Is Scripture MISSING Dogmas?

[Souldier]

Bedsides that. You guys forsake each others assembly, you wouldn't dare see an SDA in a RCC church, but then come here and act like brothers. That seems strange as well. I suppose we all have our limitations and prisons we live in.

 

[GoingByzantine]

Bedsides that. You guys forsake each others assembly, you wouldn't dare see an SDA in a RCC church, but then come here and act like brothers. That seems strange as well. I suppose we all have our limitations and prisons we live in.

Can one blame a simple believer for the edicts of their church leaders.

 

[hedrick]

I must confess that I don’t know what this discussion is about. The only dogmas I know of that developed over time were things like the Trinity and Incarnation. As CJ seems to be a traditional Lutheran, I would think he would accept them. My own liberal tradition tends to take them with a grain of salt, for exactly the reasons defined in the OP, but I wouldn’t think CJ would agree with that.

There’s been allusions to Marian ideas, but I wouldn’t classify them as dogma. They’re not about how we talk about God or the Gospel or Jesus’ role. They’re pious legends. I think they’re false, but that’s a matter on which we can disagree.

Is CJ actually arguing for the classic liberal / mainline position on doctrine?

 

[BobRyan]

Bedsides that. You guys forsake each others assembly, you wouldn't dare see an SDA in a RCC church, but then come here and act like brothers. That seems strange as well. I suppose we all have our limitations and prisons we live in.

I have been to several RCC worship services as an SDA - even charismatic RCC services.

And we have many ex-Roman Catholics in my church as well.

So I don't know that there is "no sharing".

The SDA church practices open communion.

The RCC does not.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I cannot be a member of a Church. I choose to see blessing in it however. I honestly think God can take strange situations and use them to shine his light. The bulk of my comments in GT today are not about avoiding Church but instead about finding liberty in the spirit. I am blessed despite my limitations and my circumstances. I guess i'll need to be joyful regardless of how im perceived. As a matter of fact my heart is joyful now, i think the Lord has brought me far, and when i see it i am joyful.

Many people "cannot" physically attend a given church but there are many church services online.

I am talking about choosing not to be a member of a church in my prior comments.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[hedrick]

Can one blame a simple believer for the edicts of their church leaders.

That's an interesting ethical question, which comes up for me in studying historical theologians. I generally think we have to forgive 16th Cent writers for viewpoints which look rather unloving today. Almost all Christians at that time felt no problem with killing people for heresy, even though I think it’s a flagrant violation of what Jesus stood for.

I think it’s pretty clear that Christians get much of their ideas about God and Jesus from their traditions. Few ever go beyond that. It’s hard to fault them for following Jesus the best they know.

But I can’t help feeling that at a certain point the dissonance between what some churches teach and what Jesus actually stood for is so great that it’s hard to see how no one would notice.

 

[GoingByzantine]

The Catholic Church practices open communion too. Just follow the same rules that I have too and you can join in the sacrament with me.

 

[hedrick]

The Catholic Churc practices open communion too. Just follow the same rules that I have too and you can join in the sacrament with me.

That's not what open communion means. We've got enough misunderstandings without non-standard definitions of term.

 

[topcare]

Bedsides that. You guys forsake each others assembly, you wouldn't dare see an SDA in a RCC church, but then come here and act like brothers. That seems strange as well. I suppose we all have our limitations and prisons we live in.

Frankly because the rulers make us do that, not necessarily by choice

 

[Souldier]

Can one blame a simple believer for the edicts of their church leaders.

Isnt that a bit convenient that you can avoid taking responsibility for yourself while blaming me, knowing i have no church that i can blame for my own actions? No one is forcing you to stay at that Church, thats you decision and therefore your choice to avoid the fellowship with other denominations. Anyway. lets stay on topic and avoid this conversation.

 

[Souldier]

Many people "cannot" physically attend a given church but there are many church services online.

I am talking about choosing not to be a member of a church in my prior comments.

in Christ,

Bob

Forgive me, perhaps i misunderstood.

 

[BobRyan]

That's not what open communion means. We've got enough misunderstandings without non-standard definitions of term.

Indeed. Redefining terms to then "Claim it" is not helpful communication - it leads to misunderstandings.

Good point.

 

[BobRyan]

Frankly because the rulers make us do that, not necessarily by choice

Are you saying that you belong to a church that does not practice open communion??

 

[topcare]

Are you saying that you belong to a church that does not practice open communion??

No, go look at what I was referring to. My comment has nothing to do with the Eucharist

 

[Souldier]

I have been to several RCC worship services as an SDA - even charismatic RCC services.

And we have many ex-Roman Catholics in my church as well.

So I don't know that there is "no sharing".

The SDA church practices open communion.

The RCC does not.

in Christ,

Bob

Ex RCC doesn't count. That's a conversion, not at all what i was referring to. Anyway, i dont want to get off topic. I just got rep for staying on topic.

 

[GoingByzantine]

There never was such a thing as "closed communion" before the reformation so much as I can tell. So it always has been open for people who follow the same beliefs that I and millions of others have had too.

Protestants chose to go a different direction, it seems disingenuous to let them come right back in and take communion, especially those that do not affirm that Christ is literally present in the sacrament.

I do not say that rudely, but just a matter of what I see as fact. So please do not take my words as an attack.

 

[Standing Up]

from OP- 3. "I find no credible reason to believe that the NT is MISSING super important, critical DOGMAS taught by Jesus plus all 12-14 of the Apostles. No credible reason to believe the whole "God messed up.... God forgot" insistence. "

Please show us where scripture says "I am not missing dogmas taught by Jesus plus all 12-14 of the Apostles?" So far, you've shown zip about this. Why?

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Protestants chose to go a different direction, it seems disingenuous to let them come right back in and take communion, especially those that do not affirm that Christ is literally present in the sacrament.

I do not say that rudely, but just a matter of what I see as fact. So please do not take my words as an attack.

I don't think that it's rude or an attack, I like having stimulating conversations even if they're a bit heated at times. It's a good way to sharpen our hearts and mind etc.

While I do understand that the bread represents the body of Christ which is His church, I just don't get how men actually think that they're passing God through their digestive system and then out of the body?

If we are the body of Christ, then obviously that would mean that you're all eating one another.

 

[Souldier]

I don't think that it's rude or an attack, I like having stimulating conversations even if they're a bit heated at times. It's a good way to sharpen our hearts and mind etc.

While I do understand that the bread represents the body of Christ which is His church, I just don't get how men actually think that they're passing God through their digestive system and then out of the body?

If we are the body of Christ, then obviously that would mean that you're all eating one another.

Is that one of those super important dogmas not found in scripture? I think its based on something found in scripture but the dogma itself is not found in scripture.

THe Jews thought Jesus wanted us to eat flesh and drink real blood too. Interesting...

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Is that one of those super important dogmas not found in scripture? I think its based on something found in scripture but the dogma itself is not found in scripture.

THe Jews thought Jesus wanted us to eat flesh and drink real blood too. Interesting...

It's relative imo.

John 6 speaks of the one having the words of eternal life, not the one having flesh unto eternal life. He even tells us that the flesh profits nothing.

Then they're going to tell us that it is spiritual, when their entire argument hangs on the literal eating of flesh and drinking blood.