Is Scripture MISSING Dogmas?

[ThatTrueLight]

Yes, we've seen much of that down through the centuries-right into this very forum, in fact!

I've experienced it myself, a person telling me that Romans 11 was nauseating. I almost chocked on that one.

 

[Albion]

The a church produced catechisms-the Didache is one-and mini catechisms, aka "creeds", from very early on. It seems they somehow thought, maybe in a deluded state, that such endeavors could help further explain what was, um, not so clearly explained by Scripture.

It seems to me that you've now moved from the Bible being useless as a teaching tool to arguing that "it's not so clear." Maybe in awhile, we can get you to actually appreciate the Bible without having to qualify it in some way.

(and that's to say nothing of the incorrect descriptions of both the Didache and the creeds that you gave above. We'll just let that pass.)

 

[ThatTrueLight]

You just need to take a close look at the seeds being sown, that's all.

Just about time to get some started in the garden too!

 

[MoreCoffee]

Who is speaking for the incorruptible seed of the word of God here. ...

The passage that uses words along the lines of the ones in the above quote says:

For through the living and eternal word of God you have been born again as the children of a parent who is immortal, not mortal. (1 Peter 1:23)​

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Of course, and what is He sowing?

You're denying it already aren't you.

 

[fhansen]

It seems to me that you've now moved from the Bible being useless as a teaching tool to arguing that "it's not so clear." Maybe in awhile, we can get you to actually appreciate the Bible without having to qualify it in some way.

(and that's to say nothing of the incorrect descriptions of both the Didache and the creeds that you gave above. We'll just let that pass.)

"useless as a teaching tool"? Perhaps a tad bit of presumption there? Or did you confuse my posts with someone else's? Anyway, Catholics that I know of, myself included, teach from Scripture. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, as well, refers to Scripture passages constantly in support of its teachings.

There's a difference between teaching from Scripture and explaining Scripture. Phillip, obviously, taught from Scripture. But not by merely reading from it; it was still necessary for him to explain its meaning.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Paul tells the church of God in Ephesus that when they heard the gospel of their salvation and believed it, that God sealed them with the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption.

They're now growing up into Christ.

The tares do look ok but we already know that an enemy has sown them, and it's not the incorruptible seed he's sowing.

Of course he'll tell you it's the best in class, the absolute best seed there is even.. Better than any other man's seed.

And all it does is produce tares.

 

[MoreCoffee]

For through the living and eternal word of God you have been born again as the children of a parent who is immortal, not mortal. (1 Peter 1:23)

Seems to me that the verse in question tells about the role of the word of God (not scripture but what God speaks) in creating new life in the faithful.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

And of course he will insist that the incorruptible seed isn't all that it's cracked up to be.. No sir, sales would go down significantly so he's got to convince men that there's no better seed than his very own.

Yep, it's better than anyone else's seed. Even the incorruptible seed.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

It's all very subtil people. Happening right before us, literally.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I know this may be a little wordy for some to bother reading but I will post it anyway. It is from an Anglican source, The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges

The Greek order of the words leaves it doubtful whether the two predicates belong to “the word,” or to “God,” but the sequence of thought is decisive in favour of connecting them with the former. They are used to shew that the word of God, which is the seed of the new birth, is, as has been said, incorruptible. They prepare the way for the emphatic reiteration in 1Pe 1:25, that the “word of the Lord” endureth for ever, the same word being used in the Greek as for the “abideth” of this verse.

It is obvious that the word of God is more here than any written book, more than any oral teaching of the Gospel, however mighty that teaching might be in its effects. If we cannot say that St Peter uses the term LOGOS with precisely the same significance as St John (Joh 1:1; Joh 1:14), it is yet clear that he thinks of it as a divine, eternal, creative power, working in and on the soul of man. It was “the word of the Lord” which had thus come to the prophets of old, of which the Psalmist had spoken as “a lamp unto his feet,” and “a light unto his path” (Psa 119:105). St Peter’s use of the term stands on the same level as that of the writer of the Epistle to the Hebrews, who speaks of “the word of God” as “quick and powerful … a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart” (Heb 4:12-13). It is, i.e., nothing less than God manifested as speaking to the soul of man, a manifestation of which either the preached or the written word may be the instrument, but which may work independently of both, and is not to be identified with either.​

 

[MoreCoffee]

The volumes from which my past post quoted are described thus in the Logos software set:

The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges was the first ever complete commentary set to be published by Cambridge University Press. The more than thirty theologians and biblical scholars that contributed to this collection have illuminated the Scriptures for thousands of readers for nearly one hundred years, and continue to provide a fantastic, holistic look at the entirety of the Bible, including 1 Maccabees, Ecclesiasticus, and The Wisdom of Solomon. Contributing authors include noted scholars Herbert Edward Ryle, S. R. Driver, J. Skinner, A. Plummer, F. W. Farrar, H. C. G. Moule, and W. H. Simcox. The original audience for this series was the English Bible student, and the commentaries continue to be an excellent resource for those in the scholastic arena. In addition, the accessible writing style makes the fifty-seven volumes included a great scriptural study guide for pastors and laity.​

The set is 58 volumes in printed form. It is scholarly and useful, I think.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

I know this may be a little wordy for some to bother reading but I will post it anyway. It is from an Anglican source, The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges

The Greek order of the words leaves it doubtful whether the two predicates belong to “the word,” or to “God,” but the sequence of thought is decisive in favour of connecting them with the former. They are used to shew that the word of God, which is the seed of the new birth, is, as has been said, incorruptible. They prepare the way for the emphatic reiteration in 1Pe 1:25, that the “word of the Lord” endureth for ever, the same word being used in the Greek as for the “abideth” of this verse.

