• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Is Speaking In Tongues Biblical Today?

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by Major1, Aug 23, 2017.

  1. swordsman1

    swordsman1 Well-Known Member

    +868
    Christian
    Homosexuals and the like don't feel offended because we insult them, but because we confront them with the scriptures. But you however just throw insults...and that is simply bad manners and rude. Your repeated use of the ad-hominem fallacy is because you are unable to refute cessationism and so you attack us with mocking insults and unfounded derogatory accusations instead, no doubt hoping that enough mud will stick and might deter others.
     
  2. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +4,163
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    The mere fact that the latter rain has fallen with all the Gifts and signs and wonders is refute enough.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  3. swordsman1

    swordsman1 Well-Known Member

    +868
    Christian
    And it seems you are guilty of the same fallacy.
     
  4. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +4,163
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    Some things are just fact. We are merely speaking the truth.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  5. swordsman1

    swordsman1 Well-Known Member

    +868
    Christian
    Ditto.
     
  6. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

    +4,163
    United States
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    ..
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  7. swordsman1

    swordsman1 Well-Known Member

    +868
    Christian
    The last time I overstepped the mark, I apologized.
     
  8. swordsman1

    swordsman1 Well-Known Member

    +868
    Christian
    Where does it say that the gifts would be removed from the other six churches?
     
  9. swordsman1

    swordsman1 Well-Known Member

    +868
    Christian
    So now we have 3 types of apostle, 3 types of prophet, 3 types of teacher - the 1 Cor 12 types, the Rom 12 types, and the Eph 4 types? You seem to want to arbitrarily and without warrant divide each gift into all sorts of different types in order to suit your agenda when the bible makes no such distinction. I've already disproved your theory that there is a distinction between tongues FROM God and TO God. I am still waiting for your response on that one.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
  10. swordsman1

    swordsman1 Well-Known Member

    +868
    Christian
    1 Cor 14:2 is not proof that tongues is a non-human language. The context of Ch14 is unrecognized tongues spoken in the CONGREGATION. So where it says "no man understands" it doesn't mean no one on the face of the earth, but rather no one in the congregation. If someone spoke Swahili in my church no one would understand but that doesn't mean someone from Africa wouldn't understand it.
     
  11. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

    +2,614
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    You said...............
    "Never once in all those years did I see one prayer answered."

    I am sorry to hear that sister. I have had my prayers answered YES and I have had some answered NO.
    We prayed for our little grandson to survive but God said NO and took him home to be with him.
    We prayed for my mother in law to survive her fight with cancer, but again God said NO and took her home.

    Some of my prayers have yet to be answered so I wait and continue to speak with the Lord.
     
  12. rrobsr

    rrobsr Active Member

    172
    +83
    Christian
    Married
    I'm not sure why the neuter gender precludes it from being an event (the return).

    Also, here is the verse in Aramaic (for what it's worth):
    upload_2017-8-29_14-3-54.png
    1Cor 13:12,

    For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.​

    The questions:

    1) Does now refer the time before the scriptures were finished, or does it refer to the time before the return (the present dispensation of grace)? The latter would make more sense. It says now we see through a glass darkly. That sure fits. After all, does anybody have a perfect and complete grasp of the scriptures? No. That's because, now we see through a darkened glass. That's why so many divisions in the church.

    2) Does then refer to the coming of the scriptures or the return? Well, if you think you know yourself as God knows you right now, then maybe it could refer to the coming of the scriptures. But I'm quite certain no born again believer really understands the greatness of who they the really are in Christ Jesus. It's just too big. But we will! When? When we see him face to face, i. e. the return.

    Obviously the scriptures themselves haven't united all Christians in the same mind and same heart or we wouldn't even be having this discussion. How many thousands of different denominations are there? A bunch. Doesn't sound like perfection to me. I don't think that was God's plan. Too many verses tell us to be of the same mind and such.

    One final point: I think it's a good thing we won't be too embarrassed when we get there and find out all the things we missed in the scriptures. We'll all be to darned happy to have any negativity. That we can count on for sure! I can't wait.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
  13. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

    +2,614
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    That is not the point. You asked for examples of God not answering prayers and saying NO. Then you try to explain away those very examples found in the Scriptures.

    God always listens to the prayers of the saints but He does not always answer Yes to those prayers as I demonstrated for you in those verses.

    May I ask you with all due respect, Are you just ignoring those Scriptures or are you rejecting them because they are not what you wanted to hear?
     
