Is Satan Lawless or a Legalist?

[martymonster]

Yes the way Satan is used by God to refine is well known.

But separating the wheat from the tares is not his job - that will be done by angels

Matt 13

The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. 40 As the weeds are collected and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness.…

Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

 

[Dkh587]

That already happened a long long time ago...... Back in Babylon and has been seeking to return to that ever since.

Yes, he has been given a sentence, back in the Garden and he's been trying to keep it from happening ever since.



Remember we all have been given free will and he must have also or he wouldn't have sinned against God 'fallen'. What he does is make us question God and make a choice to follow what he teaches us or to do our own things which leads to destruction.

He deceives and tempts but cannot make anyone do anything they don't want to do.

He does have rules he must follow as is written so he can't go beyond the boundaries set for him.
This can be seen to the greatest extent in Job.

I agree that we have free will - I don’t blame everything on ha’Satan. Just speaking on what he does - lead people away from God.

 

[timothyu]

lead people away from God.

And towards themselves. But then again that is our animal instinct to serve self in order to survive. We just add to it by going shopping for things that go beyond the essentials often invading others territory or space and taking what is not ours.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

One tends to remember the 'one liners' of one's mentors.

One of mine said that Satan was an "arch-legalist".

Yet he will be represented on earth as the "man of lawlessness".

Can he be both?

Thoughts please.

I figure he will be whatever he has to be to get his job done.

 

[PaulCyp1]

He is not just lawless, but infinitely anti-Law of God.

 

[Josheb]

Why do you think your post makes any sense?

You don't get to answer questions with questions if you're not willing to answer questions put to you.

Legalism is not lawlessness.

That is incorrect. The definition of "legalism" is "hyper-allegiance to the law." Scripturally and theologically it is adding to the law. It is lawlessness to add to God's law.

Deuteronomy 4:2
"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."​

Luke 11:37-46
"Now when He had spoken, a Pharisee asked Him to have lunch with him; and He went in, and reclined at the table. When the Pharisee saw it, he was surprised that He had not first ceremonially washed before the meal. But the Lord said to him, 'Now you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and of the platter; but inside of you, you are full of robbery and wickedness. You foolish ones, did not He who made the outside make the inside also? But give that which is within as charity, and then all things are clean for you. But woe to you Pharisees! For you pay tithe of mint and rue and every kind of garden herb, and yet disregard justice and the love of God; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. Woe to you Pharisees! For you love the chief seats in the synagogues and the respectful greetings in the market places. Woe to you! For you are like concealed tombs, and the people who walk over them are unaware of it.' One of the lawyers said to Him in reply, 'Teacher, when You say this, You insult us too.' But He said, 'Woe to you lawyers as well! For you weigh men down with burdens hard to bear, while you yourselves will not even touch the burdens with one of your fingers.'"​

Matthew 23:1-4
"Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. "They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger."​

Your statement and the thinking that begat that statement are incorrect; legalism is lawlessness.

If I am doing what is legal, I obey laws.

Nice move of the goal posts.

The matter at hand is not "If I am doing what is legal..." It is, "If what I do is legalism..."

If I am lawless, I do not obey laws.

Yep.

Lawlessness is not the same as observing righteous laws.

Non sequitur. At no point did I ever state, imply, or insinuate it was.

People using imperfect legal codes were not likely to arrive at perfection.

Another non sequitur. At no point did I state, imply, or insinutate any such thing.

For years slavery was legal. That did not make it right. Satan is allegory for one who is evil, or one who is doing evil. Once Jesus called Peter Satan (Matthew 16). Peter had made an inaccurate prediction.

Stop wasting my time.

Legalism is lawlessness because at its root is an addition to the law and that is lawlessness because one of the laws is not to add to the law. Furthermore, legalism in practice invariably misses the principle upon which the law is built and executed. The law not to muzzle the ox is referenced at least three times in the NT but not a single one of those examples has anything to do with oxen or grain. Fulfilling the letter of the law is not identical to fulfilling the principle.

Divisions between legalism and lawlessness are false dichotomies. Legalism is lawlessness.

 

[Pádraigín Ní Saorlaith]

Both and either. Satan will prey on us in whatever way he can in order to lead us away from God. In some cases he does this by telling us that whatever commands God has made couldn't possibly apply to us, or that those rules don't exist, or that a loving God wouldn't give us any rules. In other cases he does this by telling us that God's mercy and grace could never be extended to us, leading us to obsess over every command and worry that we will never be good enough for God to love.