It is obvious that the word of God is more here than any written book, more than any oral teaching of the Gospel, however mighty that teaching might be in its effects. If we cannot say that St Peter uses the term LOGOS with precisely the same significance as St John (Joh 1:1; Joh 1:14), it is yet clear that he thinks of it as a divine, eternal, creative power, working in and on the soul of man. It was “the word of the Lord” which had thus come to the prophets of old, of which the Psalmist had spoken as “a lamp unto his feet,” and “a light unto his path” (Psa 119:105). St Peter’s use of the term stands on the same level as that of the writer of the Epistle to the Hebrews, who speaks of “the word of God” as “quick and powerful … a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart” (Heb 4:12-13). It is, i.e., nothing less than God manifested as speaking to the soul of man, a manifestation of which either the preached or the written word may be the instrument, but which may work independently of both, and is not to be identified with either.​

Best post of yours I've read imo

 

[MoreCoffee]

Best post of yours I've read imo

I've often used the same source in my posts. Perhaps you would enjoy reading some of the other posts that use that source?

 

[ThatTrueLight]

It's the mind of Christ also, living and powerful.. said to be sharper than any two edged sword which is spiritually built in.. comes standard. Just needs a little gettin used to that's all.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It's the mind of Christ also, living and powerful.. said to be sharper than any two edged sword which is built in.. comes standard. Just needs a little gettin used to that's all.

The above quote appears to reference a passage from Hebrews:

The word of God is alive and active, sharper than any double-edged sword. It cuts all the way through, to where soul and spirit meet, to where joints and marrow come together. It judges the desires and thoughts of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)​

The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges says:

For the word of God is quick] “Quick” is an old English expression for “living;” hence St Stephen speaks of Scripture as “the living oracles” (Act 7:38). The “word of God” is not here the personal Logos; a phrase not distinctly and demonstrably adopted by any of the sacred writers except St John, who in the prologue to his Gospel calls Christ “the Word,” and in the Apocalypse “the Word of God.” The reference is to the written and spoken word of God, of the force and almost personality of which the writer shows so strong a sense. To him it is no dead utterance of the past, but a living power for ever. At the same time the expressions of this verse could hardly have been used by any one who was not familiar with the personification of the Logos, and St Clemens of Rome applies the words “a searcher of the thoughts and desires” to God. The passage closely resembles several which are found in Philo, though it applies the expressions in a different manner (see Introduction).

powerful] Lit., effective, energetic. The vital power shows itself in acts.
sharper than any two-edged sword] The same comparison is used by Isaiah (Isa 49:2) and St Paul (Eph 6:17) and St john (Rev 2:16; Rev 19:15). See too Wis 18:15-16, “Thine Almighty Word leaped down from heaven … and brought thine unfeigned commandment as a sharp sword.” Philo compares the Logos to the flaming sword of Eden (Gen 3:24) and “the fire and knife” (μἁχαιρα&#957 of Gen 22:6.

piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow] The meaning is not that the word of God divides the soul (the “natural” soul) by which we live from the spirit by which we reason and apprehend; but that it pierces not only the natural soul, but even to the Divine Spirit of man, and even to the joints and marrow (i.e. to the inmost depths) of these. Thus Euripides (Hippol. 527) speaks of the “marrow of the soul.” It is obvious that the writer does not mean anything very specific by each term of the enumeration, which produces its effect by the rhetorical fullness of the expressions. The ψυχὴ or animal soul is the sphere of that life which makes a man ψυχικὸς, i.e. carnal, unspiritual; he possesses this element of life (anima) in common with the beasts. It is only by virtue of his spirit (πνεῦμ&#945 that he has affinity with God.

a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart] These words are a practical explanation of those which have preceded. The phraseology is an evident reminiscence of Philo. Philo compares the Word to the flaming sword of Paradise; and calls the Word “the cutter of all things,” and says that “when whetted to the utmost sharpness it is incessantly dividing all sensuous things” (see Quis Rer. Div. Haeres & § 27; Opp. ed. Mangey i. 491, 503, 506). By enthumηseis is meant (strictly) our moral imaginations and desires; by ennoiai our intellectual thoughts: but the distinction of meaning is hardly kept (Mat 9:4, &c).
​

 

[MoreCoffee]

But aren't we straying from the thread's designated topic?

 

[ThatTrueLight]

It's from Hebrews although it's also from Ephesians 6 where Paul tells the Christian to put on the full armour of God so that he can stand against the wiles of the devil, even the rulers of this dark world.. serious deceptive business.

Anyway, the word of God is an integral part of the Armour of God, it's a Spiritual Sword that cuts to the chase instantly and in a living and powerful way.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

I think that we're proving with every post how on topic this actually is.

There's NO DOGMA or anything lacking in the Sword of the Spirit which IS the word of God which abides for ever.

 

[Albion]

Best post of yours I've read imo

The article that was reproduced was good, yes, but not the misuse of it. Obviously, it is not saying that any old theory that someone dreamed up long after Christ and which is absent of any backing in Scripture or Reason should be made into a dogma by any church.