits of the harvest. The resurrected saints are just that. This is why Yeshua told Mary not to handle Him on the morning of His resurrection. He stated He had not yet ascended to the Father. As our High Priest, He needed to remain ceremonially pure to deliver the first fruits of the harvest to the Father, as per the requirement of Leviticus 23.

    And there are 3 parts to the harvest in Leviticus 23. The first fruits, the main harvest (done singularly at once), then the gleanings (and ongoing harvest of the corners of the fields a little at a time). Matthew 27:52 was the harvest first fruits, the pre-trib removal of the righteous (including that resurrection) is the main harvest, and those who trust in Messiah during the trib are the gleanings harvest.

    Yeshua was fond of alluding to the harvest in many of His discourses. Maybe some should take that to heart. Including that pastor.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
  8. 2tim_215

    2tim_215 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I wish that were true. It it was, probably wouldn't be so much debate on it. I too, was blown away when I saw that after 1000 years, Satan would come back and there would be some who would join him in rebellion after all those years under Jesus rule on earth. The problem with that pastors view (which I'm sure he has good intent) is that it was the Jews who believed in Resurrection on earth where they would rule and reign with Jesus.

    It's the Old Testament saints who will get new bodies on earth (why burial was so important to religious Jews). This was promised to them by God. David would be on MT.Zion with Jesus as His vice-geren. New Testament saints will reside in heaven but able to come down to earth I believe until all get merged into the New Jerusalem.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

    .
     
  10. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


    Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
    Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

    .
     
  11. 2tim_215

    2tim_215 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The writer may very well have been talking to Hebrews, but they were "converted" Hebrews who had become Christians as the epistle to the Hebrews was written to Christians and to whom that verse would apply. This doesn't mean that the saints who had died prior to Jesus wouldn't be resurrected someday on the earth with new physical bodies.
     
  12. Copperhead

    Copperhead Newbie Supporter

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    Now just a minute. I take offense to that! My middle name is Stan and I have nothing to do with any rebellion!!! LOL

    Darn spell checkers! I am just having some fun.
     
  13. 2tim_215

    2tim_215 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    One fold is the Jews and the other fold is the Christians and they wll all be one after that 1000 years when heaven and earth are joined.

    There is a heavenly city prepared in heaven. That doesn't preclude Christ ruling and reigning in this earth.
     
  14. 2tim_215

    2tim_215 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Thanks for the correction. I fixed it. I hate those kind of mistakes.
     
  15. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    What about the Ninevites?

    This form of #450 used only 2 times in the Gospels and 1 each in Acts and 1 Thess


    Matthew 12:41
    `Men Nineveh shall be resurrecting/ana-sthsontai <450> (5698) in the judging with the generation/geneaV <1074>, this-one, and shall be condemning it.
    That they repent into the proclamation of Jonah, and behold! more of Jonah here.


    Luke 11:32

    The men of Nineveh shall be resurrecting/ana-sthsontai <450> (5698) in the judging with the generation, this-one and shall be condemning it
    For they repented at the preaching of Jonas and behold! more of Jonas here.

    1 Thessalonians 4:16

    That Himself, the Lord, in a shout-of-command, in voice of chief-messenger, and in trump of God, shall be descending from heaven,
    and the dead-ones in Christ shall be resurrecting/ana-sthsontai <450> (5698) First,
     
  16. 2tim_215

    2tim_215 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What about them?
     
  17. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    What generation is Jesus speaking about?

    https://www.christianforums.com/threads/this-generation-in-bible.8075362/
    "This Generation" in Bible

    1453. egeiro eg-i'-ro probably akin to the base of 58 (through the idea of collecting one's faculties); to waken (transitively or intransitively), i.e. rouse (literally, from sleep, from sitting or lying


    Matthew 12:42
    `A Queen of the south shall be being roused/egerqhsetai <1453> (5701) in the judging with the generation/geneaV <1074>, this-one, and shall be condemning it.
    That she came out of the ends of the land to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, more of Solomon here!

    450. anistemi an-is'-tay-mee from 303 and 2476; to stand up (literal or figurative, transitive or intransitive):--arise, lift up, raise up (again), rise (again), stand up(-right).


    Matthew 12:41
    `Men Nineveh shall be resurrecting/ana-sthsontai <450> (5698) in the judging with the generation/geneaV <1074>, this-one, and shall be condemning it.

    That they repent into the proclamation of Jonah, and behold! more of Jonah here.
     
  18. 2tim_215

    2tim_215 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Matthew 12:41 (KJV) 41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
    It sounds like that He was referring to judgment that would come upon the Jews of that day (that generation). The Ninevites repented as a result of Jonah's preaching and thus were saved along with the saved Jews of the Old Testament. It's definitely a confusing verse and that's the best I can make of it.
     
  19. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git! Supporter

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    You said it better than I could.

    Have you checked out my "generation" thread?

    https://www.christianforums.com/threads/this-generation-in-bible.8075362/
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
  20. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    The curses are exclusively for those who disbelieve in God and reject Jesus.

    The Church was mostly Jewish in its makeup for many years.
    It was (and a denomination still is) the Nazarene sect of Judaism, the faithful remnant who followed Israel's Messiah. The "church" is not something separate from Israel, but rather is the remnant of the faithful within Israel and includes every faithful Christian individual alive.

    Isaiah pointed out that in times of Israel's great apostasies, the faithful of the nation were reduced to a tiny remnant of elect ones. Isaiah 1:8-9

    So it was in the first century, where Paul identifies himself as an example of the faithful remnant. Romans 11:1-5
    The apostles continually say that Christians; born again believers, are the true elect ones: 2 Timothy 2:10; Col. 3:12; Galatians 6:15-16; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Peter 2:9-10

    However, some people have a bizarre idea of who is Israel: counting the disobedient sons of Abraham as Israel while discounting entirely the sons of Abraham by faith.
    Paul said that when the Jewish nation rejected Christ, the true Israel was carried on not through the lineages of the wicked sons but rather through the obedient few (called the "remnant"), such as was true in Isaiah's day, Romans 9:27-29 and Elijah's day. Romans 11:3-5

    Peter says the same thing at Acts 3:22-24, where it is clear that the wicked Jews who refuse Christ were to be "cut off from among the People of Israel" while the faithful Jews (John the Baptist, Joseph and Mary, the Twelve, the Seventy, the three thousand on Pentecost day, and many other Jews) were the True Faithful Israel.

    The Israelite church was with Moses in the wilderness, Acts 7:37-38 And within a few years after Pentecost, the faithful Israelites learned how to start accepting both Jewish and also gentile followers from all over the empire to convert into their Nation. 1 Peter 2:9-10; Matthew 21:40-45 And so the remnant of true righteous Christian Israel have maintained the faith through this age, while a large portion of the established Church have lost the plot, to their eternal discredit.
    And so it was also in Moses' day, when the many thousands of wicked sons of Abraham were slain in the wilderness while the tested and tried sons of Abraham survived and got to enter the Promised Land. We must NEVER count the continuation of Israel through the wicked sons but rather always through the faithful remnant!

    The real Church is the faithful Christians from every tribe, race, nation and language, Revelation 5:9-10; they are the Israelites of God. Israelites = the Overcomers with God.
     
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