When he does the first, he keeps us from obeying Christ out of love. When he does the latter, he keeps us from enjoying the wonderful freedom Christ offers us. In both scenarios, though, he is trying to keep us from experiencing and understanding God's love for us.

 

[Sketcher]

And those who lie are of his family. And that concerns me about our president and his proclivity to lie.

The President lies, the Democrats lie, the media lies. But that's not on topic.

 

[Semper-Fi]

Satan is the Lawless one.

Romans 7:12 (KJV) Wherefore the law is holy,
and the commandment holy, and just, and good.


"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way
which they call heresy, so worship I the God of
my fathers, believing all things which are written
in the law and in the prophets:"

 

[timothyu]

When he does the first, he keeps us from obeying Christ out of love. When he does the latter, he keeps us from enjoying the wonderful freedom Christ offers us. In both scenarios, though, he is trying to keep us from experiencing and understanding God's love for us.

And how are we not responsible for our actions?

 

[BobRyan]

One tends to remember the 'one liners' of one's mentors.

One of mine said that Satan was an "arch-legalist".

Yet he will be represented on earth as the "man of lawlessness".

Can he be both?

Thoughts please.

Satan is never accused of being "obedient". No wicked person is "obedient" according to Romans 8:4-8 rather it is said of the wicked "they do NOT submit to the Law Of God neither indeed CAN they"

And by contrast the saints "walk in the spirit" and they "fulfill the law of God" -

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[1213]

One tends to remember the 'one liners' of one's mentors.

One of mine said that Satan was an "arch-legalist".
...

I think he is not legalist. The highest commandment is love, I don’t see him endorsing it. He may use law, but not with its correct purpose. It is not really about judging, but about not doing bad things to others. For “legalists” it is always all about judging. That is why I would rather call them judgists.

 

[timothyu]

As man is also adversarial to the will of God (definition of satan), seeking to destroy anything of 'loving all as self' as it threatens gain at the expense of others, were we made in satan's image or has satan been made in ours?

 

[Carl Emerson]

As man is also adversarial to the will of God (definition of satan), seeking to destroy anything of 'loving all as self' as it threatens gain at the expense of others, were we made in satan's image or has satan been made in ours?

Neither.

 

[Hazelelponi]

One tends to remember the 'one liners' of one's mentors.

One of mine said that Satan was an "arch-legalist".

Yet he will be represented on earth as the "man of lawlessness".

Can he be both?

Thoughts please.

Antimonianism as well as legalism are both taught as heresies by the disciples and apostles, so both equate to " lawlessness" since both are against God's law (the Spiritual law).

 

[Carl Emerson]

Thanks for the many insightful comments on this topic.

 

[timothyu]

Neither.

Yet we do the same

 

[BobRyan]

I think he is not legalist. The highest commandment is love, I don’t see him endorsing it. He may use law, but not with its correct purpose.

Legalism is not a form of obedience -- it is a form of rebellion against the LAW of God - as the Bible points out - the Jews were known for breaking the Law of God and being legalists - see Romans 2.

 

[GenemZ]

One tends to remember the 'one liners' of one's mentors.

One of mine said that Satan was an "arch-legalist".

Yet he will be represented on earth as the "man of lawlessness".

Can he be both?

Thoughts please.

Its a paradox.. Yes... Satan uses the Law lawlessly.

 

[GenemZ]

Neither.

When Adam fell he was momentarily transformed into Satan's image.

From then on... Only those redeemed are restored to the image of God.

And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her seed;
He shall bruise you on the head,
And you shall bruise him on the heel.” Genesis 3:15​

The reason it says "your seed" is because when man fell, man took on the nature of Satan and fallen angels. "Like father, like son."

Many are under the impression that Satan has horns and red skin... waving a pitchfork in a menacing way. Yet, Satan had the most appealing personality. After all, Satan drew one third of the angels over to his side in preference to the Lord.

He has a very "pleasing" personality. That is why we need to gain knowledge of the Word for our protection. For, in Matthew 4 - when Satan appeared to Jesus - Satan suggested that Jesus take back up his powers of Deity and change the stones into bread. Keep in mind.. Jesus was starving. The Greek text indicates that Satan spoke to Jesus in a manner of a concerned friend. We don't get that in the English.

Too many of us yet have a wrong impression of Satan. He has a very appealing personality to mere human beings. Unsaved man had fallen into his image. His ugly side pops out when someone with truth is presented in resistance, when his powers to persuade have been squelched. Then his famous nasty side makes itself known.


grace and peace...