  14. rrobsr

    rrobsr Active Member

    172
    +83
    Christian
    Married
    You are right. There is nowhere in 1 Cor 14 that mentions a non-human language. However, there is such a mention in the preceding chapter.

    1Cor 13:1,

    Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels (non-human), and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.​
     
  15. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

    +2,614
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    Because the 2nd Coming of Christ is an event and NOT a "thing". The grammar of the Greek in which it is written does not allow for an "event" or a person. We can debate this back and forth but the grammar is not open for interpretation my dear brother.

    1) Obviously the word "NOW" in the original Greek is in the present tense for Paul. IMO Paul is saying that as we are alive today speaks to everyone who is alive......"NOW", the living. Both in Paul's day as well as ours.

    2) "Then" would of course mean when we die and go to heaven THEN we will have the fuller revelations in heaven.
     
  16. swordsman1

    swordsman1 Well-Known Member

    +868
    Christian
    Now refers to the time of Paul's writing, around 55AD. Seeing in a mirror dimly is referring to the gift of prophecy which was present in the church at the time. Such prophecy only provided revelations of God to man 'in part'.

    The passage doesn't actually make any mention of Christ or his return. There is no 'him' before 'face to face'. The term is referring to the analogy of a mirror (which were very poor quality in those days). Now (at the time of writing), prophecy is like looking at your reflection dimly in a poor mirror, but then (when completeness comes) it will be like looking at someone face to face. Prophecy will be replaced with a something far superior - the completed canon.
     
  17. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

    +2,614
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Republican
    The apostle refers to a notion that was common among the Jews, that there was a language by which angels might be invoked, adjured, collected, and dispersed; and by the means of which many secrets might be found out, and curious arts and sciences known.

    No affirmation is made here regarding the language of angels. Dr. Hodge in his commentaries paraphrased this as "all languages, human or divine."

    That the speech of angels should have been brought in here could have derived from Paul's own experience in which he was caught up into heaven and heard words "unspeakable, unlawful to utter" as seen in 2 Corinthians 12:4.

    There is also an assumption here that "angels are superior in all respects to men." Thus, Paul made his argument more overwhelming with the contrast between the tongues of angels and the distressing, misuse of tongues in the Corinth church.
     
  18. rrobsr

    rrobsr Active Member

    172
    +83
    Christian
    Married
    So now (after Paul and NT written) you are not looking through a darkened glass? You have a perfect understanding of everything in the scriptures? If that's true, let me know when I can come to sit at your feet to hear the scriptures in a perfect way. Id' be thrilled beyond belief. But somehow, I don't think I'll be going anywhere. No offence. After all, you and I are in the same boat. I sure don't know them all perfectly. Like I said, it's way to big for my puny mind.
     
  19. swordsman1

    swordsman1 Well-Known Member

    +868
    Christian
    1 Cor 13:1-3 "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing."

    Paul uses five conditional IF statements in 1 Cor 13:1-3 which were both hypothetical (they were imagined scenarios, not things he actually did) AND hyperbole (the imagined scenarios were wildly exaggerated examples of each gift) - to make the point that even having spiritual gifts to the highest conceivable degree would be worthless without love:
    - tongues, even to the degree of speaking the language of angels...
    - the gift of prophecy even to the degree of knowing ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge (ie becoming omniscient)...
    - the gift of faith even to the degree of removing mountains...
    - the gift of giving even to the degree of giving up ALL your possessions...
    - and even giving up your own life...

    ....would all be to no avail without love.

    None of those exaggerated hypothetical examples represent the normal operation of those gifts. Paul is saying that even if someone had the gift of tongues to such an exalted degree that they spoke in the language of angels, but didn't have love, it would be worthless to them.
     
  20. rrobsr

    rrobsr Active Member

    172
    +83
    Christian
    Married
    I do at different times in my walk operate one or more of the nine manifestations. I find it helpful to get information from God about something which is not possible to get via my 5 senses (word of knowledge). I also get information from God as to what to do with that information (word of wisdom). I've been known to detect devil spirits in certain people (discerning of spirits). I've healed people (healing). I've seen things occur that helped me or others that wouldn't normally happen (miracles). I speak in tongues in my private prayer life throughout each day (tongues) to edify myself. I've interpreted tongues (interpretation of tongues) as well as prophesied (prophecy) in the church to edify others.

    Let me ask you this: am I somehow being tricked by the adversary?
     
Loading...