Is Satan Real Or Something Else?

[WingsOfTheNeophyte]

if he was not a real being but was metaphorical for our concience how then would he stand before god and accuse us?

"The moon smiled down on the earth"

something like this can be found in old books

oh wait- the moon smiled it has to be a real being, only real beings can smile,


If the moon was not a real being but a personified piece of rock how could it smile upon us??

 

[KCDAD]

so you believe that satan is man's ego?

Actually the ID is the desires and impulses, the EGO justifies them, or attempts to, rationally.

 

[Finn88]

Ok, im not usually one to enter in on debates but i think i have something to add, so here goes:

Wether Satan is a physical, or purely spiritual being is irrelevant, the matter at hand is wether he is REAL or CONCEPTUAL (correct me if im wrong)
Assuming-and im aware i could be assuming alot-but assuming we agree that GOD is real, and that the bible is ultimately true, but open to interpretation, i would like to draw your attention once again to psycoticdoggy's comment on Revelation12
the full passage (headed the woman and the dragon in the NLT) talks about a woman pregnant and about to give birth to a boy who is to rule the nations. This is reffering to Mary, and the birth of Jesus, the passage goes on to talk about how the Dragon(Satan)tries and fails to snatch the child away...
YES, this is reffering to a spiritual battle going on in the heavenlies, YES it is a metaphor, however, I would note, that both Jesus, and Satan are reffered to in the same metaphor, it does not jump from literal to figerative mid-sentence (and we agree that jesus is real?). AND there is an obvious reason for using figurative language to describe these kinds of things! Think about it, Jesus used metaphors all the time to illustrate spiritual truths (faith like a mustard seed, God as a shepherd) Spiritual warfare is a pretty big thing for human minds to contemplate so the bible uses figurative languge to help us get our heads round it...THEREFORE dont palm evidence from the bible off because it is not litteral!

 

[Soul Searcher]

Ok, im not usually one to enter in on debates but i think i have something to add, so here goes:

Wether Satan is a physical, or purely spiritual being is irrelevant, the matter at hand is wether he is REAL or CONCEPTUAL (correct me if im wrong)
Assuming-and im aware i could be assuming alot-but assuming we agree that GOD is real, and that the bible is ultimately true, but open to interpretation, i would like to draw your attention once again to psycoticdoggy's comment on Revelation12
the full passage (headed the woman and the dragon in the NLT) talks about a woman pregnant and about to give birth to a boy who is to rule the nations. This is reffering to Mary, and the birth of Jesus, the passage goes on to talk about how the Dragon(Satan)tries and fails to snatch the child away...
YES, this is reffering to a spiritual battle going on in the heavenlies, YES it is a metaphor, however, I would note, that both Jesus, and Satan are reffered to in the same metaphor, it does not jump from literal to figerative mid-sentence (and we agree that jesus is real?). AND there is an obvious reason for using figurative language to describe these kinds of things! Think about it, Jesus used metaphors all the time to illustrate spiritual truths (faith like a mustard seed, God as a shepherd) Spiritual warfare is a pretty big thing for human minds to contemplate so the bible uses figurative languge to help us get our heads round it...THEREFORE dont palm evidence from the bible off because it is not litteral!

Have you considered that it was the king that sought to destroy the child (Jesus)? Have you considered that satan means adversary, anyone who was against the cause of Jesus could have been accurately called satan. And don't forget that Jesus referred to Peter as satan on one occasion.

I am not under the impression that satan is an individual.

 

[UBERROGO]

Most likely he is real but we run amok on our own with out his help.

 

[Finn88]

Yes i am aware of your view on the matter, i am merely expressing my view, if you care to listen?
U got a bible handy? look these up:
Job1:6&7-satan was roaming around earth, then questioned God
Luke4:1-13-Jesus was fully human and able to be tempted, but also fully God, so no evil could be found in him
Luke10:18-19-Jesus said he saw satan cast out of heaven
Revelation20v10-satan himself will be punished at the end of time(you cant punish a concept)


btw, when Jesus told Peter "get behind me Satan", he wasnt calling Peter the devil, but was illustrating that the words Peter spoke were evil. In the same way that when dealing with the demon possesed he addresed the demons themselves, not the possesed person, on this occasion Jesus was exerting his authority over the devil, who otherwise may have taken advantage of the situation!

I believe that satan is an actuall being, angel of light, prince of darkness, father of lies and he is hell-bent on getting between us and God! BUT is is not omnipotent, omnicient OR omnipresent and so cannot be RESPONSIBLE for all out sins, however, he will do what he can to use them against us! We are fallen men, SAVED by grace and the only tool he has against us is to guilt trip, confuse and distract us from that which is important.

The points you make are valid,and it is good that you question things-1Thessilonians5v21 I dont pretend to know all the answers, but this i do know:as a child of God, satan, whoever or whatever he is has no authority in my life, and in the name of Jesus he will flee from me!

 

[Soul Searcher]

Luke10:18-19-Jesus said he saw satan cast out of heaven

Just a little comment about this verse...

Luk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

First of all I think it is important to note that they were speaking of casting out devils, or at least that is what I get from it.

I think that this verse is not at all to be taken literally as meaning anything was cast from heaven. Rather the as lightning fall from heaven is a metaphor for speed, one that we still use today in a slightly altered form.

e.g. That car is fast as lightning.

The phrase beheld satan fall as lightning from heaven to me means that he/they was/were able to overcome the power of satan as fast as a flash of lightning comes down from the sky(heaven).

Surely it does not mean that satan as a literal lightning bolt fell from the literal home of God.

 

[BillR]

I think you have the right idea here. Satan seems to be a metaphor for that part of us that blinds us to the light of love and compassion, that tempts us to do for ourselves at the expense of our bother, that instills greed, fear, hate and such. Not a being but a part of each and every one of us.

In other words yes he is real.

 

[Soul Searcher]

In other words yes he is real.

He?

In the sense that greed is real, that hate is real, that cruelty is real yes satan is real.

 

[Finn88]

Soulsearcher,
i fear you have entirely missed my main points. That or you are choosing to ignore them in favour of reiterating your favourite line of "but thats just a metaphor" I feel i have allready sufficiently answered that point of debate in my first post.
Besides, your example of the "the car is was as fast as lightning" is in itself flawed in terms of argument. The term "like lightning" IS as you say, a metaphor for speed, however in both examples, that of the car, and that of Satan falling from heaven, it is used to describe an actual thing, which is going fast i.e.the metaphor is reffering to the SPEED and not the thing itself!

 

[Soul Searcher]

Soulsearcher,
i fear you have entirely missed my main points. That or you are choosing to ignore them in favour of reiterating your favourite line of "but thats just a metaphor" I feel i have allready sufficiently answered that point of debate in my first post.
Besides, your example of the "the car is was as fast as lightning" is in itself flawed in terms of argument. The term "like lightning" IS as you say, a metaphor for speed, however in both examples, that of the car, and that of Satan falling from heaven, it is used to describe an actual thing, which is going fast i.e.the metaphor is reffering to the SPEED and not the thing itself!

My point was that they were casting satan out of the sheep and he fled fast as lightning [as lightining falls from heaven] In other words they were gaining converts everywhere. Remember the word satan means advesary.

 

[DailyBlessings]

Soulsearcher,
i fear you have entirely missed my main points. That or you are choosing to ignore them in favour of reiterating your favourite line of "but thats just a metaphor" I feel i have allready sufficiently answered that point of debate in my first post.

Why "just" a metaphor? Can't a metaphor be important?

 

[WingsOfTheNeophyte]

I would like to pose a question, would the Bible lie to you if it was for your own good? If the Bible says Satan is real, this as forseen by the apostoles, (or jesus), as something that will make people work harder towards becoming better human beings, is it unresonable for you to be lied to for your own good, like a parent makes up a story for a little child because the child is not old enough to comprehend its full complexity

imagine God telling moses about subatomic particles, or the duality of light, its better for everyone living then to be told a nice and simple creation story, so why should this not be the case with Satan, a nice story for your own good, which will help you?

 

[HeyJupiter]

i think he is real

 

[DailyBlessings]

I would like to pose a question, would the Bible lie to you if it was for your own good? If the Bible says Satan is real, this as forseen by the apostoles, (or jesus), as something that will make people work harder towards becoming better human beings, is it unresonable for you to be lied to for your own good, like a parent makes up a story for a little child because the child is not old enough to comprehend its full complexity

Even assuming that the Bible does promote this notion of an evil anti-God, I think that accusing Scripture of benevolently lying is still a rather extreme way of putting it- our way of looking at the world is not markedly more complex than the way the Israelites saw it, but it is different. As such, the events of the Bible need not be considered a lie if they are not "literally" accurate- people are just applying different standards of truth than they did when it was written.

 

[WingsOfTheNeophyte]

I think that accusing Scripture of benevolently lying is still a rather extreme way of putting it-

Im sorry perhaps I should rephrase this,

our way of looking at the world is not markedly more complex than the way the Israelites saw it, but it is different.

In a way your way of looking at the world is more advanced, while the israelites had the eye for an eye still lawfull, you moved on to love your enemy and turn the other cheek, this is defiently more advanced, had God been explaining love your enemy to Abraham, or the early foundrs of Jeudaism, they would have found it hard to accept, advanced is complex, where before everything was more defined on law, Christianity allows the follows to choose based on love, it is definetly more complex

As such, the events of the Bible need not be considered a lie if they are not "literally" accurate- people are just applying different standards of truth than they did when it was written.

Ok, let me rephrase myself, pehaps it is a simplification of the complex truth, or a metaphor, to make understaning of the world easier

 

[BillR]

He?

In the sense that greed is real, that hate is real, that cruelty is real yes satan is real.

Yes he the fallen angel lucifer

 

[KCDAD]

Yes he the fallen angel lucifer

The King of Tyre? Or the Son of the morning star like in Revelation?

 

[Soul Searcher]

I think he means the king of babylon. Either that or he is talking about Miltons poem.

 

[WingsOfTheNeophyte]

Yes he the fallen angel lucifer

http://www.christianforums.com/t3934050-origins-of-lucifer.html

probably the best explanation on the forums on the name lucifer